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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

The Psychoactive Substances Act - Update: Illegals R Us

Well, I don't think there's actually enough wood alcohol in a little tube of 460 to do you much lasting harm, unless you had a severe allergic reaction. But it is there; and if anything went amiss, you shouldn't expect any help from any spivvy ambo-chasers.
 
I would love to be a forensic chemist / toxicologist for the next year commencing from the date of this ban.

Congrats to the government for essentially forcing the dumping of huge quantities of novel, dangerous, psychoactive drugs directly into the blackmarket in one fell swoop, I have no doubt that some of these drugs have already emerged as adulterants in traditional blackmarket drugs like amphetamine and coke, now, I can imagine that use increasing, putting more lives at risk etc etc.

They have put fuck all measures in place to mitigate the inevitable fallout from their insane law, infact their cuts to mental health services, social services, and the deliberate ongoing sabotage of the NHS via chronic underfunding are going to make this an even bigger problem.

You don't actually have to have a degree in science to be a forensic scientist. One quick college course and that's you. It's one of the main reasons I think CSI was funded by the government before it really took off to make people want to believe in 'forensic evidence'. None of it is peer reviewed and you have to pay a fortune to have another lab give you a second opinion rather than the police lab yet all the characters in CSI seem to have multiple degrees/masters/doctorates in many fields. Take for example bite marks, they aren't solid evidence it's just looking at one picture and saying "this looks similar to this picture" (nor is a partial fingerprint, or a fingerprint itself; there isn't a worldwide fingerprint database and if there was (not that I would want one, but iPhone 5s users are helping to contribute) and you ran a murder fingerprint through it you'd likely find 10+ culprits. Penn and Teller really ripped into crime scene investigation.

I'm pretty sure a forensic pathologist (you know, the ones who do the autopsies) requires a doctorate however, I think.

EDIT: I was on a phone with a mate there and he brought up the issue of people going into severe withdrawal from synthetic cannabinoids. Does the NHS have a treatment strategy for that? Doubt it.


englandgz74;13600233 Right about the gun sights too.....I looked it up :)[/QUOTE said:
Sure cling film (saran wrap) was invented for someone who wanted to make a covering for his car. It was filed under useless until another scientist started using it to wrap his lunch up with it.

Unless you're in wartime most things are invented by accident.
 
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EDIT: I was on a phone with a mate there and he brought up the issue of people going into severe withdrawal from synthetic cannabinoids. Does the NHS have a treatment strategy for that? Doubt it.

They have most likely been developing that on the fly as the problem has emerged, and I imagine it would involve supervised detox in a clinical setting because of the severity of the symptoms in serious addicts. SCRAs have been landing patients in acute wards for several years now so they have had plenty of time to work on an effective approach.
 
I would love to be a forensic chemist / toxicologist for the next year commencing from the date of this ban.

Congrats to the government for essentially forcing the dumping of huge quantities of novel, dangerous, psychoactive drugs directly into the blackmarket in one fell swoop, I have no doubt that some of these drugs have already emerged as adulterants in traditional blackmarket drugs like amphetamine and coke, now, I can imagine that use increasing, putting more lives at risk etc etc.

They have put fuck all measures in place to mitigate the inevitable fallout from their insane law, infact their cuts to mental health services, social services, and the deliberate ongoing sabotage of the NHS via chronic underfunding are going to make this an even bigger problem.

You don't actually have to have a degree in science to be a forensic scientist. One quick college course and that's you. It's one of the main reasons I think CSI was funded by the government before it really took off to make people want to believe in 'forensic evidence'. None of it is peer reviewed and you have to pay a fortune to have another lab give you a second opinion rather than the police lab yet all the characters in CSI seem to have multiple degrees/masters/doctorates in many fields. Take for example bite marks, they aren't solid evidence it's just looking at one picture and saying "this looks similar to this picture" (nor is a partial fingerprint, or a fingerprint itself; there isn't a worldwide fingerprint database and if there was (not that I would want one, but iPhone 5s users are helping to contribute) and you ran a murder fingerprint through it you'd likely find 10+ culprits. Penn and Teller really ripped into crime scene investigation.

I'm pretty sure a forensic pathologist (you know, the ones who do the autopsies) requires a doctorate however, I think.

They have most likely been developing that on the fly as the problem has emerged, and I imagine it would involve supervised detox in a clinical setting because of the severity of the symptoms in serious addicts. SCRAs have been landing patients in acute wards for several years now so they have had plenty of time to work on an effective approach.
They didn't have a treatment strategy for GHB in 2011. I came in with extreme anxiety, thinking I was going to die. Hell I even quoted atricles of the withdrawal and how baclofen was used to take people off it in a month. Huge amounts of the one night I spent thereare blanks but I could hear the nurses laughing at me and saying "he's faking withdrawal" then the doctor came up and told me I couldn't possibly be addicted if I dosed every four hours as the half-life of GBL is less than 10 minutes. When I told him a prodrug he simply wouldn't listen. They discharged me and I was stuck in pure anxiety and 'true' hallucinations for... hmm three days.
Again if I have money to my name I might take legal action, but no doubt my treatment papers will have been 'lost'
Doctors are as bad as cops if you ask me.

I would like to give that pig headed doctor a nice dose of atropine so he experiences hell for at least a day.
 
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Some doctors can be cunts but mostly in my experience they are good people who want to keep people alive. Imagine dealing with YOU if you are a health professional? Do you think doctors and nurses have free reign on how treatment is given. They have to follow protocols, policys and procedures. A person presenting to ED in the state you describe would not be easy to manage. They dont know for sure what drugs you are on even if you tell them as people often get sold something thats not what they think. Its not easy work and people do try their best. In my experience the people who work in ED depts are among the most committed and patient focussed people i know. Perhaps you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming the doctors and nurses for your predicament.
 
[MENTION=172215]bropiate[/MENTION] - ... and people wonder why Nationaism is so widespread in Scotland right now, it's because folk are awakening, voting away from the traditional three Westminster parties and changing the political landscape forever. MPs like Theresa May terrify me with their pseudo harm-reduction masking their real controlling and manipulative policies. I can't believe the Tories gained 6 MSPs in the Scottish General Election either, Conservatism creeping it's way back into Scottish politics. What happened to there being two more pandas in Scotland than Tories?!?
 
Sorry, my last post was posted before I had caught up with the thread..... I used to post on a Glasgow based electronic music forum called 'Slam Events' years ago, obviously run by the Slam DJs of the Techno record label Soma records, as some of you will have heard of. Did anyone else ever post there?? It was a vile cesspit of hilarity, name something taboo and it was joked about daily; albeit, it complete irony. It eventually had to get permanently closed as SLAM coundn't have their name associated with the constant abuse and disgusting posts. People (the majority were weegies) outside the area just didn't get the joke and took them seriously. I have to admit, lines were crossed and often blurred.
 
[MENTION=172215]bropiate[/MENTION] - ... and people wonder why Nationaism is so widespread in Scotland right now, it's because folk are awakening, voting away from the traditional three Westminster parties and changing the political landscape forever. MPs like Theresa May terrify me with their pseudo harm-reduction masking their real controlling and manipulative policies. I can't believe the Tories gained 6 MSPs in the Scottish General Election either, Conservatism creeping it's way back into Scottish politics. What happened to there being two more pandas in Scotland than Tories?!?
Might be worth remembering that the SNP fully supports this law. This from their Civil Liberties spokesperson: https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...ghlin-banning-psychoactive-drugs-reduces-risk
Anne McLaughlin said:
Making psychoactive substances unlawful, less visible and less available will reduce the risk posed by these substances – so it is vital that this legislation works for Scotland and I urge the UK government to work with the Scottish Government and Crown Office to ensure it does.
 
Some doctors can be cunts but mostly in my experience they are good people who want to keep people alive. Imagine dealing with YOU if you are a health professional? Do you think doctors and nurses have free reign on how treatment is given. They have to follow protocols, policys and procedures. A person presenting to ED in the state you describe would not be easy to manage. They dont know for sure what drugs you are on even if you tell them as people often get sold something thats not what they think. Its not easy work and people do try their best. In my experience the people who work in ED depts are among the most committed and patient focussed people i know. Perhaps you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming the doctors and nurses for your predicament.

Right when I was run over by a car I was put on a spinal board, I had a concussion. When I said "feel sick, can you give me some sort of antiemetic" they blanked to me, when I actually was about to be sick I asked them to tip the spinal board, instead they used their 1ml/sec suction tube on my vomit. I started aspirating vomit and a doctor was holding me down, so I punched the fucker (a typical fight or flight response, if you were drowning on your own vomit and being held down you would do anything you could to free yourself; rational thought goes out the window), eventually all the doctors and nurses backed off and I coughed and spluttered up about 1l of vomit. After I'd emptied the contents of my stomach all over my clothes (not removed for a day) and into my long hair I got given an antiemetic. The whole thing could have been avoided had they given me an antiemetic when I asked for one, instead I just got shouted at.
After going for my full body X-ray they determined that I was perfectly fine, even though my left knee was 3 times the size it should be. They tried to make me walk on it, I collapsed (at this point the whispers of 'faking it' were perfectly audible) they wheeled me down to obs and it was only after the surrounding patients expressed my concern about me being okay (falling asleep, twitching and waking up yelping) that a doctor came in and said that my left leg needs X-rayed again, I asked why and they simply said "I junior doctor was put in charge of your X-rays, he X-rayed your right leg twice and didn't notice.
Low and behold my left leg was broken (I would later find out that I had very bad partial tears in my ACL and PCL), they put me on a ward, 'washed the vomit out of my hair' (I was still picking vomit out of my hair and windshield glass out of my face 3 days later, as well as coughing up blood and mucus coated vomit) even though the nurses knew the knee surgeon would only be in on Friday they fasted me from Wednesday.
(There was an awful lot more incompetence shown by the nursing staff too, I think I've posted about this)
When the knee surgeon came in I asked him what he was going to do "well we're going to open your knee, see if the ligaments are damaged and put pins in your knee" when I asked why he wanted to do exploratory open surgery rather than take an MRI "Uh well our MRI broke down" My last words in that conversation were "fuck off you quack"
He was going to take me into an OR with vomit in my hair (a breeding ground for bacteria) and do unnecessary surgery. Unfortuantely I was 17 and my less medically minded (even though she works for the Belfast mental health trust, as an advocate at that time) promised me a laptop (5 years on she finally made good on that promise but made me pay for it8) as she signed me over to the surgeon I got into my hidden stash of food and ate as much as possible, when the surgeon came in to prep me for surgery I offered him a sweet. He looked like he'd been punched in the face.

After that I demanded to leave the hospital (which I couldn't do for 24 hours, they put a new cast on me; which is important to note) and taught me to walk with crutches. All the staff were dickheads and my aunt from England who came over to visit put in a complaint about the hospital, so no; it's not "all in my head"

Once I left I went home, washed my hair (which contained significant amounts of vomit) and went straight to Belfast royal rather than Belfast ulster hospital (the one I was previously in) I was told after an X-ray that surgery would never had been needed necessary and that the doctors had put the wrong cast on which had to be cut off and replaced. When I asked the standing knee specialist about the knee surgeon's name (which he kept throwing around like he was famous) the reply was "who? No he doesn't work those hospitals he said he did; I do; that surgeon was likely an inexperienced surgeon looking for experience. In all my ten years working in pretty much every hospital around Belfast I've never heard of him".

I've other people who've had worse experiences too, like my ex's mother who broke her knee coming off a motorbike, without any X-rays the doctors said it was a dislocation and completely destroyed her knee. It's been replaced since. When one doctor came in to see what the screaming was about "we're resetting a dislocated leg" "okay, can I see the X-rays" "uh... well we don't really have any"
The whole thing was covered up and she never got a penny. White wall of silence.

Perhaps you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming the doctors and nurses for your predicament.
Perhaps you should wise the fuck up? You don't know the shit my family and friends have been through due to poor doctors, and I would be only one presenting with drug related injuries. As for coming off GBL, baclofen has zero abuse potential, I said it worked, quoted pubmed study to the doctors and they told me that because GBL only has a ten minute half life dosing every 4 hours couldn't possibly make me an addict, when I said it's a prodrug to GHB they just ignored me.
Sorry to tell you (if you can hear me from up in your ivory tower) but the NHS is a service designed to help people, not discharge them when in dangerous withdrawal.
 
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I wouldn't want to know where Sturgeon stands on the issue of porn! As for 'free speech online', the only free speech which tends to be curtailed is the kind of hate speech which is already the subject of restrictions in the wider world. It's not like people are any less free, it's just that the real world has absorbed the internet after all these years, and the law has been forced to play catch up. Most of the people crying out for 'free speech' on the internet would never be as quick to defend their inalienable right to be edgy were they to be faced with the real world hazards of a kick in the balls and a blade to the guts.
 
Right when I was run over by a car I was put on a spinal board, I had a concussion. When I said "feel sick, can you give me some sort of antiemetic" they blanked to me, when I actually was about to be sick I asked them to tip the spinal board, instead they used their 1ml/sec suction tube on my vomit. I started aspirating vomit and a doctor was holding me down, so I punched the fucker (a typical fight or flight response, if you were drowning on your own vomit and being held down you would do anything you could to free yourself; rational thought goes out the window), eventually all the doctors and nurses backed off and I coughed and spluttered up about 1l of vomit. After I'd emptied the contents of my stomach all over my clothes (not removed for a day) and into my long hair I got given an antiemetic. The whole thing could have been avoided had they given me an antiemetic when I asked for one, instead I just got shouted at.
After going for my full body X-ray they determined that I was perfectly fine, even though my left knee was 3 times the size it should be. They tried to make me walk on it, I collapsed (at this point the whispers of 'faking it' were perfectly audible) they wheeled me down to obs and it was only after the surrounding patients expressed my concern about me being okay (falling asleep, twitching and waking up yelping) that a doctor came in and said that my left leg needs X-rayed again, I asked why and they simply said "I junior doctor was put in charge of your X-rays, he X-rayed your right leg twice and didn't notice.
Low and behold my left leg was broken (I would later find out that I had very bad partial tears in my ACL and PCL

), they put me on a ward, 'washed the vomit out of my hair' (I was still picking vomit out of my hair and windshield glass out of my face 3 days later, as well as coughing up blood and mucus coated vomit) even though the nurses knew the knee surgeon would only be in on Friday they fasted me from Wednesday.
(There was an awful lot more incompetence shown by the nursing staff too, I think I've posted about this)
When the knee surgeon came in I asked him what he was going to do "well we're going to open your knee, see if the ligaments are damaged and put pins in your knee" when I asked why he wanted to do exploratory open surgery rather than take an MRI "Uh well our MRI broke down" My last words in that conversation were "fuck off you quack"
He was going to take me into an OR with vomit in my hair (a breeding ground for bacteria) and do unnecessary surgery. Unfortuantely I was 17 and my less medically minded (even though she works for the Belfast mental health trust, as an advocate at that time) promised me a laptop (5 years on she finally made good on that promise but made me pay for it8) as she signed me over to the surgeon I got into my hidden stash of food and ate as much as possible, when the surgeon came in to prep me for surgery I offered him a sweet. He looked like he'd been punched in the face.

After that I demanded to leave the hospital (which I couldn't do for 24 hours, they put a new cast on me; which is important to note) and taught me to walk with crutches. All the staff were dickheads and my aunt from England who came over to visit put in a complaint about the hospital, so no; it's not "all in my head"

Once I left I went home, washed my hair (which contained significant amounts of vomit) and went straight to Belfast royal rather than Belfast ulster hospital (the one I was previously in) I was told after an X-ray that surgery would never had been needed necessary and that the doctors had put the wrong cast on which had to be cut off and replaced. When I asked the standing knee specialist about the knee surgeon's name (which he kept throwing around like he was famous) the reply was "who? No he doesn't work those hospitals he said he did; I do; that surgeon was likely an inexperienced surgeon looking for experience. In all my ten years working in pretty much every hospital around Belfast I've never heard of him".

I've other people who've had worse experiences too, like my ex's mother who broke her knee coming off a motorbike, without any X-rays the doctors said it was a dislocation and completely destroyed her knee. It's been replaced since. When one doctor came in to see what the screaming was about "we're resetting a dislocated leg" "okay, can I see the X-rays" "uh... well we don't really have any"
The whole thing was covered up and she never got a penny. White wall of silence.


Perhaps you should wise the fuck up? You don't know the shit my family and friends have been through due to poor doctors, and I would be only one presenting with drug related injuries. As for coming off GBL, baclofen has zero abuse potential, I said it worked, quoted pubmed study to the doctors and they told me that because GBL only has a ten minute half life dosing every 4 hours couldn't possibly make me an addict, when I said it's a prodrug to GHB they just ignored me.
Sorry to tell you (if you can hear me from up in your ivory tower) but the NHS is a service designed to help people, not discharge them when in dangerous withdrawal.

Bet you had your Manchester Utd football shirt on the day this happened ? If so , the Dr was well in order
 
Yeah, it's much easier being an online bigot, kind of takes the 'danger element' out of it as you quite rightly point out.
 
Bet you had your Manchester Utd football shirt on the day this happened ? If so , the Dr was well in order

Nope and your attempt at humour is terrible at best. I don't follow English football.

Maybe if you were mowed down by a car and told you'd need a new knee put in before you turn 30 and have to live in constant, daily pain you'd be less likely to mock. No?

If you were only joking I apologise, but seriously; it's not a laughing matter. I'm going to be crippled for life and due to a number of things I won't see a penny for it.

My knee X-ray looks a bit like this except the bone spines are about 3x as many and thinner, the X-ray was at a lower power so you can see the cartilage and the meniscus, spines of bone are growing into the cartilage and the meniscus is rapidly thinning.

As I said, it's not really much of a laughing matter when you can't walk a mile without using a crutch or having a friend prop you up at the age of 23.
 
Nope and your attempt at humour is terrible at best. I don't follow English football.

Maybe if you were mowed down by a car and told you'd need a new knee put in before you turn 30 and have to live in constant, daily pain you'd be less likely to mock. No?

If you were only joking I apologise, but seriously; it's not a laughing matter. I'm going to be crippled for life and due to a number of things I won't see a penny for it.

My knee X-ray looks a bit like this except the bone spines are about 3x as many and thinner, the X-ray was at a lower power so you can see the cartilage and the meniscus, spines of bone are growing into the cartilage and the meniscus is rapidly thinning.

As I said, it's not really much of a laughing matter when you can't walk a mile without using a crutch or having a friend prop you up at the age of 23.

Must have been 1st April then ?




And of corse I'm joking.
 
You were seemingly in a fit state to be noting all the 'errors' on the part of people trying to treat you, but you appear to have been unable to express your concerns in a manner that wasn't confrontational or abusive. Punching doctors (seemingly with little remorse) and yelling "fuck off you quack" are counterproductive approaches, to say the least. It's terrible to hear of your injury, but to be perfectly honest the average reader will have more sympathy with the medics for putting up with you than they will have for you and your catalogue of perceived medical injustices. I'm also detecting a liberal dash of paranoia here, though perhaps I'm just a fucking quack.
 
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