Why is codeine still used?

[NIJJA666]

and last wee thing its not only for pain its also for bad coughs its a cough suppressant , also if u have IBS and if u have really bad skitters , and pain it has many uses its like saying methadone is only for heroin addicts 2 get them off it when it 2 has alot off uses

 

[ytwok]

I'd rather maintenance on codeine than methadone or subs, but codeine isn't "sustainable" for maintenance, probably partly because of tolerance a short half life and maybe "ceiling dose".
It can be expensive though because in most of the world codeine phosphate is over the counter, in most of Europe, Asia and Africa, cheaper than "western world", depending also on the HealthCare of said country..

No offence to the OP but what point do you want to make, not very. HR.

 

[NIJJA666]

i am in europe all medication here where i am is 100 percent free 2 every 1 and i only take codeine phosphate for pain cocodamol casue the paracetamol it it upsetts my gut ive been taking this for over 2 years now and it still works but i dnt abuse it and dnt try and get high from it but i have a few times am not gonna lie but yeh u jst pass out u do get tolorance thats why i take few days without and suffer the pain then start taking them again and u can tell how strong they really r after time off never needed 2 take the ceiling dose as its 2 much with all the diaz and sleeping tabs i get prescribed aswell it is alot put all 2 gether its not phosphate u can get otc u can get cocodamol at 8mg codeine or 12mg codiene over counter but thats mixed with paracetamol

I'd rather maintenance on codeine than methadone or subs, but codeine isn't "sustainable" for maintenance, probably partly because of tolerance a short half life and maybe "ceiling dose".
It can be expensive though because in most of the world codeine phosphate is over the counter, in most of Europe, Asia and Africa, cheaper than "western world", depending also on the HealthCare of said country..

No offence to the OP but what point do you want to make, not very. HR.

 

[TSLexi]

I just find acetaminophen to be far too toxic for its intended use. It's just my opinion

 

[Erikmen]

I'd rather maintenance on codeine than methadone or subs, but codeine isn't "sustainable" for maintenance, probably partly because of tolerance a short half life and maybe "ceiling dose".
It can be expensive though because in most of the world codeine phosphate is over the counter, in most of Europe, Asia and Africa, cheaper than "western world", depending also on the HealthCare of said country..

No offence to the OP but what point do you want to make, not very. HR.

Good point.
I think some or most common hospitals will always try to give you the least addictive / strong opiate to alleviate pain IMO/E. Some of them start with 30 mg of Codeine while others with 50/100 mg of Tramadol. When I lived in the US, Morphine was the padronized drug when you were admitted in a hospital with pain issues and it had to do with legal issues.

 

[Erikmen]

But what makes you say this? It has an excepted medical value and most dont even notice its working. I will give you liver issues but all you have to do is monitor intake and try to not need drugs such as these daily. I would never suggest taking a narcotic for average pain, hell a placebo is probably just as good in a lot of cases because people just need the idea of the pain relief sometimes.

True.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Why is codeine still used when hydrocodone and many other much more potent narcotics exist? It's so fucking weak! The only thing it's ever good for is as an antitussive.

I mean, if you're going to prescribe codeine for analgesia because you don't think hydrocodone is appropriate, you might as well just prescribe ibuprofen or naproxen. At least those are also anti-inflammatories and antipyretics.

In fact, IV ibuprofen and naproxen are pretty damn good at what they do, and fast too. They can significantly reduce the narcotic dosage for postoperative analgesia.

Acetaminophen however, is a fucking poison, end of story. We need to ban it. There is nothing it does that other analgesics don't do better with less risk.

I totally disagree. Just because you find it weak doesn't mean that others do. There are people I know who don't have much opiate tolerance and find codeine extremely. In fact they've gone as far as to say it makes them drowsy and puts them to sleep. Maybe the different opiates are to cater for different needs which will vary from one to another

Ibuprofen and codeine are completely different so really this may mislead people. Ibuprofen is a NSAID, taken in excess can cause stomach problems such as ulcers or excessive bleeding (can someone please confirm the latter for me so this doesn't mislead?) whereas codeine is an opiate, but unlike other opiates can be lethal if taken intravenously

The liver changes codeine into morphine so rally you are consuming morphine when taking codeine. Would you consider morphine to be a weak opiate?

Evey

 

[Erikmen]

I'm not talking about me Evey. That would be unethical to say the least as I'm trying to answer him what has been established in local hospitals in that particular dose (30 mg) every 6-8 hours as needed. Orally while this is still emergency, or under evaluation.

There's nothing to do with what I think it's weak or stronger. If my wife had a codeine pill she would probably sleep the full day.

The emphasis is on the dose amount 30 mg of codeine is hardly near anywhere close to 5 mg of morphine. IMO it's a different amount of morphine being sent to the liver. A lot less. I'd need to check equivalency here but that's not the point. You disagree because you had thought I was making the comparison based on principles that I did not.

Would I consider morphine a weak opiate? No, but we are talking about codeine in a formula that was prepared so a child under 12 could use. A pediatric indication if a 10 year old boy break his arm for instance.

 

[Eveleivibe]

I'm not talking about me Evey. That would be unethical to say the least as I'm trying to answer him what has been established in local hospitals in that particular dose (30 mg) every 6-8 hours as needed

Hiya Erikmen, sorry I was talking to the original poster (OP) of the thread I've not read any of the other responses yet --

Evey

 

[Eveleivibe]

But what makes you say this? It has an excepted medical value and most dont even notice its working. I will give you liver issues but all you have to do is monitor intake and try to not need drugs such as these daily. I would never suggest taking a narcotic for average pain, hell a placebo is probably just as good in a lot of cases because people just need the idea of the pain relief sometimes.

This is a valid point that some people want and need relief so much that the relief of receiving a tablet has them feeling better even if it's a placebo ie 'the placebo affect. There's some studies on people with ADHD whom have reported improvement in placebo group. Can't remember the exact results would have to look at the study.

This may seem like a completely stupid question (it's late) but do we perceive some forms of opiates to be stronger than others because they are stronger than others or because one has been told that they are stronger?

It's really interesting when you take into consideration the mind, substance, need/desire

Evey

 

[Erikmen]

No worries.
Erik

 

[NIJJA666]

morphine is 5 x the streighnth of codiene at 30mg is pretty much the same as 5mg morphine

I'm not talking about me Evey. That would be unethical to say the least as I'm trying to answer him what has been established in local hospitals in that particular dose (30 mg) every 6-8 hours as needed. Orally while this is still emergency, or under evaluation.

There's nothing to do with what I think it's weak or stronger. If my wife had a codeine pill she would probably sleep the full day.

The emphasis is on the dose amount 30 mg of codeine is hardly near anywhere close to 5 mg of morphine. IMO it's a different amount of morphine being sent to the liver. A lot less. I'd need to check equivalency here but that's not the point. You disagree because you had thought I was making the comparison based on principles that I did not.

Would I consider morphine a weak opiate? No, but we are talking about codeine in a formula that was prepared so a child under 12 could use. A pediatric indication if a 10 year old boy break his arm for instance.

 

[NIJJA666]

thats paracetamol here acetaminophen and yes its very toxic infact there talking about making it a prescription drug here as u can buy it in any and almost every shop a pack of 30 is 17p and yes 17p , personally it upsets my gut hence now i have jst 60mg of codeine phosphate 4 x daily which is cocodamol here if there was paracetamol in it 140xvalium 10mg a month and 30xcodiene phosphate60mg 4 times daily which isnt even a hole week worth and zopiclone 7.5 every night which i dnt think u can get in usa yet , in usa they seem 2 just chuck tablets at ppl because u pay 2 see the doc u pay 2 get ur medication so the stronger the meds the more expensive and adictive so ur always going 2 buy more here its very hard 2 get almost any presription meds as seing the doc is free and all prescription medication is also free so they tend 2 prescribe what u actually need and its not for there own bennafit i really do get alot on prescription and strong meds in america it would cost me hundereds off dollers a week here its nothing as we have gd nhs service unlike america

 

[Erikmen]

morphine is 5 x the streighnth of codiene at 30mg is pretty much the same as 5mg morphine

Thanks!

 

[Cheezy]

Dont take it then

 

[NIJJA666]

i dnt if its me u r commenting 2??

 

[Eveleivibe]

As someone who ODd on paracetamol I would welcome the idea of it becoming prescription only because how many people can overdose with it. Yes they limit the boxes to no more than two but it's easy to just go around a few shops. I managed to get over 60 paracetamol 60 ibuprofen and 400 mg of codeine. Limiting people just makes people take a big longer I suppose it could possibly give some time to change their mind but making it POM would be ideal - it's not like there isn't ibuprofen or aspirin for pains like headache, period pain etc. I would not wish paracetamol overdose on my worst enemy

Evey

 

[NIJJA666]

i agree it should b on script but its not exacly cost effective unless u get a script but still pay the hole 17p a pack but it shouldnt b so available in every shop it should be in a chemists only u could buy para 2 boxes n still buy other meds at the same time which also have 500mg off para in them aswell they cant controll if u save them up n end up with thousands of them at home even basic cough syrups have it it would b pretty hard for them 2 make script only its amazing what they say is safe and years later they say the complete opposite

As someone who ODd on paracetamol I would welcome the idea of it becoming prescription only because how many people can overdose with it. Yes they limit the boxes to no more than two but it's easy to just go around a few shops. I managed to get over 60 paracetamol 60 ibuprofen and 400 mg of codeine. Limiting people just makes people take a big longer I suppose it could possibly give some time to change their mind but making it POM would be ideal - it's not like there isn't ibuprofen or aspirin for pains like headache, period pain etc. I would not wish paracetamol overdose on my worst enemy

Evey

 

[Voxide]

I just find acetaminophen to be far too toxic for its intended use. It's just my opinion

Except your opinion isn't based on any scientific fact, which is why it's stupid.

There's a difference between abusing pills and using them for their intended purpose, in the latter case it is unlikely that APAP will cause any problems to patients without liver disease. Get it through your head. No shit it's toxic for you since you eat 7 pills at a time.

 

[NIJJA666]

yes it is fact any decent doc will even tell u that unless ur in usa as docs dnt give a shit u pay there happy and the chemist is happy thats why there even talking about making it a script medication here and u can buy a box of 30 infact 2 boxes at a time the cost 17p each ,look at how many things and how many drugs they said were gd for u all those years ago and now realize how bad it is god u could buy heroin otc at 1 time,smoking was gd for u at 1 time, things change after they see how wrong they were when they made these desissions

Except your opinion isn't based on any scientific fact, which is why it's stupid.

There's a difference between abusing pills and using them for their intended purpose, in the latter case it is unlikely that APAP will cause any problems to patients without liver disease. Get it through your head. No shit it's toxic for you since you eat 7 pills at a time.