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Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

well theirs the fact it takes 680 gallons to make one quarter pound of meat. We have more than a billion humans starving and 40% of the worlds land is used for agruculutre. So instead of wasting land and water to feed the cows. Why dont we feed humans instead and stop growing so much grain for livestock. Methane from these animals is at least 4 times more damaging to the athmoshere than co2 plus theirs more methane that co2 rn. All the animal poo has destroyed coasts and oceans. God please only eat plants its the most ethical fucking thing to do
 
As far as my experiences with it those are below. Human beings are omnivores so they require a diverse diet to be healthy according to most scientific common knowledge. I personally do not worry to much about the ethics of all of that other than when it comes to dairy. Milk just makes me sick to my stomach for a myriad of reasons.

I did try out being a vegetarian. I felt rather weak, so I decided is was not gonna work out. That was at a rather young age when I was around family who where vegetarian or vegan.

I had a friend who was vegetarian in high school and she suffered from anemia and when that happened she ate chicken.

I avoid fast food for health and ethical reasons.

I suppose I do enjoy eating a great deal of fruits and vegtables and have no problem eating vegetarian food as healthy food tastes just fine to me. I guess it comes down to the most primal urge to eat meat and I eat whatever I crave and it is not always meat. I try to keep my diet balanced and diverse.

It comes down to the fact that I can't change the world, at least not through this type of thing. Hopefully my art will one day be worth something to other people. I do feel like free speech is always censored and art is not. So that being said I want to use what skills I have when I can to do something meaningful.
 
I switched to vegetarian about 3 months ago when I finally found the path I wanted to take to my spirituality. It's no set religion but one of my favorite spiritual guides talks about how if you must eat meat... you want to choose meats that are the farthest from human beings on the evolutionary time line because as animals evolved so did their memories and experiences and every memory and emotion is stored in every new cell created with each offspring for generations.... I am currently lacto-veg but going to go back ovo-lacto-veg soon enough since eggs aren't fertilized and I can get them local cruelty free.

Plus vegetarian home cooked meals are way cheaper and just as tasty haha.
 
I can see why. I'd go almond or coconut instead of soy though. I already get so much soy in tofu and miso which I use in a lot of my cooking. Can maybe milk a cat instead.
 
Veg food is amazing. I havent eaten meat for 17+ years and love eating vegetarian (and mostly vegan).
Healthy, tasty, more eco-friendly. It's a personal thing; i don't care what people eat - but for me being vego is awesome.
 
I switched to vegetarian about 3 months ago when I finally found the path I wanted to take to my spirituality. It's no set religion but one of my favorite spiritual guides talks about how if you must eat meat... you want to choose meats that are the farthest from human beings on the evolutionary time line because as animals evolved so did their memories and experiences and every memory and emotion is stored in every new cell created with each offspring for generations.... I am currently lacto-veg but going to go back ovo-lacto-veg soon enough since eggs aren't fertilized and I can get them local cruelty free.

Not sure if I buy the theory, but I want to buy it, I'm open to it being real. But it could explain why I feel better eating fish than mammals.

I'm hopefully going on a fishing trip with my friend soon for a bunch of mountain trout... we'll catch the limit and freeze all but the ones we cook that night. :) I'd love to have a freezer full of great local trout, I'd eat fish a lot more often if it wasn't way more expensive.
 
I sometimes miss the convenience of eating meat, but I rarely miss the meat itself. Not on a mission to change people, but for people who don't want to give up meat but want to make positive lifestyle changes, it's useful to consider the environmental impact of the meat you consume.

"According to a study published last year in the journal Environmental Science & Technology, the production of red meat generates, on average, four times more greenhouse-gas emissions than an equivalent amount of chicken or fish, and turns out more carbon-dioxide equivalent than any other food group. Red meat is so resource-intensive, in fact, that if we all cut our consumption of it by one-quarter, the reduction in greenhouse gases would be the same as shifting to a 100 percent locally sourced diet. "(Study: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es702969f )

So simply eliminating or reducing red meat consumption could have a huge impact on a global scale. Not to mention it's more healthy, cheaper and arguably more humane ( I'd kill a chicken over a cow any day). Interestingly, I learned recently that with chickens it is possible to hypnotize them before slaughter. A hypnotized chicken is claimed to be unaware that it is dying or dead. of course that's debatable, but I suspect there's truth to it. Not making this up, apparently Al Gore was a big proponent of this practice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_hypnotism
 
^Would a non-hypnotised chicken know it was dead though? 8o

The greenhouse gas argument is the most compelling argument for meat-eaters IMO. We've just experienced the hottest year on record, just experienced the hottest month. Carbon dioxide release was higher in 2014 than any other year on record. We really need to be doing something about this and now. Reducing red meat consumption and thus production would be a start. I doubt many people will change willingly though. :\

Xorkoth said:
I'm hopefully going on a fishing trip with my friend soon for a bunch of mountain trout... we'll catch the limit and freeze all but the ones we cook that night. I'd love to have a freezer full of great local trout, I'd eat fish a lot more often if it wasn't way more expensive.

Whilst on the subject of hypnotising animals, why not try some trout tickling while you are at it? :D
 
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^Would a non-hypnotised chicken know it was dead though?

Lol, that was a mistake, replace that with "being killed." This is the P&S though so we can't take anything off the table, but we'll save the "does a dead chicken know it's dead" question for another day
 
Well, I don't think it would be 'extinction'. Surely we can reduce the numbers humanely by allowing current livestock to live out their lives whilst reducing the amount of breeding.

You can't really say that these animals get a "good deal" when they live in "hellish" conditions. That makes no sense. I feel like you are arguing that simply existing is better than not existing- a point I discussed earlier and concluded to be ignorant. A terrible existence is worthless.

We simply do not have the resources for the current mass numbers of livestock to live comfortably. The two solutions are barabaric factory farms ('eternal Treblinka') or mass reductions in the consumption of meat. It is clear which side will win that as long as westerners continue to believe it is their right (and healthy!) to eat meat every day. It is not a right at all, it is not healthy and it is unnatural for our species. Thank fuck for India's beliefs about sacred cows and the relative paucity of meat consumption in Chinese culture. If/when these nations begin consuming meat at our levels, goodbye planet earth :|

I think that meat should be made very expensive. I do not partake in meat eating, yet as an earthling, I am deeply affected by those who do. That seems unjust to me. I think meat eaters should be obligated to pay extra for their luxury and for that extra money to be put towards mitigation of the environmental destruction they are perpetrating. The current suffering of farm animals is nothing compared to what is to come to all earthly lifeforms. It angers me that I am going to have suffer so that fat people can continue eating tortured steaks 3 times a day. :D

(I have been thinking about how meat eaters could be held accountable in court of law for their infringement of my rights. Of course, human rights have a distinct cut-off around the point that involves us actually sacrificing anything of ourselves)

the good deal if for their species. notice that for several domesticated animals, the wild version is extinct. on the whole, i heartedly agree with you. especially the part i bolded, but that applied to energy consumption in general, too. the only way to feed all the people on earth and maintain some environmental standard with with a vegetarian diet. if we could rationally and cooperatively manage the oceans, they would provide a huge sustainable source of protein. i consider factory farms to be an abomination. people who would never hurt a kitten think nothing of their cheeseburgers - hating hypocrisy is one thing god and i agree on.

look, consider this:

you need the handle of a shovel or like and a backyard where there are carpenter bees, what my people call bumblebees, where the females make bore nests in wood and the males hover and guard it. the females have black spots on their head and don’t hover, males have yellow spots, hover and *cannot* sting. we used to catch them and let them buzz and pretend it was a radio. so, in this species, males are kinda expendable. if you use a switch, like a stalk from dogfennel, whacking them doesn’t hurt them, they’re back in a minute (i did catch and release experiments as a kid). you know what to do – stalk the hovering globe and whack it with a stick, like the jedi mf you are. it’s NOT easy. if you can’t, get a tennis racket for training wheels. never hit the same bee twice in a day, tomorrow it’s probably another one anyway. after you smack the bastard, bow and thank him for the match. once you can do this, you can take any stick and fuck a mf up with a quickness. no joke, cause you’re quick. tip, distract the bee with your off foot, and they move in predictable ways…and so do bald apes.

right, that's horrible? smacking bees around for sport?

there is a deep meaning to bumblebee baseball. yes, i’m going to go on about the bees again. carpenter bees will literally eat your wooden building down around you – there’s sawdust falling like snow in my shed. they’re worse than termites, and that means that the human race is going to wage war against the species. bumblebee baseball is an alternative: domestication. so long as people enjoy the activity, they have a reason to keep the bees around. my father tried to poison them, and it had no effect at all – i saw no dead bees, but after an hour of exercise, the ground is littered with them. if you actually want to control the numbers, you have to hit the females, but you must leave some. these insects would not have these nests and exist in such numbers if it weren’t for humans, so we make a bargain with them. some of you can use our wood, and prosper, and we get to swat the excess. i believe in ahimsa, non-harming, to my core, but i’m also an ecologist, and this is managing the garden.

evolution isn’t as most people see it, red in tooth and claw. there are layers upon layers of mutualism that make that tiger possible. the chloroplasts in plants and the mitochondria in our cells are mutualistic symbionts. flowering plants and their pollinators dominate the land along with forests and their mycorhizzae, and corals and their symbiotic algaes take a bit part of the oceans. the last major group of symbionts is us: humans and our partner plants and animals. evolutionary biology recognizes another form of evolution outside of genetics, cultural evolution, part of dual inheritance theory. the neolithic age and the green revolution are about this technology. we are now going through a new phase of domestication, with such as the dozens of tropical fish species and hundreds of exotic house plants. there are also peridomesticates, like songbirds that raise an extra brood each year in urban areas, from feeders and urban heat runoff as new species take their part in our collective.

biotechnology is the feedback cycle between information, industrial and agricultural revolutions. cultural evolution and genetic evolution are linked. now, i’m not saying that this is going to go well for our current civilization, but it does herald a new phase of our evolution. thus teilhard de chardin, the jesuit palaeontologist with his ideas of evolution towards godhead. i’ve read that some of his ideas have been tested and shown to be false, but the tests where not all they could be, and in any case, it’s the kind of thing we make true. we could domesticate every species (left) on the planet, make the world our garden. now, among ecologist, this is a touchy idea – many people want large areas of wilderness left alone, which i fully support, but the truth is that those ecosystem are already structured by human impacts and to be complete hands off is irresponsible.

this is the nutty part – if, somehow, we manage to manage our world, then it becomes (and i hate this word) our destiny to spread life to the dead worlds. by then, humanity *is* life on earth and we have the means to take that life elsewhere. we will grow cacti and lichens on mars, plankton in the seas of europa, who knows? living Zeppelins in the atmosphere of jupiter, all of which are children of earth. so, the man on mars thing – no. that’s a publicity stunt and useless. send a dozen robots for half the cost, learn automation and robotics. we lack the technology to build stable closed ecosystems – we can’t even do it here, in the desert. we need a self-sufficient science colony here on earth, in oh, say, Antarctica, somewhere with geothermal heat and ore. we build the best station the world can build, geared toward self-sufficiency. send 500 highly trained people and thereafter they get one shipment of stuff a year, within limits and otherwise have only information contact.the colony is not allowed to hunt, fish or otherwise interact with the local ecosystem. hell, pay for it with reality television, people would be fascinated. that’s the technology we need, and it would probably cost less than the man on mars nonsense.

it's the cruelty i have a problem with, not eating meat. but it should be a luxury item, not daily and it should come from people who know and love the animals.
 
I don't know if I buy it 100% either but I know we're definitely not doing it right in the western world so I've started taking what the ancients in the east passed down for millenia to heart. Gotta get back to our roots as mankind or we're gonna be gone sooner rather than later. I think this realization is what is going to cause the next 2 chromosome leap in evolution with our offspring that tool talks about in 46 and 2.
 
I don't know if I buy it 100% either but I know we're definitely not doing it right in the western world so I've started taking what the ancients in the east passed down for millenia to heart. Gotta get back to our roots as mankind or we're gonna be gone sooner rather than later. I think this realization is what is going to cause the next 2 chromosome leap in evolution with our offspring that tool talks about in 46 and 2.

dude, your ancestors would have considered roadkill a gift from heaven. primitivism is useless. 'the east'? not, mind you, that i don't wear the red, gold and green of mother africa, but still. the next leap in evolution is transhumanism, likely involving genetic engineering.
 
I'm referencing mostly india when talking about elder civilizations. There's something about being content with age old traditions. There's wisdom beyond anything the young USA can muster. But that's honestly just my personal thoughts. I could never grasp western theology. I'm a bit of a woo woo I guess.
 
I'm referencing mostly india when talking about elder civilizations. There's something about being content with age old traditions. There's wisdom beyond anything the young USA can muster. But that's honestly just my personal thoughts. I could never grasp western theology. I'm a bit of a woo woo I guess.

sorry if i was harsh. i am a buddhist, btw. i agree that there is a science of the mind the doesn't require material technology and was mastered long ago. but i'm also a scientist - it's really not woo. buddhist nondualism is actually the proper way of viewing reality, according to modern physics, for example.
 
Gotta get back to our roots as mankind or we're gonna be gone sooner rather than later.

I disagree. Adopting an ideology just because it's old, as a sort of tradition, is misguided in my opinion. People who came up with most of those traditions did not have the knowledge about the world that we do. So we should not revert to ancient... myths. I believe we should base our ideology and policy on evidence. Evidence-based policy is the only rational option in my opinion. And evidence suggests that a meat-based diet is unsustainable for humankind of this size. That is what matters. Whether our children or grandchildren will have an Earth to live on or not, or have to clean up the mess we left them with.
 
okay, postmodernism - every idea you encounter is new to you. the age of the idea is irrelevant - but we look at them for their value, now. and use them, now. i was talking about buddhism, which was very rational in the beginning.
 
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