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Leftist Discussion Thread

Ye I understand that and my post was over simplistic. It's obviously a complex problem.
There's drugs and there's drugs.
There's lots of jobs where realisticly it doesn't matter if your high but there's lots of jobs where if you high you should be sacked.

I'm sure there's people on BL that are on drugs and working that should be sacked.

Ive been a functioning hard working adict for a large portion of my life so I know it czn be done.
 
Not sure of the statistics but there's prob a lot of people on minimum wage that get by. It wouldn't be easy but don't give you the right to rob others.
I think in UK you can get working tax credits so if your on low income you get a payment to top it up.
Also get help with rent
 
This is why I support a Universal Income. Years ago, I used to call it a Poetry Allowance. Everyone, even unpublishable poets should be entitled. The arts are the higherst thing one can do as far as self-realisation in an occupation, and they should be supported no matter what.
^What if they can't find work that pays enough to feed their family? Should they still be left in poverty and up to criminal devices even though the economy could be restructured so as to provide livable wage jobs? Almost everyone wants to work, it's a natural desire for all humans to have some degree of productivity; however, anyone making 7.25/hr won't be able to pay rent or put food on the table, so are we just gonna blame them for being used by corporations and sit back in our privileged jobs and laugh at them for turning to crime when they get evicted?

Do you use drugs, soso?
 
This is why I support a Universal Income. Years ago, I used to call it a Poetry Allowance. Everyone, even unpublishable poets should be entitled. The arts are the higherst thing one can do as far as self-realisation in an occupation, and they should be supported no matter what.
Interesting thought, can't say I disagree. No one should have to live on the streets.

I just started reading Knut Hamsun's Hunger earlier and it seems funny we're talking about the idea of feeding unpublished poets hahah.

Cream gravy Im not talking about cigs and coffee mate.
I know you're not, I was just trying to make a point.

Not sure of the statistics but there's prob a lot of people on minimum wage that get by. It wouldn't be easy but don't give you the right to rob others.
I think in UK you can get working tax credits so if your on low income you get a payment to top it up.
Also get help with rent

There aren't many getting by on minimum wage here though; maybe if you split a tiny place with multiple people i.e. young and without a family. I'm sure the UK has better tax credits for low income people.
We have food stamps here but those are seeing cuts soon I think.
I'm not saying anyone should turn to theft, but think about the reasons behind why someone would in fact turn to a life of crime.
 
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Should people be denied benefits for drinking coffe? Is that a serious question?

Ive said quite clearly that there's a lot of people happy to do no work and claim benefits, I don't think it should be an option to claim benefits and spend it on drugs with no intention of getting work.
I was very specific with what I said so don't try twisting it.
The system doesn't work too good though, where I live it's common for young girls to get pregnant so they can get a flat and claim maximum benefits.

UK Prob had better everything to be fair.
Better benefits better housing better health care etc

I know the reasons why people turn to crime, ive been to prison twice and after 20 years crack and heroin I know all about crime
 
I thought unpublished poets was a good example to show why everybody should be entitled to a universal allowance. If an employment agency or allowance doling agency asks what the unpublished (Amateur ) poet did all week, all he has to say is that he wrote poetry, and that he worked hard at it which would be the truth. Then when the case agent asks to see his work, he can just say, "it wasn't very good, so I burned most of it, and I'm embarrassed to show you the rest. I'll try again next weeK. So, the poet and everybody else who asks, can get the allowance this way for life. Any poems he sells are a bonus.
Interesting thought, can't say I disagree. No one should have to live on the streets.

I just started reading Knut Hamsun's Hunger earlier and it seems funny we're talking about the idea of feeding unpublished poets hahah.


I know you're not, I was just trying to make a point.



There aren't many getting by on minimum wage here though; maybe if you split a tiny place with multiple people i.e. young and without a family. I'm sure the UK has better tax credits for low income people.
We have food stamps here but those are seeing cuts soon I think.
I'm not saying anyone should turn to theft, but think about the reasons behind why someone would in fact turn to a life of crime.
 
i don't judge a plan on its sellablity to the right.
We're talking about people who buy dogshit like trump...
Honestly, fuck them. If we let the right dictate terms, society would be in a damn mess.

Which it obviously is already, so it's time we tried something radical to abolish preventable tragedies like starvation.
I think the point socko is making is that nobody ought to be homeless or destitute. We all deserve to be fed, clothed and sheltered.
 
Certainly. Guns are for cowards, mate.
Some fascist boneheads got busted with guns before a rally here a year or two back.

Fortunately they're not generally the pointest turds in the kitty litter, so to speak, and they go busted.
They got busted with bombs too.

So much for the "rational right" ;)
 
sj I don't think that's the point socko is making, socko is saying he would like a system where people could lie to easily obtain benefits. Do fuck all then lie to say they been busy working all week.
Get enough people leeching it and the system will fail because not enough working to earn the money to pay for the lazy cunts to sit around doing fuck all.
Would be nice if we could all just get free money but it don't work like that and never will.
 
You're getting too focused on the few people who would opt not to work. I think there are more people who need and deserve assistance regardless of the more parasitic folks. Policy should develop around the needs of many, not fears of the actions of a few.
 
if it werent for the parasites thers would be more funds available to help those who need it.
I never said there wasn't more people who deserve benefits thsn leeches.
I agree policy should develop around the needs of those that deserve it, that's why should be tougher on the bums that just bleed the system.
 
the problem with a system that basically depends on government to support them is the dependency. i think about the universal basic income idea and consider it valid to bring up, due to reality, but what happens - i bring this up because it's possible, not to just focus on the negative, but this is part of the foundation - if food runs out somehow? food, or other resources? does everyone still get stuff? or would a group that was pulling the weight decide to fuck the others? i know that i would certainly fuck others, if things became scarce. i would expect others to, as well. not necessarily just throw them to the wolves...i'd do what i could (what was practical), but really, the only way we deserve anything from anyone else, follows if-then; if i am valuable to these people, then maybe i deserve something from them. if it is of value to them that they helped me, for their own well-being in whatever way, then they deserve, for themselves, to do the right thing- whatever is right to them, but i do not think i deserve anything from a random stranger, other than, again, from their perspective- maybe they deserve to help me out so I don't rob their house (I understand), or so that eventually I might reciprocate, which is pretty much the only reason we should help anyone. even if you simply identify with "good", you don't do good for people so they can do bad. you do good- hoping that they pay it forward, to create a better circle, starting from you. i think this is where basic income has it right, and i think it should be tried, or something like it- some bringing up of people around us, should be done, so we have much less distance to fall, and so we can ascend. but we need to mind reality. if there is scarcity, those pulling the weight, and providing the most value, will have the most power to hold onto what few resources are there. the "parasites", and people who do work that can be discarded for a time- feasibly, will probably be cut off.

and this is one reason why i am wary of left-ideas. i value independence. i do understand that we have to have others around us. also with that, i think we are more set up for smaller bands. our instincts like altruism were geared less for the other tribe. in the time these things developed, most people you saw were probably a "cousin", and altruism benefited the group (which you share a lot of DNA with, in a similar configuration, so helping them is helping you, biologically - this can be said to be for all humans, but less the more distantly related). i certainly have more issue sharing resources with groups that would more naturally be in hostile competition with me. and in the case of scarcity, and no government, this is what i consider, because i know i'm not the only one who feels this way. no, it wouldn't be racial, either. but that would factor in. racial, religious, class, and perhaps simply proximity.

if it werent for the parasites thers would be more funds available to help those who need it.

I think with a healthier society, though, there would be fewer parasites. People don't like to sit on their ass all the time, especially when they find something that they are passionate about, or enjoy. I think the goal of this basic income is making less people disabled by circumstances... basically working to increase the health of society.
 
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That is such a pussy responce lol

If someone didn't work because they couldn't be arsed they shouldn't be given more money. If they then decide to comit crimes they should be arrested and charged accordingly.
if someone wants to do fuck all that's fine but why should they get paid for it?
Also I think anyone claiming benefits should be piss tested for drugs, fail 3 tests and suspend all payments.
If you fail a drugs test at work you get sacked so should be same for benefits.
Pussy response? Its the outcome of no social security safety net...
 
I thought unpublished poets was a good example to show why everybody should be entitled to a universal allowance. If an employment agency or allowance doling agency asks what the unpublished (Amateur ) poet did all week, all he has to say is that he wrote poetry, and that he worked hard at it which would be the truth. Then when the case agent asks to see his work, he can just say, "it wasn't very good, so I burned most of it, and I'm embarrassed to show you the rest. I'll try again next weeK. So, the poet and everybody else who asks, can get the allowance this way for life. Any poems he sells are a bonus.
I can't honestly tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Are you trying to make a case for, or against universal base income?
 
yes consumer.
I wouldn't give anyone anything so they dont rob me.
So what your saying is if we give thieving cunts enough money they will stop being thieving cunts?
Are you even from this planet?
Thieving cunts are also greedy cunts so they won't ever stop, they will take what you give and then take what they can steal too.
They're cunts!! Lol
 
ryan it's bo joke mate them antifa guys are pretty nasty. I saw one on the news the other day and he actually tipped a litter bin over and rolled it along the ground, I even think a bit of litter spilled out!
Pretty serious shit!!
 
I can't honestly tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Are you trying to make a case for, or against universal base income?

I'm trying to make a case for universal base income. The reason I used the unpublished poet example is to try to say that it should not matter if you are productive or not. There is a lot of judgement against welfare recipeints and their lifestyle and bad habits. Universal base income wouldn't be the same as welfare because it woudn't be meant to prod people into goign to work at McDonalds for a below subsistence income. Life isn't about productivivty or the bottom line or how many widgets you will consume in a given year. Everybody should be enttitled if they need it, no matter how they spend their time, and nobody should be homeless or hungry..
 
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