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is attempting moderation foolish?

Exactly. And shit, I didn't have it nearly that bad. Then again, I can't say I truly suffered any less (or more for that matter) than you or the next person. I don't believe suffering can be compared in such a way.
 
I think i can moderate my drug use.. but i just simply will not risk it.. the more the time passes the more i enjoy being sober .. the more the heroin dreams fade away.. the more my mind becomes sharp again.. ect. I can't believe its been over 3 yrs since i joined this site. glad i did because it really helped me thru tough times. i'm in a totally different mind set nowadays. It's simply not worth it. I know i still have a ways to go but i have 21 months clean off of Heroin. 27 months if i didn't get high on my birthday (didn't enjoy, felt guilty) if someone gave me free dope . i can honestly say i would flush it down the toilet.
 
I would say guilt for me is a big motivator. I drank mostly so every time I relapsed I felt unbelievable guilt and would now if I drank. When I go to the dr here at duke hospital they give you a list of things that are wrong with you and I have narcotic abuse, alcohol abuse and marijuana use in remission. I always laugh when I see that. But I still get pain meds and I do my very best to moderate. I'm not perfect but for most part I stick to my schedule. Moderating a drug you love just isn't possible in my eyes. Addiction means exactly what it says. I like what part of the book says in AA. It says if you think you can moderate and drink like a gentleman go to your nearest bar and give it a go. Most will know after that. I read about a program years ago called moderation management. Just silly. The founder ended up dying in a drunk driving accident. You never know when that last drink or shot of dope could take you from this world. I think you either use or you don't, simple as that!
 
I'm not sure I would want to live in a society where "marijuana use" is a medical subcategory of illness, but alas I already do... I also seem to live in a society that bans the terminology "misuse" when connected to "drug of addiction" and require "abuse" instead in all addiction related research/grant proposals, thanks to the connection between harm reduction and legalization perceived by the DEA and other government bodies controlling funding of said research grants... But alas I already do.
 
it was a month or two after the first 20mgs that i was back to dailey use. 30 days clean today. already thinking about how one day i might be able to take another 20mgs.
 
Foolish? No, any attempt is a step in the right direction, even if it's just baby steps. And personally, I do not know of any babies that have run marathons as soon as they learned to walk.
 
hydroazuanacaine said:
it was a month or two after the first 20mgs that i was back to dailey use. 30 days clean today. already thinking about how one day i might be able to take another 20mgs.
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if you don't mind me asking: were you ever on a bzd daily for over a year? if so, how did you handle coming off them? i understand there are many other stories on here regarding this but i like to hear as many as possible. some people seem to handle wd reasonably well.

my problem hasn't been falling back into daily use of my former doc (opioids) its been getting waaay too fucked up. since i take clonazepam daily, and usually don't feel like going through the hassle of looking for anything else unless i have been drinking, the combo of the three can result in some pretty stupid behavior. its innocent but the older you get the less acceptable and more humiliating it becomes.

(and yes im well aware that mixing certain drugs is dangerous)
 
I think I've tried every way there is to use "successfully." Years ago, I told me - as long as I wasn't slamming, it was ok, bec. you couldn't really get strung out smoking heroin, right? Fast forward a few decades. So after I finally, finally, had 2 little short years clean, after over 35 of using, I thought, well, I wasnt a pill freak, so that wouldnt be a problem. Despite all the people who had been there, done that, and shared their stories, I still had the big fat ego that told me I could be different. Man, that last one took me like 10 YEARS to quit... Sadder but wiser, I guess. In my opinion, there are as many ways to clean up as there are addicts, you know? I mean, we're a LOT alike, but we all come at this from our own place, with our own experiences. I think you did a good thing for yourself by just talking about it. I have found when I don't talk to anyone, I only talk to me and then I'm absolutely stuck with AWFUL advice. : )
 
I just made a thread regarding this and then I saw this one *sigh*. In short, yes, I think it is possible, but only under a certain set of circumstances which differ for everyone and every situation. For me, it's possible after a long enough period of abstinence to stop thinking about the drug in question. If I have to ask, the answer is probably no. I use drugs therapeutically for legitimate medical conditions, and also sometimes socially. It's rare that I use the substances I had problems with though. I have chronic but intermittent pain that can get very severe and I sometimes use opiates for that. I was also addicted to dxm and still use it a few times a year, but that's it. The thing is, I used to get intense cravings. Only when they stopped completely did I try using again. It was good but eh, idk, I need to have a reason to want to use it, like clearing my head or getting inside of it (same for all psychedelics though I was never addicted to any others). It's like I've reprogrammed my brain to get more pleasure from non drug sources, but somehow I've managed to curb my addiction issues almost entirely so behavioral addictions are no longer an issue either. If I used while actively craving drugs, it was a tease, and I relapsed every single time. It's pretty ironic, but only after I stop wanting certain drugs can I use them. I remember reading somewhere (totally paraphrasing here) that after a certain amount of time (about 2 months), the brain essentially collapses the dopamine pathways that form in response to a single pleasurable behavior, and then addiction to that particular thing is sort of "re-set" or something like that. With an addictive personality, there is usually an underlying problem with dopamine, so even if you manage to kick on addiction it'll be very easy to either relapse or find a different addiction. The solution is solving the underlying problem with dopamine. It has to do with the prefrontal cortex and the main symptom is lack of impulse control, which is why it's so easy to relapse or develop another addiction. Again, completely paraphrasing. Maybe someone else can weigh in on this. But it does make a lot of sense, the 2 month abstinence period definitely rings true for me and one thing that coincided with me getting over my addiction and impulse control issues was starting to treat my severe ADHD with stimulants, so dopamine upregulation might be the reason (I don't use stimulants daily but the positive effects last, so that's why I think it's dopamine upregulation).

TL;DR- yes, with a LOT of stipulations. Addiction is a disorder, substance addiction is just a symptom. You need to fix the disorder before you're safe to mess with drugs again. Even then, who knows? It's only been a few months, I have no idea if I'm permanently "fixed", I just know that I can use in moderation right now.
 
I think bltc mentioned the big fat ego. I think ego is a huge problem for addicts. For some it puts them in the ground. My ego wants to tell me I can handle all the shit I take. Most is for medical reasons, opiates, kolonopin. I admit my attempt to moderate has been difficult and only time I moderate is when I have too. Take dxm. I used it when I was pill sick and it worked great but I didn't stop. I'm an addict and acted like one. I'm suprised that shit hasn't turned me into an alien. I'm stuck. If I don't take opiates my pain soars to the roof and if I don't take my kolonopin I have nasty panic attacks so abstinence isn't in my future but I need to stop the dxm and is also dropped some acid this weekend. Fun but not what I had in mind. I think in one can, abstinence is key to overcoming addiction. Complete abstinence. I don't wanna be Denny downer but I just can't see addicts using every now and then. That just sounds crazy. Anyway, maybe one day I will find abstinence and be happier. I forgot after being clean for awhile how miserable drugs make you. Let me find serenity!!!
 
closeau said:
I think bltc mentioned the big fat ego. I think ego is a huge problem for addicts. For some it puts them in the ground. My ego wants to tell me I can handle all the shit I take. Most is for medical reasons, opiates, kolonopin. I admit my attempt to moderate has been difficult and only time I moderate is when I have too. Take dxm. I used it when I was pill sick and it worked great but I didn't stop. I'm an addict and acted like one. I'm suprised that shit hasn't turned me into an alien. I'm stuck. If I don't take opiates my pain soars to the roof and if I don't take my kolonopin I have nasty panic attacks so abstinence isn't in my future but I need to stop the dxm and is also dropped some acid this weekend. Fun but not what I had in mind. I think in one can, abstinence is key to overcoming addiction. Complete abstinence. I don't wanna be Denny downer but I just can't see addicts using every now and then. That just sounds crazy. Anyway, maybe one day I will find abstinence and be happier. I forgot after being clean for awhile how miserable drugs make you. Let me find serenity!!!
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I have a beer or a glass of one every once in a blue moon. I haven't lately because my liver is a traitor, but abstinence only works for some, not for all.
 
I used opiates and benzos to deal with my crippling anxiety and depression. Once I got some therapy that actually worked, and changed the life circumstances that I could - I found my cravings to dissipate almost entirely. There's been slips here and there but nothing like it once was and haven't had a dependancy to either opiates or benzos in 3 years now.

When I have used it hasn't even been that satisfying. It's usually a direct consequence of stress and me telling myself this or that will make me feel better but it's rather short lived and if anything pretty unfulfilling.

I still smoke weed on a near daily basis and enjoy psychedelics recreationally and/or therapeutically. I personally think there's a lot to be gained from these drugs if used responsibly.

Never been into booze and don't think I ever will.

When I first came off smack and valium people around me would freak out if they saw me drinking a beer.

It really does boil down to your state of mind and what you want in life. It's risky territory for sure - but not the end of the world.
 
Watch out with benzos they feel harmless but lost a good friend to em and everyone drinks on em cuz once you get that cross feeling it's hard. I consider benzos harder to deal with than meth mainly cuz withdrawls are everything not just the high but i've never withdrawled from benzos but a few friends got em outta nowhere and they could barley stand were sore and felt like shit hopefully you not that deep with em I quit driking with em atleast when my friend died be lucky it's not herion or crack those are horrible done h once but did Oxys for a bit got dope sick after about 2 months of usage and said fuck that I like codeine in my double if ima do any opioid my point is don't stress there's always something worse bit seriously watch out easy to die 2when drinking funny I did that blissful combo for a solid few months when I was about 15 then found out the dangers and fuck benzos make me half retarded kinda like dxm lol but man u feel swift but yeah your better off doing ice jk but maybe uppers instead of downers they are depressing and always have more cons
 
sigmond said:
if you don't mind me asking: were you ever on a bzd daily for over a year? if so, how did you handle coming off them?
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yes, years. i tapered very, very slowly. it was difficult but obviously not impossible. how bad was the physical withdrawal? too many factors to account for. i don't really want to rehash it. i'll sum it up by saying daily benzo use for an extended period of time should be avoided.


sorry to hear about your friend, shardhunter.
 
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SKL said:
Psychedelic drugs, difficult to abuse? I dunno about that. Tell that to a certain type of hippie scene follower or net.drugs.kid, lol. They're certainly not self-reinforcing and addictive in the same sense as "hard drugs" are, but the habit of and compulsion to regularly alter one's consciousness with them can be quite an immoderate addiction, with rather unfortunate consequences for the addict's relationship with reality...
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Yeah if I get 100 hits of acid they'll be gone in a week, it's possible to abuse psychedelics.
 
  • I have a really hard time moderating my opioid usage, with pretty much everything but codeine (cause I don't particularly like breaking out in hives) and tramadol.
  • I cannot handle cocaine or crack period, makes me rage like a maniac, if alcohol is involved stupid drunken maniac.
  • Meth/amp, well, I can take it or leave it. It has its uses in my life, but I'm not going out of my way fort it unless I'm biking across the country or something heroic like that.
  • LSD (and similar) type drugs I can only handle once in a blue moon, otherwise the come down just rips my soul apart. Learned that lesson a looooong time ago :)
  • With quality mushrooms, much the same with LSD, though I think they each have their own unique uses and qualities, both with their pros and cons.
  • Ketamine and DXM I can get a little carried away with, but not really because I'd become a zombie if I did and I know it.
  • MDMDA/MDA in rational amounts once a year, with a year here and there of monthly usage (as in once a month), saved my life.
  • Iboga, oh don't get me started. I'd eat my shit right now if I wasn't saving it for 10am %)
  • I need to watch the sugar intake, my mom's becoming diabetic, or nearly avoided a diagnosis and my dad was diagnosed a couple years ago poor guy, though he manages fine enough.
  • Caffeine, fuck, I shouldn't have had that coffee (but it was sooooooo good) at 18:00) last night. Stupid stupid stupid. Shitty sleep, AND I woke up at 4:30. Methadone withdrawals might have been mild but they sure are annoying as hell!


Boy this sure is starting to sound like a drug-o-logue. You get the idea. Moderation works for some, not for other. It works for some in some ways, for others in other ways.
 
Addiction is very individual. Some people are all or nothing and some people can eventually integrate DOCs back into their lives and not fall apart. I find if somebody repeatedly fails to moderate their DOC and it's an all or nothing binge each time it is probably best that they don't use.
 
I feel I'm in a place of moderation right now. I'm recovering alcoholic and opiate addict yet I take pain Meds for chronic pain and kolonopin for anxiety. No problem with the kolonopin but I have struggled at times with the opiates. I tried to get off them in Feb and lasted 5 days. My pain was unbearable. Luckily my pain dr took me back but I need the medicine I just need to control myself. I was in AA until I got dirty looks cause I was on Meds and not really sober. They took my colon out last year and my obsession to drink went out the door. No desire. Really makes things easier. I just gotta remind myself every morning I'm an addict and alcoholic and I can't use and my day is usually ok. With friends like toothpastedog how can you go wrong?
 
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