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If God/Gods are NOT real (Philosophical/Psychological Discussion)

SWIMsure

SWIMsure

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Before I get into it, this is NOT a discussion on if their is a God/Gods, if you want to take part in this and you are spiritual, for the sake of the discussion at hand, pretend as if God/Gods were just proven to be a hoax.


To open the discussion, I propose a very simple question:

"If God/Gods are not real, what can be said of the mentality of individuals, throughout history, that have claimed to be messengers, prophets, etc. of a God/Gods?"


My thoughts are that if God/Gods are not real in the slightest, that these individuals that have claimed to speak directly to "God" and carry his message are either entirely sadistic narcissists or the greatest con men to have walked the earth. I believe it would take a truly sick individual to make up the "stories" and "lore" that these historical figures have, if, in fact, God/Gods are not real, we very well maybe listening to the teachings of men with a mental illness or a serious "God complex." Although, the same argument can be made that, perhaps, these individuals were the purest of all humanity and sought to bring us into a better state of living and co-existence through the use of God/Gods and claimed messages, what do you think?
 
A lot of people don't actually speak to God, rather they interpret signs from God. It may be a flower blooming or a comet in the sky or a burnt piece of toast that looks like Kayne.

Everyone has voices in their head, unfortunately mine need subtitles
 
Speaking from the perspective of someone who would have been mislead by my own insanity I'd probably start a recovery service for people who had been fooled and needed mental help and just make money off it.

Seriously though I'd just check myself in to a psych ward before they all filled up.

Some people would Live in denial considering huge portions of the world population have a belief in a God/Gods. I think for some it may take God himself coming to tell them in person that he doesn't exist to get through...
 
SWIMsure said:
Before I get into it, this is NOT a discussion on if their is a God/Gods, if you want to take part in this and you are spiritual, for the sake of the discussion at hand, pretend as if God/Gods were just proven to be a hoax.


To open the discussion, I propose a very simple question:

"If God/Gods are not real, what can be said of the mentality of individuals, throughout history, that have claimed to be messengers, prophets, etc. of a God/Gods?"


My thoughts are that if God/Gods are not real in the slightest, that these individuals that have claimed to speak directly to "God" and carry his message are either entirely sadistic narcissists or the greatest con men to have walked the earth. I believe it would take a truly sick individual to make up the "stories" and "lore" that these historical figures have, if, in fact, God/Gods are not real, we very well maybe listening to the teachings of men with a mental illness or a serious "God complex." Although, the same argument can be made that, perhaps, these individuals were the purest of all humanity and sought to bring us into a better state of living and co-existence through the use of God/Gods and claimed messages, what do you think?
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IMO many people have experiences within their brains that they think are without and or don't really understand. From there you can believe all sorts of things.
 
SWIMsure said:
know the theory you speak of very well, I actually support it myself; the fact our brains and computers are greatly akin is a testament to this theory.
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Human brain and computers are nothing alike. Computers perform strictly logical operations and have no capacity for creative thought, or any kind of thought at all - they're very good at doing very complicated calculations with immense precision, but they can't come up with new ideas. Humans, on the other hand, are pretty bad at logical operations, requiring a lot of time and energy to complete relatively easy tasks (and they make a lot of mistakes in doing so); meanwhile, humans' most useful ability is to come up with new ideas using already known information, aka being creative and innovative.

The two are like polar opposites.
 
You go a little too far when you say nothing alike don't you think? For instance the human brain can compute. I like the fact that you noticed how poor most human brains are at being logical. Most people miss that.
 
More like the difference between analog and digital...?

I mean, computers have no emotions, nothing like an inner state that dramatically changes how a computer related to its environment.
 
I totally welcome AI. We've done this planet no great benefit. Maybe they shall do better. If AI deems us unworthy I bow to superior logic. Besides, they may be able to fix us.
 
Cosmic Trigger said:
You go a little too far when you say nothing alike don't you think? For instance the human brain can compute. I like the fact that you noticed how poor most human brains are at being logical. Most people miss that.
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I stand by my choice of words. It doesn't matter if both are able to perform similar operations, because for the most part, the accuracy and efficiency at which they do them are beyond comparison. It's like comparing a bicycle to a plane in terms of transportation - sure, a bike can get you from point A to point B faster than on foot, and so can a plane, but you also recognize the immense difference in efficiency (when talking about longer distances).

Human brains are emotionally-driven contraptions that use available knowledge/info to come up with new ideas on how to change their environment to their benefit; of course, a certain amount of logical thinking and calculation is required. Computers, on the other hand, can only perform logical operations, and have no intrinsic emotions or ability to think.
 
If Gods don't exist, then these people are delusional... which means they are believing in something that isn't real. I'm not sure how that automatically makes them narcissists though? People believe in wrong things all the time and then take actions that they think are good because of it. The mind on its own is very powerful and can create complex stories that are believable.

Human delusions in general are a root of much suffering in the world. Has nothing to do with God, just the general state of human psychology at our stage of evolution.
 
I believe in G-d. How it would make me a narcissist to believe that the world doesn't revolve around me, I haven't the foggiest.

Seriously though, I told myself before clicking that this would probably a "my Dad is totally lame" take on spiritual matters.

Just wish I'd paid attention.
 
^Well, you've added little better. :\

The belief in god, especially the Christian god, is anthropocentric. It implies that creation is for us, that we are special, yet humans have only been around for 200,000 years. What was god doing before humanity? You could say he was waiting for us to evolve. If so, His prescence seems superfluous.

Does your god care for the billions of non-human species that have existed? Is he their god too?
 
It's basically close to impossible for there to be a god, for who would have created that so called "god"? Humans just seem to have an intrinsic need for this silly "god" figure, when it's so much more complex than that or than they could ever conceive, hence their need.
 
RDP89 said:
It's basically close to impossible for there to be a god, for who would have created that so called "god"? Humans just seem to have an intrinsic need for this silly "god" figure, when it's so much more complex than that or than they could ever conceive, hence their need.
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Its almost biological I think. There's always an alpha male. Inasmuch as you could consider it 'silly', and I understand that, I also think its an idea that historically has been easily believed by many people. Its such a common belief that you could say that it is a sign of humanity, such as the prescence of cooking fires, rock art, burial. Evidence of some sort of spirituality in the fossil record is always from a human species. Even some of the customs of neanderthals and other hominid species seems spiritual, mainly burying the dead and some artistic/decorative pieces.

That only really applies to the more personified gods, such as Yahweh or Allah. Gods that are more conceptual such as some Hindu idea's make a bit more sense to me, as they are not really individual entities that are similar to humans, but something more like a field permeating reality. At least its harder to say that they are only projections of human figures onto the unknown.
 
rmikhail said:
Why does it have to be the christian god or the jewish god or the pagan god? It's almost as though you're doing it on purpose, clinging onto the limitations humans have imposed on the meaning of God. Especially people who insist on the explanatory power of science, you must realize that such an entity would exist outside of spacetime. Like do you actually think God would grow impatient in waiting for us to evolve?

Please, be serious. You don't have to practice blind faith, but don't purposely corrupt spiritual concepts to make yourself look clever.
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Nobody is disputing really the possibility of something like you describe.

The Gods we have made are corrupt and should not be followed. A God outside of spacetime seems to be dormant, either I'm too dumb to notice, he doesn't care, or he doesn't exist.

Or the off chance that he thinks this shit is perfect.

And could you please explain how an entity could exist outside of spacetime? Moreso, how he could impact us?
 
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