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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

NPS Act Discussion V2. Novel, Psychoactive, Still here!

That was a dig at American creationists asking "If humans are descended from apes, why are there still apes?" and thinking that is a good argument against the best-supported theory in biology, if not all of science.

EDIT: Evey -- there are also women, of course. Wasn't sure it mattered for the purpose of sending up a stupid argument.
 
That was a dig at American creationists asking "If humans are descended from apes, why are there still apes?" and thinking that is a good argument against the best-supported theory in biology, if not all of science.

Apparently chimps have entered the stone age now. Forget the bronze and iron age, I wonder when they'll start eating psilocybin en masse, show me the stoned age!
 
"Oh, of course I believe in "micro evolution" like that which underlies the antibiotic resistance of many pathogens in modern society, it's just "macro evolution"..."

We're made of exactly the same stuff! =D
 
We're made of exactly the same stuff! =D

That reminded me of a lady I saw on Jeremy Kyle who was on stage shouting about how we all came from 'one piece of sperm'.

She made it sound lumpy.

On topic somehow...the only legal high i've been enjoying are the c-liquid synthetic noids for vape pens, but having perused the dark web I now see that THC infusions have been created, and therefore I must probably evolve too.
 
Where's Ceres when you need a lumpy spunk .gif?!

Oddly I haven't ever tried the infusions of either, I don't think I'd trust any RC vendor to do it properly...
 
It's actually legit convenient, and pleasant an experience. They know how to dissolve powders apparently, and flavour them too.
 
That was a dig at American creationists asking "If humans are descended from apes, why are there still apes?" and thinking that is a good argument against the best-supported theory in biology, if not all of science.

EDIT: Evey -- there are also women, of course. Wasn't sure it mattered for the purpose of sending up a stupid argument.

Ah, now I see. Good one =D
 
I would hope so when it comes to the ridiculously uber potent SCRA's on the market recently, a la MDBD-CHMICA and its 5F- counterpart.
 
MDB out of curiosity why are you going on bupe again when you had an addiction to it and we all helped you off that for ages? You went on Kratom to get off Bupe please don't say you're going back on Bupe to get off Kratom? It isn't gna work you're just gna replace one addicton for another. Yes I know, before anyone says owt, I was thinking of going the Kratom root but not going to as it just prolongs things.
Why don't you just going to kratom withdrawal and be done? Surely it's nothing imp comparison to Subs?

Evey
 
i cant afford to 'go back on bupe'. I just plan to use it occasionally when i get fucking sick of eating kratom all day every day, and when id like to be able to eat something different and not have to plan all my meals around my kratom useage. And also for those rare occasions when i take stronger opis, bupe helps bridge the gap between those and kratom, where there would be brief w/ds otherwise. In much the same way as DHC. Please can you drop this as i only raised it by chance in this thread (where it doesnt even belong) and i dont want a repeat of the original bupe saga in public on here, and im sure no one else does either.
 
Sprout I quite like how you've speparated these two threads into version 1 n version 2.

i cant afford to 'go back on bupe'. I just plan to use it occasionally when i get fucking sick of eating kratom all day every day, and when id like to be able to eat something different and not have to plan all my meals around my kratom useage. And also for those rare occasions when i take stronger opis, bupe helps bridge the gap between those and kratom, where there would be brief w/ds otherwise. In much the same way as DHC. Please can you drop this as i only raised it by chance in this thread (where it doesnt even belong) and i dont want a repeat of the original bupe saga in public on here, and im sure no one else does either.

See E-mail

Evey
 
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I will one day terrify progeny with the bedtime tale of Psychoactive Bill, the elusive creature that steals not the dreams but the drugs of the unfortunate.
Sorta like the Junkie Bogeyman - Junkeyman, if you will.
 
I thought that this was nicely written, so I've plagiarised it as Im bored.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Psychoactive Substances Act" is unenforceable

JULY 2015 - The Tories are warned by their own drug advisers that their proposed drugs bill is unenforceable

JANUARY 2016 - The Tories completely ignore the expert opinion and pass the Psychoactive Substances Bill INTO LAW

MARCH 2016 - The Tories cancel the roll-out of the Psychoactive Substances Act because it is clearly UNENFORCEABLE

In January 2016 the Tories succeeded in putting the ridiculously anti-scientific and irrational Psychoactive Substances Act onto the statute books. This ludicrous and highly controversial piece of legislation which bans the use of substances that don't even exist yet was due to come into force in April 2016 but it has been postponed indefinitely because legal and medical experts alike have told the government that it's so poorly written that it's literally unenforceable.

The Irish evidence the Tories ignored

The Psychoactive Substances Act was modelled on a similar "screw the science - let's ban everything" piece of legislation that was passed in Ireland.

The evidence from Ireland is damning. The Irish "let's just ban everything" bill that was introduced in 2010 led to a dramatic increase of synthetic designer drugs usage from 16 to 22% of the teenage population. Since the ban Ireland has experienced the second fastest rate of increased synthetic designer drug usage in the entire EU, and by far the highest overall rate of usage.

Any politician who gives the remotest damn about the legislation they are voting into law must surely consider the consequences of the original bit of legislation it is designed to copy. However it's absolutely clear that hundreds of Tory MPs didn't scrutinise the evidence at all. All those MPs just voted in the way Theresa May told them to regardless of the stack of negative evidence.

If anyone needed any further proof that the right-wing authoritarian prohibitionist mentality is based on ideology and not evidence, then this is it.

Unenforceability


The Irish evidence shows that hardly anyone has been prosecuted under their version of the bill because of difficulties over the term "psychoactive". Unless an expert can be found to prove that the novel compound actually does produce a psychoactive effect, then the prosecution could never succeed.

It's not like it's any kind of surprise that this staggeringly inept piece of legislation is unenforceable, the Tories were warned by their own drug advisers that it would be unenforceable in July 2015, long before they decided to vote it into law regardless.

The fact that Theresa May completely disregarded the concerns of the government's own drugs advisers and pushed ahead with this utterly flawed piece of legislation is bad enough, but the fact that her fellow MPs simply voted such idiocy into law because they were told to by the party whips is probably even worse.

Warped priorities

The gobbledygook legislation leads to a bizarre situation that the first research into the effects of novel compounds that people are taking for recreational purposes won't be to determine whether they're actually safe for human consumption, it'll be to determine whether the compounds have any "psychoactive effects" in order to provide evidence to support prosecution of the vendor, regardless of whether the compound is actually harmful or not!

A piece of legislation which generates such warped research priorities is clearly absurd. However what is even more absurd is the way that Theresa May and the Tories have set the propaganda narrative that this dangerously incoherent, anti-scientific, evidence-ignoring, weird priority creating rubbish is necessary in order to "protect the public".

Regulation vs prohibition


The ban in Ireland led to a wave of closures of so-called "head shops", but the huge rise in usage since the ban came into effect (as detailed above) proves that the ban simply drove the market for novel psychoactive compounds underground.

The rational drugs policy argument is that the sale of recreational drugs should be legalised, taxed and regulated. The tax money could be used to conduct research into the actual effects of the drugs (harms, addictiveness, safe dosage levels etc), provide unbiased safety information for users, enforce market regulation andprovide rehabilitation for the minority who become problem users. Even after taking those costs into account there would be plenty left over from the taxes raised to contribute towards other socially beneficial things like the NHS or the education system.

Nobody sane is arguing for a drugs free-for-all where powerful psychoactive compounds and addictive substances are sold alongside the kids' sweets in supermarkets. The ideal places would be licensed and regulated pharmacists and "head shops".

The prohibitionist ideology results in drugs market being handed over to criminal gangs with no compunctions about selling to children and vulnerable people, drug pushing, hawking adulterated substances and dangerously irregular doses, and pay no tax on their profits either.

Surely if "head shops" are selling potentially dangerous substances, then the rational solution would be to regulate them, rather than introducing legislation designed to put them out of business and transfer control of the entire market to completely unregulated and untaxed black market gangs?

Why do novel designer drugs even exist?


Even if we neglect the fact that this botched piece of legislation is so incoherently drafted that it's unenforceable, the slightest examination of the claim that it's meant to crack down on dangerous "legal highs", presents a huge problem for the ideologically driven prohibitionist to explain.

It's beyond doubt that the rise of synthetic drugs like Spice are a direct consequence of the prohibition of drugs like cannabis (the naturally occurring substance that Spice has been designed to imitate).

If people are taking potentially harmful synthetic drugs to imitate the effects of a relatively harmless naturally occurring substance that humans have been consuming for at least ten thousand years, surely the sensible solution is to end prohibition of the relatively harmless substance rather than hand control of the market for the synthetic substitute over to unregulated, untaxed criminal gangs too?

Swimming against the tide


In seeking to further criminalise people who take psychoactive substances the Westminster political class are swimming against the political tide. Despite decades of fearmongering lies and rhetoric in the pages of the right-wing press, utterly bizarre government propaganda campaigns and absurd anti-drugs propaganda dressed up as independent drugs advice from organisations like Talk to Frank, public opinion is gradually moving against ideological prohibitionism and towards rational drugs policies.

The legislative tide is turning across the world. Several countries have decriminalised drug use and others have gone further, fully legalising the use of previously banned substances. Uruguay has fully legalised cannabis, Portugal has decriminalised all drugs (leading to a rapid decline in crime and drug related deaths), possession of small amounts of drugs has been decriminalised in Ecuador, the Czech Republic and Costa Rica too, Argentina has recognised the right to take psychoactive substances as a constitutional right, and even in the US (the country that pushed ideologically driven prohibitionism on the rest of the world in the first place) cannabis has been fully legalised in five states, decriminalised in fourteen other states and decriminalised for medical use in eleven others.

In October 2015 the United Nations were due to announce a relaxation in their stance on recreational drugs use, but apparently one country vetoed the change of policy towards the decriminalisation of recreational drugs use. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the country that vetoed the policy change announcement was the United Kingdom, given the way the Westminster establishment seem so desperately keen to swim against the global tide that is flowing towards rational drugs policy and away from ideologically driven prohibitionism.

Conclusion


The fact that such an absurdly incoherent, anti-scientific, evidence-ignoring and unworkable piece of legislation found its way onto the statute books in the first place is damning evidence of Theresa May's incompetence, and the pathetic way in which Tory MPs vote stuff into law without even listening to expert opinion or thinking about whether the legislation is even coherently written, simply because they're told to by the party whips.

Not only are the Tories determined to swim against the tide by bringing in even more ideologically driven right-wing authoritarian prohibitionist policies while much of the rest of the world has finally started listening to expert opinion and begun moving towards rational drugs policies, the legislation the Tories have come up with is so incoherently drafted that it's literally unenforceable!

(from 'Another Angry Voice' by Thomas G. Clark)
 
The Wicked Witch, the Rt Hon. (HuH?) Theresa May has no intention of letting go of this crazy ideology, this portion in a very recent newspaper reflects this,

Police Scotland and the Scottish government told a Commons home affairs inquiry last year that that the definition of a psychoactive substance might be problematic in ensuring successful convictions.
They argued that each successful case would require evidence from a qualified medical expert with experience of working with new psychoactive substances to be able to identify the substance and prove its psychoactivity.
A Home Office spokesperson said that in line with advice from its drugs experts on the ACMD “the government is inthe final stages of putting in place a programme of testing to demonstrate a substance’s psychoactivity prior to commencement of the act”.
I emailed UK LEAP this morning regarding this psychopathic Government legislation and I enclose part copies of our communication obviously because I've had to delete my emai address and real name. Tricky.

To............. .................

CC[email protected]





Hi ...............,

Neil Woods here. Thanks for the contact and support. I'm sorry for the short answer but it is pursued by governments because they follow ideology instead of evidence.
I agree with all your thoughts and observations! This is why we keep campaigning for an evidence based policy


Best regards


Neil

On Thursday, 14 April 2016, caroline pittman <[email protected]> wrote:
Name: ........... ............

Email:..................

Comment: I would like to know, given all the information I have read so far on this site where LEAP stands on the Governments tactics on bringing in such stringent action on this blanket ban of psychoactive substances? I would be interested. (please forgive my ignorance if I have missed this information) Obviously this ban has been delayed, but Rt, Hon Theresa May appears to be like a dog with a bone on this issue that if the consequences weren't going to be so diabolical would be comical. Given the facts regarding the current legislation on drugs surely this will only lead to more deaths, wastage of valuable resources and more dangerous vendors mixing even more lethal chemicals that A&E and paramedics will be in no position to treat. Let alone further waste of police time and border control and the Court/prison systems. I would be interested to know your thoughts as professionals on this further decline in UK drug policy compared to the rest of the world and why exactly do you feel this agenda is of such importance to the Government, given the many hundreds of more pressing issues. It is not in the best interest of the UK citizens because if it were quite obviously the exemptions list would not be drawn up as it is. So I'm basically asking you why?..I don't know whether you can answer but I thought it was worth asking.
Thanking you in advance for your time.
Kind Regards
............... ................

Time: April 14, 2016 at 11:43 am

I wrote to them because I 'feel' that this issue is not going to simply disappear without a battle and I am obviously not the only one. Another article I found profoundly disturbing is these last two paragraphs, the link is

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ban-thrown-into-confusion-by-european-report/

There were also concerning links between drugs and terrorism, the report said, particularly "potential links to the financing of terrorist organisations".
Some terrorists "may have a history of low-level criminality, including drug use or involvement in the drug market, and exploit their criminal links to conduct their terrorist activities in a range of ways," it went on.







 
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