Want to get off 150MG Methadone no hospital will accept me? HELLP!!!

[cj]

There is a very good reason why competent rehabs wont accept you until the methadone dose is tapered down. Its hard to benefit from rehab when your in severe withdrawal. The point of rehab is to analyze your behavior from a sober normal state. If your withdrawing to the point of wanting to kill yourself then your not going to get much out of it You would also need a level of medical care most rehabs don't offer on site. For instance you may need an IV to replace fluids and electrolytes lost from vomiting. You may not be able t keep down oral medication so you might need IV for that. Basically they don't want a situation where they are running you back and fourth to a hospital. They also don't want the liability involved.

So I think your best option is a taper. 5mg a week will be mildly uncomfortable but you will be ready to jump off in 6 months or so. That's going to be your best bet

 

[Jabberwocky]

Agreed. There is not real feasable, safe and quick medical detox from 150mg methadone. Why the rush to get off it OP? If you are rushing to get off it because you are going to jail or on vacation where you cant dose, then taper down as low as you can, jump on Suboxone for like a month - that is probably the quickest way to do it.

 

[manboychef]

There is a very good reason why competent rehabs wont accept you until the methadone dose is tapered down. Its hard to benefit from rehab when your in severe withdrawal. The point of rehab is to analyze your behavior from a sober normal state. If your withdrawing to the point of wanting to kill yourself then your not going to get much out of it You would also need a level of medical care most rehabs don't offer on site. For instance you may need an IV to replace fluids and electrolytes lost from vomiting. You may not be able t keep down oral medication so you might need IV for that.

Basically they don't want a situation where they are running you back and fourth to a hospital. They also don't want the liability involved.
So I think your best option is a taper. 5mg a week will be mildly uncomfortable but you will be ready to jump off in 6 months or so. That's going to be your best bet

One of the things that also go along with having someone detoxing hard in rehab is that it takes resources and staff away from other patients. It also is hard for patients in early recovery to deal with someone in that way and still focus on themselves. The other problem with the detox from that dose in rehab is most detoxes that are attached to rehabs only have protocols for a rapid seven day detox.

Agreed. There is not real feasable, safe and quick medical detox from 150mg methadone. Why the rush to get off it OP? If you are rushing to get off it because you are going to jail or on vacation where you cant dose, then taper down as low as you can, jump on Suboxone for like a month - that is probably the quickest way to do it.

This is so true. You are going to need to take your time with this if you are going to be safe. Honestly, if I was in the position of going to jail on that dose of methadone, I would go on the run.

 

[NIKKI83]

Thanks for the detailed response.
I'm actually writing this for my wife.
Are you taking any meds or seeking treatment for those?
She filled 100 pills of Colonzpam last month, she said she didn't take them all.

So what does everyone suggest for a slow taper?
2MG PER WEEK?
2.5MG PER WEEK?
2MG PER MONTH?
5MG PER MONTH?
10MG PER MONTH?

She obviously needs to do the work outside of impatient first it seems before she can go in. We're def getting a a Dr that specializes in drug abuse.

I would find a therapist that has a specialty in co-occurring mental disorders. Most addicts are self medicating a larger problem innate to them. From the time I was a youth I was medicating OCD that I didn't understand (I was under the impression that everyone's brains and mentality were like mine) and depression which lead me into a life of addiction that lasted until I was in my thirties. I was diagnosed with OCD at eighteen at my first rehab stay. That gave me the diagnosis but they did nothing to help me treat it. Now I take part in CBT. Sometimes it is embarrassing but I still get out this worksheet my therapist gave me when I have an irrational intrusive thought and it causes an intense fear response in me. The worksheet is helpful because it takes away a bit of the power the original though has and sheds light on why having that fight or flight response is not helpful. The rehab that worked for me was based on behavioral change and therapy. Yes there were twelve step meetings involved for those that they help, but what worked for me the most was being away from my drug of choice and having a licensed therapist work on a diagnosis and treatment plan for my mental disorders.

You say you have anxiety and depression. Are you taking any meds or seeking treatment for those? If you haven't been these will always lead you back to active use. Once your brain has learned that it gets relief instantly by using it is hard to break that cycle. It is necessary to break that cycle before you walk out of rehab. It is actually better to start working on it before you leave for rehab as most rehabs (if you check out the stickied {red threads at the top of the thread list} about rehabs you will see most have too many patients to spend enough individual time with each).

Kudos on starting the tapering process. It will make things quite a lot easier.

I went to lifestream (read more about lifestream) and the services they offered were amazing. I will send that email today to my counselor. Check the website for lifestream out. I have been to rehabs in new york, pennsylvania and florida. This was the best rehab I went to, and the fact they offer continuing care after rehab (lets face it. The door to rehab is not magical. You don't walk in broken, and 28 days later you walk out fixed.). They also focus on the mental health aspect of recovery. There are only 16 beds which with two licensed therapists means only eight per therapist. You meet for an hour once a week. The therapists lead the groups as well.

When seeking treatment you must ask these questions.
1.How many beds are there. The higher the number the less individual treatment, and the more shenanigans that will happen. This is also indicative of a money mill rehab.
2.Ask about how many therapists they have and their credentials. If they won't tell you then they probably don't have them.
3.Ask if it is abstinence based, or are narcotic psychiatric meds available. If you take benzos this is particularly important. They will pretty much drop you in dose so quickly that you have dangerous withdrawals.
4. Ask if they offer family counseling. Addiction and alcoholism are family diseases. Just as you, Nikki, need to recognize and change your ways, so to does your closest family in order to start the healing process.
5. Ask what services they offer in addition to substance abuse treatment. Do they have guided meditation? Do they have seminars about life skills? Do they have acupuncture? etc..

Remember; If it seems too good to be true. Chances are it is. Ask around and get a good idea of what is available in your area.

 

[neversickanymore]

Thanks everyone. And yes that is the ideal situation.
Impatient
Hospital
That will assist taper but a bit quicker than a clinic
Meanwhile assist in mental health
but where is this magical place?

I don't think you will find any inpatient place that will take you. Dropping ten mg every two weeks from 150 means it will take you almost eight months if you do it in fives it will take 16 months. Your clinic should be able to help you with a taper. If they suggest a more rapid taper let them know you would rather drop your dose by 5/10 every two weeks until your off.

You will still likely go through some withdrawals and PAWS when you reach 0. Methadone is a very significant chemical. Its a triple opiate agonist, Its an nmda antagonist and its both a serotonin and adrenal rebuke inhibitor. Because of the broad spectrum of manipulation methadone does it scrambles the system pretty good so it takes months for the system to adjust back. At your dose, even with a long slow tapper, you will likely face PAWS for months. The good news is in under a year from your last dose you will love where you end up.

I would think that five mgs every two weeks should be fine. If you go to 2.5 every two weeks then this will take you 30 months.

If your looking to do this with no discomfort at all I don't think that rout exists.

 

[manboychef]

I don't think you will find any inpatient place that will take you. Dropping ten mg every two weeks from 150 means it will take you almost eight months if you do it in fives it will take 16 months. Your clinic should be able to help you with a taper. If they suggest a more rapid taper let them know you would rather drop your dose by 5/10 every two weeks until your off.

You will still likely go through some withdrawals and PAWS when you reach 0. Methadone is a very significant chemical. Its a triple opiate agonist, Its an nmda antagonist and its both a serotonin and adrenal rebuke inhibitor. Because of the broad spectrum of manipulation methadone does it scrambles the system pretty good so it takes months for the system to adjust back. At your dose, even with a long slow tapper, you will likely face PAWS for months. The good news is in under a year from your last dose you will love where you end up.

I would think that five mgs every two weeks should be fine. If you go to 2.5 every two weeks then this will take you 30 months.

If your looking to do this with no discomfort at all I don't think that rout exists.

If it did I don't think people would be on that stuff for life.

The clonazepam will definitely help a lot with some of the emotional stuff that comes up while detoxing. I would highly suggest ordering some kratom if it is legal in your state. If it is illegal I would not do it. Part of recovery is getting rid of the illegal activities. Pot really helps too if you are able to smoke without getting anxiety. It lessens a lot of the physical symptoms and takes some of the joint pain away.

If I was in your shoes I would go down about 5mg a week until you are at 40mg. Then I would go down a little slower at that point to lessen the nastiness that is methadone withdrawal.

I would look into a long term rehab for her. At least two months in order to learn to be functional again and have some time away from stressors and triggers.

As her significant other you are also going to have to do some work in order to heal. It is very true that addiction is a family problem as most of those that love an addict end up having a co-dependent relationship. I will post some links on co-dependency.

The addicts mom.
This is a network of people that are helping each other heal from the emotional burden of being the parent of, significant other of, sibling of, child of, etc. an addict. You will find people that can get you started on the road to healing here.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think right now 5 to 10mg a WEEK is good for her to do. Once she gets to 80mg she should taper no more than 10% of her daily dose every week (so the first week she goes from 80mg to 72mg, for the nex week it would be from 72mg to 65mg, the following week from 65mg to 59mg, and so on and so forth).

 

[Jetthecaf]

I would recommend sticking up on what you can for meds and do it at home, detox won't do much for you that you can't do yourself or get supplied from a quick doctor visit

 

[NIKKI83]

Yes i see that. It's going to take forever. I think if she could be 30-40MG but she keeps up with all the other stuff I'm fine with that. But time will tell I mean she hasn't dropped 1MG in 6 years.
The clinic is a joke it's so sad but true. They allowed her to get away with the benzo's and just noticed it 4 months later because we needed extra take homes. Instaed they slashed all take homes and now we guest dose. If anything would have happened to her I don't know but the clinic should be monitoring prescriptions. What else are we paying $400/month for?

So that's the question for my wife.
A) Cold Turkey off 150
B) Taper fast by 10's monthly
C) Taper fast by 2.5 weekly
D) Taper fast by 5 bi-weekly
E) Taper slow 2.5 or less bi weekly.

I'm with you the least she should do is 5 bi-weekly which is 2.5 per week avg. But do you think dropping 10 monthly is better so then she adjusts once a month for "x" amount of time rather than twice a month for "x" amount of time>

I don't think you will find any inpatient place that will take you. Dropping ten mg every two weeks from 150 means it will take you almost eight months if you do it in fives it will take 16 months. Your clinic should be able to help you with a taper. If they suggest a more rapid taper let them know you would rather drop your dose by 5/10 every two weeks until your off.

You will still likely go through some withdrawals and PAWS when you reach 0. Methadone is a very significant chemical. Its a triple opiate agonist, Its an nmda antagonist and its both a serotonin and adrenal rebuke inhibitor. Because of the broad spectrum of manipulation methadone does it scrambles the system pretty good so it takes months for the system to adjust back. At your dose, even with a long slow tapper, you will likely face PAWS for months. The good news is in under a year from your last dose you will love where you end up.

I would think that five mgs every two weeks should be fine. If you go to 2.5 every two weeks then this will take you 30 months.

If your looking to do this with no discomfort at all I don't think that rout exists.

 

[NIKKI83]

5mg a week huh? 20 a month? I wonder if she can handle that if she could that would amazing.
The long term rehab is a no brainer she's going to have to go for two months at th eend.

If it did I don't think people would be on that stuff for life.

The clonazepam will definitely help a lot with some of the emotional stuff that comes up while detoxing. I would highly suggest ordering some kratom if it is legal in your state. If it is illegal I would not do it. Part of recovery is getting rid of the illegal activities. Pot really helps too if you are able to smoke without getting anxiety. It lessens a lot of the physical symptoms and takes some of the joint pain away.

If I was in your shoes I would go down about 5mg a week until you are at 40mg. Then I would go down a little slower at that point to lessen the nastiness that is methadone withdrawal.

I would look into a long term rehab for her. At least two months in order to learn to be functional again and have some time away from stressors and triggers.

As her significant other you are also going to have to do some work in order to heal. It is very true that addiction is a family problem as most of those that love an addict end up having a co-dependent relationship. I will post some links on co-dependency.

The addicts mom.
This is a network of people that are helping each other heal from the emotional burden of being the parent of, significant other of, sibling of, child of, etc. an addict. You will find people that can get you started on the road to healing here.

 

[NIKKI83]

Do you think 20=40 mg avg per month is going to be too much for someone? Or at this high dose it'll be easier till she gets lower?

I think right now 5 to 10mg a WEEK is good for her to do. Once she gets to 80mg she should taper no more than 10% of her daily dose every week (so the first week she goes from 80mg to 72mg, for the nex week it would be from 72mg to 65mg, the following week from 65mg to 59mg, and so on and so forth).

 

[neversickanymore]

I would taper by weekly as the half life of methadone is long. You will need 14 days for the higher dose to be eliminated and for the system to readjust some.

If you do it every week it will catch up with you.

medications for acute opiate detox

The medications I would explore the use of for detox would be:
>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE< >here<
OR >Lyrica<
OR >phenibut<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol
Senokot S is a stool softener and laxative. If you do not want the laxative you can go for strait stool softenerDioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate.

(Opi Withdrawal) what is the best comfort meds for opiate w/d?

Your Personal Opiate Withdrawal Arsenal

Once a month will work as well. Whats the lowest dose she can do ok at right now?

 

[cj]

Cold turkey is really not an option. I am personally done with this thread as I fear your going to pressure your wife into doing what you want instead of whats best for her. Does she really want to taper or are you simply inconvenienced by the clinic?

 

[manboychef]

Cold turkey is really not an option. I am personally done with this thread as I fear your going to pressure your wife into doing what you want instead of whats best for her. Does she really want to taper or are you simply inconvenienced by the clinic? Whatever assholes going to asshole.

This is so true. You cannot make her do anything. The best thing is her coming to the decision on her own. If you force her to get clean she will end up being deceitful in order to get her fix. This will be very damaging to your relationship. The reason I know she will be deceitful to keep using if it isn't her idea is because it is part of addiction.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am wondering, how old is the patient, what other chronic conditions does she have, and is this her first fo at getting off the juice? What about how long she has been using and how many attempts at formal treatment (on an outpatient or inpatient basis) have been made? All these are important questions in terms of us helping you OP.

I tend to find that titrating down at a constant, los rate is easier than chopping larger bits off here and there. Therefore I would suggest 2.5mg a week over 5mg biweekly or 10mg monthly.

I think you are kinda over thinking this OP, unless there are other considerations. I mean, there is no physiological (i.e. non-psychological) reason that tapering 5mg a week or 2.5mg a week would be noticably different to her if this were a blind taper. I highly recommend you suggest the idea of a blind taper, as it takes a huge amount of the burden off of her. Only difference with a blind taper is that they dont remind you what your daily dose is or how much youre going down so the association isnt so obvious in the mind.

 

[NIKKI83]

That was very unpleasant. Interesting to, I have a wife, who had a 120 pills that interact deathly but she is in the right state of mind to make this decision? I don't get that that makes no sense not sure how you're a moderator trying to assist others.

Cold turkey is really not an option. I am personally done with this thread as I fear your going to pressure your wife into doing what you want instead of whats best for her. Does she really want to taper or are you simply inconvenienced by the clinic? Whatever assholes going to asshole.

.........

she is willing and wanting to get clean just trying to find the best way.

........

Thank you.
32.
Kidney infection issues, depression, anxiety, drug abuse, and self harm.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thank you.
32.
Kidney infection issues, depression, anxiety, drug abuse, and self harm.

Okay, then cold turkey will probably kill her or result in serious bodily harm. Serious she needs to detox at a hospital. The only safe way for her to do this is to taper down to a more reasonable dose and then go inpatient to a hospital to detox once she is down well under 30-40mg. This is all assuming that this is what she wants. PM me if you need any other help.

 

[manboychef]

As long as you work together to get to the decision.

 

[cj]

The slower the taper the better the statistical outcomes are. If you rush this process your wife is going to pay heavily for it. She hasn't even tapered a mg in years as you said in an earlier post so it is stupid to come up with a rock solid taper plan at this point. My final suggestion is to go 5 mg a week until she gets too 100mg then go down 2.5mg a week after that. It will take a while maybe but there is no free lunch when it comes to long term maintenance.

Have you ever been around someone in severe opiate withdrawal? If not you need to check your ego and listen to the experienced people here and the experts at her clinic. I don't want to read another post from you in a few months that your wife relapsed on heroin or committed suicide.

 

[RJVick]

I'm a heroin addict myself and I'm in recovery I know people that were on methadone and told me how much worse the withdrawals are so I can only imagine how painful it is. I know rehabs that will take you in and detox you and I can get you in. Same with anyone sick of using I'm with snip <with a rehabilitation facility>