My brief history and an ongoing meth experience. Input appreciated, thanks.

[everway9]

Hey everyone. I hope your all doing good today.


I'd like to share an recent experience with meth and kratom.... and a few others.


Firstly. I'm not so good when it comes to describing things in detail and I struggle to express my thoughts and experiences through typing alone but I'll try my best and give it a go.


A brief history about me....


I'm 38, 5.4" 10 stone male and from the U.K. At about 24 after enduring a lot of stress in the work place I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorder and have continuously been on SSRI's since. I possess little will power and have used and abused various drugs both prescription and non-prescription since I was about 13.


It all started behind the 'smoking tree' at school when about 14 where I tried my first cigarette and I had tried alcohol during the occasional family meal at the local pub. I tried cannabis for the first time at 15 and I loved it. From then on it was a downward spiral staircase. I cant remember exactly what age I was but at about 17 I had tried meth (and goodness knows what else that they were mixed with). The cannabis went on from there with occasional (separate) binges of drinking and and meth. A little later I had used cocaine too. I have also abused benzo's and opiates (exept heroin) at various times too. By 30 I was regularly drinking and smoking cannabis with more binges of meth and cocaine. Two or so years later I had given up cannabis and had very rarely used meth and coke. The cannabis was causing high anxiety. So after that stopped and I felt much less anxious. Not long after I was introduced to KRATOM. All seemed pretty much ok until I had built up a high tolerance to the Kratom. Then I went back to alcohol which then got out of control. Very soon after this was the time when the alcohol usage really started to get out of control.


It was alcohol pretty much all day every day until 2 years ago I ended up in hospital with extreme abdominal pain. When they woke me up after a week long induced coma I was told of the damage the alcohol had done. Ruptured Spleen (Open splenectomy), Pancreatitis, Gall stones very nearly complete kidney failure. Eventually and only after being totally stupid, selfish and had had 12 more trips to the hospital was the time I stopped the alcohol.


Things were pretty stable then for a while. A little after I had some Kratom and that was ok for a while too. Obviously after a few months using my tolerance had built up again. After dabbling with the alcohol for a short time (yes, again) and God only knows how many years since my last Meth binge I only went and had some meth again didn't I. 3 grams acquired 1.8 used over nearly 36 hours with 2/3 via nasal 1/3 oral.


So here I am now writing to you guys recovering from the absolute worst crash I have ever had. It was awful. I'm not going to describe it because you probably all know only too well what a bad crash is like. All I used during comedown last night (actually 8 am) was 1 x 15mg Mirtazapine after doing a good few hours of tweekers research. After 30 minutes sleep finally and suddenly came.


Anyway 3 hours ago, still feeling very depressed, anxious and having rapid mood swings I remembered that I still have a substantial stock of my old faithful Mitragyna Speciosa.... yes, Kratom. So after taking roughly 3 grams of it I feel a 100 times better. I'm still getting mood swings, cold rushes and slight anxiety with mild depression, weak panic attacks and a body which feels like its rotting from inside out but the difference that only 3g of kratom has made is quite unexpected and very welcome indeed. And that with a very high kratom tolerance too.


Unfortunately after feeling much better and wrongly NOT disposing of the remaining Meth I have had a small line and to be completely honest will probably finish it off over the course of the next 12 hours or so. I'm hoping that when the inevitable crash starts that the kratom may help to smooth things out a little. On top of that I have the mirtazapine. I also have some gabapentin and trazodone for which I am looking to do some research into the possible advantages or disadvantages they may have. I'm not one for mixing drugs without doing thorough research.


3 days before I started this binge I had stopped taking my SSRI's knowing the risk of serotonin syndrome.


If anyone who reads this who has used mirtazapine, gabapentin, trazodone or kratom to ease the crash I would really love to hear what you have to say about your experiences ahead of my expected crash. I would be really grateful for any input of knowledge you may have.


Thanks so much for reading and huge thanks in advance.




I'd just like to add this: I know I have been extremely stupid and have made huge mistakes both past and present and regret those mistakes so very much. I'm not here to be judged. I just want to share my mistakes and experiences. Also the more documented experiences that there are on our forums, the more they go to help others. To anyone who has just started using or thinking about giving any non prescribed drugs a try just for fun then think very carefully before you do! But, if you do, please, please be so very careful and always do as much research as you can using trust worthy sources. I made the mistake and really.. it's not worth it, honestly. So please be safe. Thank you.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

It's not a mistake if you learn something from it. I hope this is a wake up call for you to stop using meth, benzos, and opiates or opiate-like drugs like Kratom all together, and binging on drugs like this. Good luck.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Echoing what's said above, you seem to have realised the mistakes, and that's half the battle imho. I would imagine most people who come to this particular forum have had similar revelations.

Interesting that you're still getting Kratom in the UK after the draconian substances bill that was passed a couple of months ago. Was that leftover stash? Probably a good thing that you can't order any more!

 

[everway9]

Hello. I thought that I had subscribed to my thread when I first posted it in the 'Homeless' section. Either I didn't or maybe the subscription was lost, cancelled or similar when it was moved here as I did not receive any emails notifying me of your replies so sorry for my late reply.

It's not a mistake if you learn something from it. I hope this is a wake up call for you to stop using meth, benzos, and opiates or opiate-like drugs like Kratom all together, and binging on drugs like this. Good luck.

Hello PriestTheyCalledHim and thanks for your input

Echoing what's said above, you seem to have realised the mistakes, and that's half the battle imho. I would imagine most people who come to this particular forum have had similar revelations.

Interesting that you're still getting Kratom in the UK after the draconian substances bill that was passed a couple of months ago. Was that leftover stash? Probably a good thing that you can't order any more!

Hello Muzda Jonxx and thank you too for your input.

In the long term it's probably not a good thing I did, but right now I'm glad that just before the blanket ban on psychoactive substances became active I ordered 4kg (1kg each of four strains) of Kratom.

One of my biggest problems is that I know exactly where, when and why I have made my mistakes. I know what goes on in my mind most of the time. (I think) I have had many sessions with councilors and psychologists and spoken to lots of people with their own mental illnesses and I have really learnt a lot. However it's all very well and good knowing it all up there but putting it all into practice is the difficult thing.

 

[everway9]

So to update you on the current situation.....

I feel so stupid and sad knowing I'm doing wrong yet still doing what I'm doing and typing it as it's pretty much happening.....

Since the time of posting my thread I have had 4 thin 1 inch lines. In between each I have had 3g of Kratom. I on the fence right now in terms of which way this is going to go. I feel quite comfortable right now but sense a dip in both mood and physical comfort.
Slight perspiration, minimal cold rushes every now and then from the back of my head down the sides of my back and sometimes further down my legs depending on how I'm sitting. Although not physically moving much I am tweaking rather a lot in my typing and its now been about 5 minutes since I started this reply and I'm starting to go on and on a bit as you can see.

My mind is constantly thinking..... do I have one more line and risk a bit of physical panic waves and mental anxiety but feeling better in between or do I resist the meth and have occasional sips from a measure of vodka then some kratom and then 1 x mirtazapine and 1 x trazodone, a bite to eat (yes i'm actually quite hungry and btw I have been keeping hydrated) then try to get to sleep.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to take the second option or at least I hope I am. I'm pretty sure that if I go on for another 24 hours then the withdrawal from my SSRI's will start to kick in. OMG... or is this maybe a good chance to stop the SSRI's get to the doctor and try a different anti depressant as obviously they haven't been working as well as I'd like them too. But I do also admit that I have to do my bit too. I shouldn't have to rely on them to keep me feeling normal.. should I?

OK my mouths starting to feel a bit dry so I'm going to have to make a decision now.

If someone has any advice regarding the SSRI's (Sertraline 200mg per day) I'd be grateful.

Thanks again for reading. I'll try to get back and update you soon.

 

[everway9]

I think my idea regarding having a small amount of alcohol, kratom etc is to try to overwhelm the meth effect so I have a reasonably uninterrupted sleep. At the same time I'm worried that it may make things not so nice. But if I dont I see myself being up for the next 24h till all the meth's gone and then having another maybe even more scary crash. I wish I could find that switch that is somewhere in my head.

 

[everway9]

Just after last update I made the decision to take no more meth and go with option 2 so I had a small sip of vodka and a quarter of a sandwich (cheese n pickle - my favorite.. mmm). 5 mins ago I had a normal gulp of vodka.... instant very brief mild panic attack onset followed by rapid mood swings and more mild panic attacks, heat rushes, head rushes and mildly sweaty cold hands. I'm now ok again but pretty scared nevertheless. More meth is now definitely out of the question.

02:10 Now I'm starting to experience small random cramps over my body especially in the arms. Had a half pint of nice cold milk.

02:15 Not surprisingly the alcohol has made me feel more sluggish even after only a small amount. I'm feeling pretty jumpy too. Something fell of a shelf behind me and my heart skipped a beat going to have another measure over the next 10 mins.

02:25 - Having mild vision tracers and still tweeking.. obviously. No adverse reactions after last sip of vodka. Definitely starting to slow down mentally though.

02:35 My body is feeling heavy but internally everything still feels like its going 100 mph. A hot flush just came over my head.

02:40 I'm going to sign off now. I will get more to eat, have 1 more splash of vodka and try to get comfortable in bed, I may have 1 x 15mg mirtazapine depending on anxiety/panic levels and if after 1 hour still no sleep 1 x 50mg trazodone. Not gonna touch the gabapentin because quite honestly I dont think it will be beneficial in anyway. So hopefully I will get off to sleep and more hopefully wake up in the morning.

Thanks again for reading... if anyone is.

Edit - No Kratom taken since 01:30.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Hello. I thought that I had subscribed to my thread when I first posted it in the 'Homeless' section. Either I didn't or maybe the subscription was lost, cancelled or similar when it was moved here as I did not receive any emails notifying me of your replies so sorry for my late reply.


Hello PriestTheyCalledHim and thanks for your input



Hello Muzda Jonxx and thank you too for your input.

In the long term it's probably not a good thing I did, but right now I'm glad that just before the blanket ban on psychoactive substances became active I ordered 4kg (1kg each of four strains) of Kratom.

One of my biggest problems is that I know exactly where, when and why I have made my mistakes. I know what goes on in my mind most of the time. (I think) I have had many sessions with councilors and psychologists and spoken to lots of people with their own mental illnesses and I have really learnt a lot. However it's all very well and good knowing it all up there but putting it all into practice is the difficult thing.

Hiya!

I know what you mean. I must have beaten myself up 10 thousand times over the idiotic things I've done to myself, pain I've caused my family etc etc etc. My late mum once said something that haunts me to this day. She said "T**, I don't know how you live with what you've done". She was a very clever lady who could say one succinct sentence to kick you right up the ass and make you think.

Anyway, that and many other experiences haunt me, and there ain't no forgetting them. For me to reach some semblance of peace, I came to the following conclusions:

a) Some of these drugs are bigger than ANY of us. Doesn't matter who takes them, most everyone will end up in the same shitty house sooner or later. I don't know anything about meth, but from what I understand that's right up there with your cracks, opiates and benzos.

b) The more time passes straight and sober, the better everything becomes. Get some positive memories in that head of yours!

c) A great drug councillor can be a great help. After my most spectacular druggy trainwreck, which ended me up in intensive care, that was when I truly realised just what I was turning my life into. It was really hard wrapping my head round exactly what I'd done, so I ended up being referred to a psych. They didn't specialise in substance abuse though, so weren't much help to me.

I then started attending a substance addiction charity where I live, they got me to see their own psych who knew all about drug abuse. The bloke turned out to be an absolute legend, never judging and helping me really get some perspective to start building my old life back up. I thank that man from the bottom of my heart, I think that was the turning point towards really getting better and changing my ways. It still took another 8 years (and I'm still making mistakes now, I just rattled of a medium pod tea habit for the hundredth time).

I guess that might sound like I haven't really come along anywhere, but this time 10 years ago I would hammer whatever drug you threw in front of me, at crazy dangerous doses. I'd somehow getmyself into London to work, but that didn't help because I was a high flyer in Soho, so we all snorted coke all day long. I had this fallacy that I was somehow invulnerable, up until I nearly died. Now, for the first time since last November I'm squeaky clean again. Fingers crossed that this is the time I stay that way, it's got to happen sooner or later.

I hope that ramble helps in some way, I think the gem you can take from that is to get to a place that knows substance abuse inside out and get speaking to a councillor there.

Just after last update I made the decision to take no more meth and go with option 2 so I had a small sip of vodka and a quarter of a sandwich (cheese n pickle - my favorite.. mmm). 5 mins ago I had a normal gulp of vodka.... instant very brief mild panic attack onset followed by rapid mood swings and more mild panic attacks, heat rushes, head rushes and mildly sweaty cold hands. I'm now ok again but pretty scared nevertheless. More meth is now definitely out of the question.

02:10 Now I'm starting to experience small random cramps over my body especially in the arms. Had a half pint of nice cold milk.

02:15 Not surprisingly the alcohol has made me feel more sluggish even after only a small amount. I'm feeling pretty jumpy too. Something fell of a shelf behind me and my heart skipped a beat going to have another measure over the next 10 mins.

02:25 - Having mild vision tracers and still tweeking.. obviously. No adverse reactions after last sip of vodka. Definitely starting to slow down mentally though.

02:35 My body is feeling heavy but internally everything still feels like its going 100 mph. A hot flush just came over my head.

02:40 I'm going to sign off now. I will get more to eat, have 1 more splash of vodka and try to get comfortable in bed, I may have 1 x 15mg mirtazapine depending on anxiety/panic levels and if after 1 hour still no sleep 1 x 50mg trazodone. Not gonna touch the gabapentin because quite honestly I dont think it will be beneficial in anyway. So hopefully I will get off to sleep and more hopefully wake up in the morning.

Thanks again for reading... if anyone is.

Edit - No Kratom taken since 01:30.

Good man! I don't know that I would try to quit meth and kratom at the same time. One problem after the other, was what I was always told.

How you doing today?

 

[everway9]

Hello Muzda.

I woke 10 mins ago so I'm still half asleep so forgive me for not saying much right now.

Thanks for the great info and very well done for being clean! It does take a lot of strength in every way.

I'm feeling very sad right now and have shed a few tears already. I did expect to feel rough but maybe not as bad as I am. It could be coupled with stopping my SSRI's. I'm probably going to have some Kratom today hoping that will help a little short term and I will start my SSRI's again. Gonna try hard to stay clear of the meth and alcohol and see how the next couple of days go.

I'd love to give more info but really I'm not feeling up to it right now as I'm sure you can understand.

I'll come back soon to update.

Thanks again.

 

[everway9]

I just did something I have never done before.. ever. I flushed the remaining Meth down the toilet! Now I dont know what to do.. I'm either going to call the doctor or talk to someone at FRANK and ask where to go from here regarding medication.

What do you think? which one? or someone else even?

Thanks.

 

[everway9]

Hi again. I dont think I explained why I wanted to talk to someone about medication.

I have been wondering for a while whether my current SSRI's are working as well as they used too. And now that I have been 4 days without them I was thinking that now may be a good time to change to some other SSRI or go onto something completely different.

Today after feeling pretty rubbish for the first couple of hours I took some Kratom and since I have used so little Kratom over the last 3 days I decided to replace that for some alcohol. I'd like to keep the Kratom to a minimum and try to respect it instead of abuse it.

I talked to my GP who made me realise that thinking about changing my meds was a hasty decision to make. She advised that I start taking them again but half the amount so that in a few days after I have had time to put this meth binge behind me and I still want to change then I will hopefully get less withdrawal (any withdrawal symptoms I may have been having already will have probably been masked by the effects of the meth).

Anyway I'm feeling that I dont really know what to do at the moment so I'm going to take her advice and give myself a few days to let things calm down and have a think.

 

[everway9]

My aim... Try my hardest to keep things to a minimum and try to stop. Easier said than done but I'm going to give it one hell of a good go!

 

[Moreaux]

A lot going on lol. First - kudos for flushing the meth - just don't go get more. Regarding the SSRI's. Some people do build a tolerance, thus it feels like they're not working as well as they used to. The doctor often will increase the dose, but only for so long as eventually you reach the max dose, and then it's time to switch meds. It's much harder to SSRI's at the max dose than it is at lower doses - I know because I was taking the max recommend dose of Zoloft for four years, and decided to quit cold turkey - not fun. Regardless of what you decide to do, I think you should discuss it with your doctor before doing anything. If I were I your position (I kind of was - just different drugs), I would be honest about all the substances you are using. Drugs do affect the effectiveness of medications, and they are a big factor in how you feel. If you quit the SSRI and are not going to switch to a different medication do a taper in lieu of cold turkey.

As far as the kratom, personally I wouldn't be in a big rush to get off that at least until you are over meth and feeling better and know what you're doing with the SSRI. If you're going to totally quit the medication and do a taper, stay on the kratom. If you're going to switch meds, make certain you tell your doctor about the kratom, and try to get off the kratom when you start the new med. If you've been taking kratom for a long time do a taper as you will most likely experience withdrawal and a taper will decrease the severity.

Alcohol and SSRI's do not mix well. Many people find that SSRI's worsen alcoholism and cause impossible cravings. I used to be a heavy drinker when I was younger. When I started taking Zoloft and drinking I became a raging alcoholic. I literally could not control myself, and it was not a progressive increase in drinking over time, it was instant. I remained a terrible alcoholic for ten years, spent a fortune on treatments etc, including inpatient rehab twice. If you query SSRI's and alcoholism you will read 100's of similar accounts.

Alcohol does not need to be in your recovery equation. If you keep drinking while you get sober it's very possible to replace one addiction for another, in this case alcoholism.

Good luck on your journey - let us know if you have questions or need to vent. I wish you the best!

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Methamphetamine is possibly the worst drug you can consume if you have "little willpower".

I don't consider myself to have a particularly addictive personality (despite being a polydrug user and avid fan of various narcotics). But even my willpower dissipates if there's meth around. It went up my arms or up my nose continuously until there was none left. I'd recommend not getting any more.

Methamphetamine is contraindicated for depression, too. Regular usage ultimately makes depression worse. Drugs like mirtazapine or trazodone are probably worthless for a meth comedown...what you need is some diazepam, or a similar drug. Drinking large amounts of alcohol works in a pinch, but it's definitely a last resort and I would highly recommend against replacing whatever substance use issue you're dealing with booze...that'd be possibly the worst outcome, actually.

SSRIs are less than useless in my experience/opinion. But hey, if they work for you than that's great.

 

[Muzda Jonxx]

Hi again. I dont think I explained why I wanted to talk to someone about medication.

I have been wondering for a while whether my current SSRI's are working as well as they used too. And now that I have been 4 days without them I was thinking that now may be a good time to change to some other SSRI or go onto something completely different.

Today after feeling pretty rubbish for the first couple of hours I took some Kratom and since I have used so little Kratom over the last 3 days I decided to replace that for some alcohol. I'd like to keep the Kratom to a minimum and try to respect it instead of abuse it.

I talked to my GP who made me realise that thinking about changing my meds was a hasty decision to make. She advised that I start taking them again but half the amount so that in a few days after I have had time to put this meth binge behind me and I still want to change then I will hopefully get less withdrawal (any withdrawal symptoms I may have been having already will have probably been masked by the effects of the meth).

Anyway I'm feeling that I dont really know what to do at the moment so I'm going to take her advice and give myself a few days to let things calm down and have a think.

Fantastic that you flushed the meth! Go on wit' ya bad self..

Regarding SSRIs, I've tried most of them, gradually going up in strength until I was on Effexor (god awful combined SSRI/SNRI). The only difference I noticed on them was that some of them made me feel really cracked out (Zoloft in particular, that shit was HORRIBLE). Other than cracked out feeling, they did nothing to help my depression / anxiety.

The docs switched me over to 30mg of an older tricyclic AD called Mirtazapine, and that stuff rocks my world. No depression, no anxiety, and it's an good sedative so I take it before bed and sleep like a baby. Just my experience - everybody's different, but might be worth speaking to your doc about. The only negative side effect is it's made me put on a fair bit of weight. Although that might just be middle age spread starting, I'm not really sure.

 

[everway9]

Thanks to all for your replies and sorry for the late reply.

Since my last post I have been feeling very very depressed and anxious. To be expected obviously. I did call my doctoe and after much thinking decided to go back on my SSRI's but only half the dose. For the end of Thursday I used Vodka mainly to help for the rest of the night and took my trazodone and mirtazapine and eventually got to sleep.

Yesterday when I woke I instantly was having anxiety attacks and feeling very sad. I had no alcohol left which was the plan after finishing it the previous night. So I used only a very small amount of kratom and stuck it out for the rest of the day and eventually started to feel a little more relaxed in the late evening when I then took my Trazodone and Mirtazapine then finally got to sleep this morning at about 3:30.

So today I after some pretty surreal dreams (lol - Mirtazapine) a woke 2 hours ago (16:30). I felt a little better but still depressed and very tired but the anxiety was minimal. I took some kratom and within half an hour I was feeling much better. 90 minutes later here I am feeling just about ok although still very tired and with little motivation.

I think I'm going to stick with the SSRI's for now and let things settle down. I'll see where I am in a weeks time and go from there.

As for the rest.... Meth and Alcohol are completely out of the question, kratom is staying although minimal usage. Trazodone and Mirtazapine are also staying.

I'm extremely grateful for all your replies, good will messages and useful info It's really appreciated. Thanks