Spirits real or fake??

[Ziiirp]

I had an out of body - experience when performing improvised music on stage (mainly under the influence of a high dose of good sativa weed) in front of a like-minded audience. I think in extremely euphoric or traumatizing situations the energy envelope (of their own "spirit") expands and one temporarily exceeds physical boundaries while not completely leaving the body. That moment showed me, that the physical representation is just some sort of metaphoric representation of one's self, that can be bypassed under certain circumstances. I think collective focus (a group of spirits emits the same sort of waves, loosely formulated : is on the same vibe) catalyzes such trance-like experiences.

 

[JessFR]

Physics made a lot of advancements in the 19th and early 20th century but has sort of stalled. A lot of mysteries remain. It doesn't explain some major phenomena like dark matter, consciousNess, what happened before the big bang, undiscovered fundamental forces of nature, etc. I think it's possible many things are not accessible with current technology and the scientific method itself.

Science knows virtually nothing about consciousness. That healthy brains can host consciousness is about the only thing neuroscience knows. Scientists study the brain but not really consciousness itself.

Parapsychology fails but I think it is because
our methods are too primaries.

The history of science is the history of unanswered questions. Answering them all too often poses new questions. That's a success of science not a failure.

What happened before the big bang is widely considered in Astro physics to be a question unanswerable by direct inquery. We're more likely to find the answer via other advances in science if indeed finding an answer is possible.

Dark matter is just a proposed hereto unexplained matter who's existence is inferred by discrepancies in the expected mass of the universe. Simply calling it a failure of science to explain something does the subject an injustice. I can't speculate on undiscovered fundamental forces beyond the standard 4 without further information on what you're referring too.

And finally, you can't just use quantum physics as a vague semiplausible explanation for the paranormal and leave it at that. Nothing in quantum physics plausibly explains psychic abilities or ghosts. It is mearly a realm of physics below the nuclear realm wherein ordinary, more intuitive mechanics cease to be adequate to explain interactions. It doesn't mean it offers any explanations of the paranormal just because quantum physics defies our evolved ideas of intuitive classical mechaniscs and the paranormal also happens to defy our ideas of intuitive classical mechanics. That's a logical fallacy and erroneous comparison. Especially since it's purely conjecture that the quantum realm has significant impact or any impact whatsoever on the classical chemical interactions that govern our best understanding of neuroscience.

On that subject, yes there is still much to learn and much yet to be discovered about the seat of human consciousness and the mind body connection. But that doesn't invalidate the observations we have already made. Such as the complete lack of a plausible transmission and interpretation mechanism for mind reading, or ghostly consciousness's residing independent of their biochemical computer hardware, or any number of other claimed paranormal phenomena.

And before anyone mentions the often misunderstood quantum entanglement. Were anyone considering bringing it up. It is unfortunately the case that quantum entanglement can not be used to exchange information at speeds exceeding local speed of light. The phenomenon is one of probabilities. It requires classical communication to observe. And there's numerous other flaws with "quantum entanglement could somehow solve everything" line of thought, which has unfortunately been used time and again in my experience. And which demonstrates the wider issue I'm referring too. Which is using the logical fallacy of "the paranormal is unexplained and unintuitive and unknown, quantum mechanics is somewhat unexplained and unintuitive and unknown to me, therefore the latter couple potentially explain the former because I lack sufficient knowledge or comprehension to state definitively that it can NOT explain it".

Again, I wanna believe, I really do. But in the extraordinarily unlikely case that any paranormal phenomenon does exist. We need to first isolate at least one subject of the wider field we can show to exist. And then and only then can the qualitifed and competent in relevant fields of study propose testable hypothesise potentially leading to a potentially satisfactory theory"

 

[Foreigner]

Physics made a lot of advancements in the 19th and early 20th century but has sort of stalled. A lot of mysteries remain. It doesn't explain some major phenomena like dark matter, consciousNess, what happened before the big bang, undiscovered fundamental forces of nature, etc. I think it's possible many things are not accessible with current technology and the scientific method itself.

Science knows virtually nothing about consciousness. That healthy brains can host consciousness is about the only thing neuroscience knows. Scientists study the brain but not really consciousness itself.

Parapsychology fails but I think it is because
our methods are too primaries.

Science is a 2000 year old institution if we look at it in a broad sense, and it has evolved hugely over time. One sub-system replaces another. But if we look at it more discretely, in terms of the current manifestation of science, it's approx 200 years old. It's supposed to evolve... more so than the methodology, the epistemology. Most of our current theories on physics are still piggy-backing on Eistein. That was 100 years ago. We are overdue for that next quantum leap.

One thing I really hope to see is a move away from the current obsession with the gravitational model, and more investigation into an EM model.

 

[swilow]

I had an out of body - experience when performing improvised music on stage (mainly under the influence of a high dose of good sativa weed) in front of a like-minded audience. I think in extremely euphoric or traumatizing situations the energy envelope (of their own "spirit") expands and one temporarily exceeds physical boundaries while not completely leaving the body. That moment showed me, that the physical representation is just some sort of metaphoric representation of one's self, that can be bypassed under certain circumstances. I think collective focus (a group of spirits emits the same sort of waves, loosely formulated : is on the same vibe) catalyzes such trance-like experiences.

That's pretty cool. What sort of music were you playing and what sort of instrument allowed you to trance out and still play? I've had some really intersting moments playing hand drums and trying to get lost in the rhythm. I've had some success, much more failure though.

 

[Yourbaker]

And before anyone mentions the often misunderstood quantum entanglement. Were anyone considering bringing it up. It is unfortunately the case that quantum entanglement can not be used to exchange information at speeds exceeding local speed of light. The phenomenon is one of probabilities. It requires classical communication to observe. And there's numerous other flaws with "quantum entanglement could somehow solve everything" line of thought, which has unfortunately been used time and again in my experience. And which demonstrates the wider issue I'm referring too. Which is using the logical fallacy of "the paranormal is unexplained and unintuitive and unknown, quantum mechanics is somewhat unexplained and unintuitive and unknown to me, therefore the latter couple potentially explain the former because I lack sufficient knowledge or comprehension to state definitively that it can NOT explain it".

Again, I wanna believe, I really do. But in the extraordinarily unlikely case that any paranormal phenomenon does exist. We need to first isolate at least one subject of the wider field we can show to exist. And then and only then can the qualitifed and competent in relevant fields of study propose testable hypothesise potentially leading to a potentially satisfactory theory"

Really glad to see you cover quantum theory. My thoughts on what quantum entanglement actually points to is a flaw in our basic understanding rather than a solution for unexplained phenomena. If you look at the basic double slit experiment we find light acting as a 2D wave and a particular.... probably we just need to understand light or come up with a 3D Lightwave model.

Some day science may be able to detect Psi abilities but if they measure anywhere as easily as gravity waves we may be a long way off from finding them at all.

 

[Ziiirp]

That's pretty cool. What sort of music were you playing and what sort of instrument allowed you to trance out and still play? I've had some really intersting moments playing hand drums and trying to get lost in the rhythm. I've had some success, much more failure though.

The instrument were my vocal chords, it was a freestyle open mic rap session, sorry to disappoint you. And I have to correct myself, it was not a stage, it was a group of 5,6 people circulating the mic and interacting with each other, 40-50 people surrounding us. At that time, 8-10 years ago, me and some of the others were very advanced in what we were doing so it was not a bunch of beginners stumble some arrhythmic one-sillable nonsense. I think it is important that you have a few years practice with your instrument/device of choice. And the head (short-term memory and conscience) needs to be empty, without clouds, that inhibit one.

I guess any instrument works, if you reached a certain level (years of practice) and can interact with and react to others spontaneously. Traditional drums are a very good choice as long as there are comusicians you can create a polyrhythmic gestalt with. The holy grail for me would be to follow the formal system of Jazz theory (or other established and selfmade rule systems) while improvising with others. Freestyle rap is kind of a rudimentary crippled version of that, but the great thing about it, is, that it delivers clear semantics (the audience does not need to have a clue about any system) and is an exercise of both brain hemispheres. Pretty mind expanding if you master context, comedy, rhyme structure, rhythm and as a superlative hit the tones of chords in scale-step theory to create a resolution of a cadence.

David Gilmore stated, that he and the other band members consider themselves fatalists, meaning, that they never wrote anything themselves in their eyes, but were merely channeling ideas, that are present in the cosmos.

 

[JessFR]

Really glad to see you cover quantum theory. My thoughts on what quantum entanglement actually points to is a flaw in our basic understanding rather than a solution for unexplained phenomena. If you look at the basic double slit experiment we find light acting as a 2D wave and a particular.... probably we just need to understand light or come up with a 3D Lightwave model.

Some day science may be able to detect Psi abilities but if they measure anywhere as easily as gravity waves we may be a long way off from finding them at all.

There as quasi plausible hypothetical answers to explain anything. None of us is god so none of us can say with absolute iron clad certainty if something like telepathy or precognition exist. My disbelief is from a preponderance of the evidence. Not just the unlikelyhood of one aspect but so many at once. Like, sure, there could be other ways yet discovered that can function as channels of communication. But we also would have had to evolve naturally to make use of them, which also seems highly unlikely. Not because they wouldn't be advantageous, but because the nature of it looking at everything else doesn't add up.

If we evolved telepathy or psychic abilities, why are so rare when they would provide an evolutionary advantage, and why not strong enough to make for easier scientific establishment through testing. Many many animals have evolved to use their atmospheric medium as a channel of communication, speech, sonar communication, etc. How many animals evolved to communicate over radio waves naturally or similar? Because we're talking about something more on the latter.

There are so many subjects, some far harder to believe than others. I think anyone with a half decent science education will tend not to believe in most or any of them, or if they do.. Like how unlike most science minded people I believe in the soul, at least admit as I do, that I not only don't have any easy answers to prove my belief scientifically and agree the evidence is insufficient to say it stands up to scientific rigour. But don't call anyone close minded for not believing as I do. Because it's a mistake to think science inclined types are more close minded than more spiritual types. I think the reverse is true. Science minded people go on the evidence even when it's counter intuitive, hard to grasp or intuitively interpret. And they're willing to change their mind when confronted by new, better evidence. Whereas those that claim to be open minded in supposed spiritual or psychic phenoenon are in many ways the opposite.

Immediately jumping to ghosts or premonition or god to explain anything currently unexplained, and defending it in the face or more plasibile explanations, that's close minded. Not the other way around. It's close minded to believe in ghosts because you WANT too or because you don't LIKE where the evidence leads on an unbiased course. Richard dawkins, who I admit to not being a great fan of, came up with the term 'god of the gaps' to refer to people who see anything they can't currently explain or others can't and use it as proof or reason to believe in god. God in the gaps in knowledge. Almost everything may be explained but that remaining 1% must still be god if there is yet an answer.

I have my own versions, I call it the ghost of the gaps for spirits and the supernatural. And the gray of the gaps for aliens and alien related theories. Everything is proof of your preconceived notion by default until shown otherwise. I'm not directing this at anyone here in particular, just something I think on the issue and further elaborating how I see it.

 

[swilow]

God in the gaps in knowledge.

For me, it never makes more sense to invoke a causeless god over almost any other probability. God, in this context, becomes something with an ever decreasing sovereign kingdom. The only god that makes sense to me is a non-interventionist god, or one who can only interact with the universe via physical laws. There is little value in invoking something infinitely complex as a solution to a problem that is infinitely simpler. It really just pushes the questions back a few steps and doesn't provide answers.

 

[LandsUnknown]

One bit of evidence for the supernatural (even though it isn't proven) is that psychics have even been used to help solve murder cases. I could hardly believe it, but apparently it's actually true. I read about it on Wikipedia just now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic_detective! Still, it is true that it isn't proven, yet it would seem there would have to be some evidence for it given this. They obviously don't testify in court or anything like that, which is good because even as a believer in psychic abilities I wouldn't take anything they said all that seriously. While there probably are people that legitimately have abilities, I think there are a lot of fake "psychics". Those "hotlines" and all that are basically just scams, and the real psychics generally don't charge for their services, which is why scientists likely have a difficult time looking for them. The real psychics often don't announce themselves as psychic.

 

[Ziiirp]

For me, it never makes more sense to invoke a causeless god over almost any other probability. God, in this context, becomes something with an ever decreasing sovereign kingdom. The only god that makes sense to me is a non-interventionist god, or one who can only interact with the universe via physical laws. There is little value in invoking something infinitely complex as a solution to a problem that is infinitely simpler. It really just pushes the questions back a few steps and doesn't provide answers.

How can you be sure about the physics, when we have not even researched the field of quantum physics/string theory thoroughly ? How can you even dare to make the distinction between physics and metaphysics in that regard ? For me it is 50% knowledge of contemporary physics and 50% of more or less sober perceived events that either question the indoctrinated physical laws or not, which lead myself to believe, that something unexpressible is happening.

How can you differentiate between interventionism and non-interventionism. I personally make the distinction in highly emotional/euphoric/traumatic moments, which have an extraordinary component (in regards of magnitude) of a perceivable quality (thinking, feeling, motion). In those moments I only trust my intuition. Therefore it is also very difficult to speak about those events. I think everyone can relate to that problem. Hence the little amount of common sense in that regard.

Anyways I find it difficult to speak about those occurences in a foreign language, but since many people seem to have had similar experiences and/or have at least the desire to talk about such things, I guess our common ground should be, that those events happen and that there is some force, that is bigger than the sum of all of the interaction of the conscious beings (humans) on the planet/in the universe.

 

[swilow]

How can you be sure about the physics, when we have not even researched the field of quantum physics/string theory thoroughly ? How can you even dare to make the distinction between physics and metaphysics in that regard ?

I'm not entirely following you. But, there is no accepted supercession of natural law in recorded history, and looking back through the physical history of the universe, we see that it appears pretty much as it should had it always been obeying the laws it currently does. It appears that the discovered laws of physics are immutable and pretty much always have been. So, if god does intervene when people pray really hard for god to solve their own petty problems, I think it is through the laws of physics. Of course, we do not know everything about the laws of physics, so what this form of interventionism would be, I have no idea.

but since many people seem to have had similar experiences and/or have at least the desire to talk about such things, I guess our common ground should be, that those events happen and that there is some force, that is bigger than the sum of all of the interaction of the conscious beings (humans) on the planet/in the universe.

Simply because a large number of humans experience supernatural events does not tell us anything about the larger universe. The only thing I think we can say is that some human brains experience. The experiecnes of one species on one planet around one star in a relatively small galaxy in a huge universe does not tell us much about the universe in general. The only extrapolation I can make from human experiences is that the thing that makes us humans (our brain) is the common factor in all these occurrences. It tells me that humans have the unique capacity to derive meaning and insight from things with no causative agent or objective physical evidence. We live in a make believe world of money and culture and law and society. It does not explain anything to start mentioning spirits and gods when the explanation is probably right under you skull, where reality imagining is taking place.

 

[RDP89]

Great post, swillow! ^

 

[JessFR]

One bit of evidence for the supernatural (even though it isn't proven) is that psychics have even been used to help solve murder cases. I could hardly believe it, but apparently it's actually true. I read about it on Wikipedia just now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic_detective! Still, it is true that it isn't proven, yet it would seem there would have to be some evidence for it given this. They obviously don't testify in court or anything like that, which is good because even as a believer in psychic abilities I wouldn't take anything they said all that seriously. While there probably are people that legitimately have abilities, I think there are a lot of fake "psychics". Those "hotlines" and all that are basically just scams, and the real psychics generally don't charge for their services, which is why scientists likely have a difficult time looking for them. The real psychics often don't announce themselves as psychic.

I've looked into the psychic detective phenomenon and been unimpressed.

Most of the time, the psychics call the cops and offer clues rather than the other way around, most of them fail, or are shit thats obvious, a few turn out to be right, those last few get published, the others ignored.
Occasionally a believer cop goes against better policy and actually employs the services of psychics, and that has mostly failed too. Psychics have told relatives their missing loves ones were dead but then they turned up alive, and vice versa. They give generalizations that will be true a lot of the time anyway. And they skew the presentation to make it look far more legit than it is.

The funny thing is, even IF, and I mean IF, a handful of psychics were the real deal. their help to the cops would still not net back the resources lost combing through false leads and info provided by the fake psychics. So even if a handful were real, we'd still be better off without them getting involved at all.

May I ask how it is you believe real psychics don't go in for that profession, or announce themselves. Is that an educated guess, assumption, presumption or something more?

Something everyone could do with remembering.

The odds of SOMETHING extremely unlikely happening, is far far higher, than any one individual extremely unlikely thing happening. But only the one exception will be noted and remembered and used for proof by most people.

And secondly, even the unlikeliest of coincidences, on a long enough time scale, are virtually certain to happen.

So even with an entirely mundane world, probability dictates that a couple highly unusual coincidental events of an unspecified nature are LIKELY to happen to a lot of people in their lives. All events by themselves taken outsiide the wider context as seemingly implausible and unlikely enough for coincidence to be discounted. When in fact it's exactly the opposite, while whatever happened in particular happening to any given person in their life is very small, the likelyhood of ANYTHING that could be described as particularly unlikely to happen to any given person in their life, happening to any given person in their life, isn't all that unlikely at all. Shockingly unlikely coincidences are a statistical certainty. They proof the probabilities not disprove them. But you must have a good enough grasp on the system to see it, or you fall into the trap of being taken in by seemingly more plausible explanations that are anything but when looked at from the larger context.

 

[jammin83]

Psychics were studied by the CIA in what was dubbed the 'stargate project'. It became declassified in 1995. Studies were done and there was apparently more than some marginal success.

http://realitysandwich.com/158056/stargate_psychic_warriors_cia/

Ive read that the ability is rare but i have no doubts that this has been used as a weapon, or attempted to use as such, over the years. similar projects revolve around a lot of other 'paranormal phenomena' including telepathy. I would wager that they have had some success in that area as well without looking it up.

i believe there is an active agenda to 'cover up' or minimize how much of this information gets out to the public.

and yeah...spirits are real, as are angels, demons, etc. ghosts of the dead aren't real at least in the sense that its people's ghosts hanging around. more than a 100% confident on that much.

 

[LandsUnknown]

I've looked into the psychic detective phenomenon and been unimpressed.

I agree, to be honest, even as a believer, I wouldn't want to think that someone's "visions" have much of a place in something as serious as a murder trial. While I'm a believer, I'm still not fully convinced that all of them are right all the time. I think it would need to be more solidly proven before it should be used for something that requires that level of certainty. It just amazes me that there's even enough evidence for someone working on something so serious and important to even think about seeking out someone with psychic abilities! It also amazes me that apparently there have been times in which their visions were actually right!

I also have wondered if I might have a slight degree of psi abilities myself, but they're too weak to really be used for much of anything if I even have them at all (which I may not). I'm not sure if I do have them, but there have been little things that happened that have made me wonder. From time to time, it seems like I have dreams that may actually be predicting the future, and I also sometimes get these strange hunches about things that end up coming true. I don't really know though, sometimes it seems like it more than others. It seems like if I do have them, they kind of fluctuate in intensity and haven't been that reliable. Unfortunately, I'm definitely no Nostradamus though, at least not yet . My Mom has had a few weird experiences too but nothing that's really strong or necessarily fully verifiable.

Some of mine have been just so mundane, like there was once I had a dream one night where I was drinking this beer that's not even shipped to my state..... then I walked into the liquor store the next afternoon and there it was It was kind of cool, but then again I was just kind of like WTF, did I seriously have a premonition about a beer I mean if I'm going to predict something I'd rather have it be something a little more meaningful

 

[JessFR]

You only need glance at what is said on that link and see the sensationalist bias in the writing.

It puts what they claim in the case studies in suspicion. They could be stretching the truth, the CIA could have gotten it wrong in interpreting what they were told, errors could be anywhere. It proves nothing by itself.

Properly controlled studies could prove this as an unequivocal phenomenon beyond the dispute of anyone tomorrow if someone able to do it could get to someone independent to study it, and it could be on the internet, mirrored, copied and archived before anyone knew it had started. IF it were true.

And then there's quit question. If Project Stargate had such resounding results. Why on earth would they then shut it down and declassify it. As you would do with a project that lead to a dead end waste of money.

 

[JessFR]

I agree, to be honest, even as a believer, I wouldn't want to think that someone's "visions" have much of a place in something as serious as a murder trial. While I'm a believer, I'm still not fully convinced that all of them are right all the time. I think it would need to be more solidly proven before it should be used for something that requires that level of certainty. It just amazes me that there's even enough evidence for someone working on something so serious and important to even think about seeking out someone with psychic abilities! It also amazes me that apparently there have been times in which their visions were actually right!

Statistically, It would be unusual if there were no times their visions were right. Especially the more vague the visions are (They will be found near running water... as in everywhere!).

And like I said, mostly the psychics unsolicited contact the cops rather than the other way around. But yes, unsurprisingly cops buy into the all the same shit everyone else in the population tends to from time to time. It doesn't mean there was evidence it would work. It only means someone who OKed it thought it might work, for whatever reason. Not the same thing. People can think there's evidence for something where there's no evidence at all. Most people don't have the training or intuitive instincts that are good at knowing what is and isn't good evidence.

 

[LandsUnknown]

But yes, unsurprisingly cops buy into the all the same shit everyone else in the population tends to from time to time. It doesn't mean there was evidence it would work. It only means someone who OKed it thought it might work, for whatever reason.

That's true. Personally I agree that it's irresponsible to use psychics to work on such a serious matter. That is true about statistics, although it does seem like there are things that clearly go beyond chance. I've had a few experiences myself that seemed to fall into the clearly not chance category, but like I said it's really spotty and often very mundane. I certainly wouldn't see the stuff I've experienced as being particularly reliable for much of anything at all, let alone anything of any importance whatsoever. It's just that sometimes it seems like I'll dream about stuff or know about stuff that I couldn't possibly have known through normal means. I have to admit, it is quite strange sometimes though.

For instance, there was this one night where I had a dream that I walked into the store to buy this beer that isn't shipped to my area and never was. When I woke up, I thought very little of it as it was a completely mundane dream, though I never saw the stuff in any of my dreams before and I keep a dream journal. However, despite the stuff not being shipped into my area, I walked into the liquor store that day...... and there it was on the shelf! The guy at the place said the stuff wasn't shipped to the state and they might not get it again but they got overstock from a liquor store out of state and they'd have it for a little while anyways. So strange, yet so mundane. I mean I wished I would have had a prediction about something more meaningful than a beer Could it be chance? Possibly, yet it was quite strange to say the least. There have been a number of things like this that have happened, sometimes more so than others.

 

[JessFR]

That's true. Personally I agree that it's irresponsible to use psychics to work on such a serious matter. That is true about statistics, although it does seem like there are things that clearly go beyond chance. I've had a few experiences myself that seemed to fall into the clearly not chance category, but like I said it's really spotty and often very mundane. I certainly wouldn't see the stuff I've experienced as being particularly reliable for much of anything at all, let alone anything of any importance whatsoever. It's just that sometimes it seems like I'll dream about stuff or know about stuff that I couldn't possibly have known through normal means. I have to admit, it is quite strange sometimes though.

For instance, there was this one night where I had a dream that I walked into the store to buy this beer that isn't shipped to my area and never was. When I woke up, I thought very little of it as it was a completely mundane dream, though I never saw the stuff in any of my dreams before and I keep a dream journal. However, despite the stuff not being shipped into my area, I walked into the liquor store that day...... and there it was on the shelf! The guy at the place said the stuff wasn't shipped to the state and they might not get it again but they got overstock from a liquor store out of state and they'd have it for a little while anyways. So strange, yet so mundane. I mean I wished I would have had a prediction about something more meaningful than a beer Could it be chance? Possibly, yet it was quite strange to say the least. There have been a number of things like this that have happened, sometimes more so than others.

I've had countless examples like that happen to me too. But there are several important points to keep in mind.

First, working with the assumption that this is something paranormal.
1. It proves nothing more than what it proves, which is the existence of uncontrolled precognition of unspecified seemingly random subject matter. It says nothing on the subject of ghosts, or conventional psychic readings, it proves nothing in terms of anyone having control over the phenomenon (it could be precognitions are innately random and can't be selectively accessed.
2. It does not prove the existence of other claims of precognition beyond the kind you and I have supposedly observed.

Now, assuming it's not real.
1. It is possible for you to have thousands and thousands of dreams in your life, the odds of you experiencing a couple coincidences like this aren't as low as you'd might think.
2. Our brains are designed to find similarities, so we see these coincidences much more noticably than all the failures we ignore, and yet don't take as failure but mear dreams.
3. Our memories are not reliable, as a lucid dreamer, as am I, I don't have to tell you the importance of keeping a dream journal, tye brain has this habit of trying to scrub or memories of the dream soon as we wake up. In addition, our memories are shitty at accuracy at the best of times, so we can misremember coincidences so they become more unlikely than they really were by adding and finding new accurate details.
4. We include the accurate details validating the vision, yet ignore all the parts that were wrong.
5. It is also possible for there to be unknown information, perhaps you saw the beer somewhere else in relation to the store in the lead up to it showing up in stock. You pay no notice at the time, but our subconscious can still notice, and deliver it to our conscious mind via a bunch of ways. Dreams, apparently random thoughts, etc.

And this is just for this one example. Everywhere I look for cases with validated detailed information, I find these problems crop up. And it all leads to the phenomenon likely being entirely caused by human failurss of perception.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Richard dawkins, who I admit to not being a great fan of, came up with the term 'god of the gaps' to refer to people who see anything they can't currently explain or others can't and use it as proof or reason to believe in god. God in the gaps in knowledge. Almost everything may be explained but that remaining 1% must still be god if there is yet an answer.

Thanks for the post Jess. I want to address Richards statement. I really like the expression "God in the gaps," never heard of it before. I think it totally fits my own worldview so gotta thank him even though he might have thought it insulting. It's really important to realize that often there are profound truths to be found "in the gaps" that cannot be explained using previously known truths. If gaps can't be reconciled with known truths it tells us our understanding is incomplete and new truths will be discovered. These truths are often completely new concepts. Kurt Godel showed us beyond a doubt that there must exist true mathematical statements that cannot be proved. Some truths are beyond the reach of deductive logic. We adopt some of these anyways cause they fit our experience of truth and they unify our understanding in a higher-order way. For example, quantum mechanics is a set of axioms. We call it truth cause it is beautiful and it fits our observations not cause it follows linearly from what came before.

i see humans as more than computers manipulating and experiencing permutations of pre-existing truths. Humans are capable of experiencing and discovering truths beyond the scope of logical deduction. when these are found, they enrich our understanding immensely, close gaps, preserve established truths, and ultimately expose new and previously inconceivable gaps. Reality in the gaps might be a less controversial way to rephrase that without changing the meaning. I mean God and reality should converge if we allow them to so it's semantics really how we interpret our incomplete understandings. If something can't be explained then it's a great reason to believe in truths that are beyond our conception of truth. People are eager to call reality reality when its filled with gaps, but that isn't reality.