Regional Pills/MD(M)A Discussion V. I don't understand this chemical waffle

[Small_town_casual]

Out of curiosity, if you reagent test the UFO, what colour do you get from marquis?

I don't know I just eat them

 

[ABPI_]

124 raids, 55 arrests, and 55kg of drugs (mdma) found at 6 drug labs in the Netherlands today

https://translate.google.nl/transla...invallen-55-arrestaties-en-55-kilo-drugs.html

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/25533388/__Drugspand_Best_gesloten__.html
The police action came from an investigation of a criminal meeting place. A party-clothes-rental store called "Party King"


http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/04/04/politieinvallen-in-ruim-honderd-panden-in-zuid-nederland
They screened around 700 people who visited "Party King" for criminal activity


This is such a bullshit bust its quite funny, 55kgs is nothing, drop in the ocean, and it took years for this investigation against "the party king"?? The other labs pumping out tons every week are laughing.

 

[MiniNapalm]

Comedown Rule number 1: Weed is your friend

Just seen your red devil PR - sounds promising! Any chance of a pic of the pill/reactions?

Also, do you reckon they're Dutch or domestic mate?

 

[PartTimeRaver]

not seen the PR but ive seen red devils advertised as a 170 mg uk press

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Don't post pics due to exif and paranoia.

THE LAB RAT said - all reactions as described and all suggesting MDMA. no confirm on source nor would the lab rat ask.

As always reagent tests are limited to telling you presence not quality or other active cuts. They did all appear solid colours without any hazy edges or flashes prior to end colour showing. Lab rat has seen flashes before with AMP / RC / MD combo pills.

Tests were run with fresh reagents.

THE LAB RAT ran a dutch and this one back to back. Marquis went straight to black on dutch (known to be 180 - 200mg) and very deep dark purple on the Red devil. Mandelin results did similar but less pronounced more of a subtle difference with more purple hue on the devil.

Differing % of marquis and pill amounts were also tested to see if there was a possibility this could lead to another interpretation of results. No this was not the case clearly dutch went black devil went deep dark purple.

Really there is not enough data, evidence or correct analytical control of this test to make any assumptions and pill has not been consumed. I no longer consume MD. It is purely anecdotal so please this is not a stamp of approval in anyway. If i do get a user report and they wish to share it then of course it will be shared.

However hopefully some of you guys will go and invest for less than £ 20 in a kit and start to use them so we can actually get community data, evidence etc. only together could we get the data to support theory of reagent colours, and more importantly possibly save your life.

I Repeat - £ 20 for months of safe testing, knowing you have at least some knowledge of what you are taking and possibly saving your life- £ 20!!! FFS.

 

[MiniNapalm]

Don't post pics due to exif and paranoia.

THE LAB RAT said - all reactions as described and all suggesting MDMA. no confirm on source nor would the lab rat ask.

As always reagent tests are limited to telling you presence not quality or other active cuts. They did all appear solid colours without any hazy edges or flashes prior to end colour showing. Lab rat has seen flashes before with AMP / RC / MD combo pills.

Tests were run with fresh reagents.

THE LAB RAT ran a dutch and this one back to back. Marquis went straight to black on dutch (known to be 180 - 200mg) and very deep dark purple on the Red devil. Mandelin results did similar but less pronounced more of a subtle difference with more purple hue on the devil.

Differing % of marquis and pill amounts were also tested to see if there was a possibility this could lead to another interpretation of results. No this was not the case clearly dutch went black devil went deep dark purple.

Really there is not enough data, evidence or correct analytical control of this test to make any assumptions and pill has not been consumed. I no longer consume MD. It is purely anecdotal so please this is not a stamp of approval in anyway. If i do get a user report and they wish to share it then of course it will be shared.

However hopefully some of you guys will go and invest for less than £ 20 in a kit and start to use them so we can actually get community data, evidence etc. only together could we get the data to support theory of reagent colours, and more importantly possibly save your life.

I Repeat - £ 20 for months of safe testing, knowing you have at least some knowledge of what you are taking and possibly saving your life- £ 20!!! FFS.

Thanks for the comprehensive response, Itsgoneundertheboat.

Noted and agreed regarding not making assumptions based on a single reagent test. I test all MD prior to consumption, however it's helpful to have intel to (hopefully) narrow down the search for quality - so cheers for making the report.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/cream-boxing-day-deaths-updates-11014910

Two deaths, two unconnected people, two apparently new / light users, two different pill types, same night.

One green (no other information). Other described as orange 'Dutch' rock hard pill (possible dutch lion). Friends who took the same pills were ok, just had standard experiences. Toxicology says death from MDMA both cases, no other substance, although both had been drinking alcohol.

Possible reporting error - User of the 'dutch'. The young guys friend bought 3 pills before event. The young guy who died takes a full one, friend takes a half, then it says they took another half each 50 minutes later then another half each later again? They found 1 pill in the poor deceased guys pocket. My maths doesn't give me 3 that makes 4.5?

RIP and condolences to the families in what must be a very difficult time.

 

[oui]

Anyone tried the latest batch of Red Supremes that have hit the UK? Read that they turn a dark purple and one report said "these are the best beans I've had since the late 90s mitsubishis"

Sounds promising?

 

[oui]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/cream-boxing-day-deaths-updates-11014910

Two deaths, two unconnected people, two apparently new / light users, two different pill types, same night.

One green (no other information). Other described as orange 'Dutch' rock hard pill (possible dutch lion). Friends who took the same pills were ok, just had standard experiences. Toxicology says death from MDMA both cases, no other substance, although both had been drinking alcohol.

Possible reporting error - User of the 'dutch'. The young guys friend bought 3 pills before event. The young guy who died takes a full one, friend takes a half, then it says they took another half each 50 minutes later then another half each later again? They found 1 pill in the poor deceased guys pocket. My maths doesn't give me 3 that makes 4.5?

RIP and condolences to the families in what must be a very difficult time.

So they tested the Orange Dutch (Possible Lion) found in the guys pocket and it came back as MDMA. That kind of puts my mind to rest as I have one. Sounds like he took way too much and went into Cardiac Arrest? Happened my mate a few years ago, took way too many pills - luckily his mates who where with him rang and ambulance at his request and the paramedics told him on the way to hospital that he if he hadn't of he could be a goner.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Correct as the report says - young guy died of cardiac arrest at / on way to hospital due to MDMA (alcohol also consumed) possible due to dose - at least 1 up to possible 2.5 'dutch' (if Lions approx 170 - 420 mg?) taken in a short space of time.

Older guy of complications due to complete and multiple organ failure from just one single drop, although he was kept on life support for a couple of days after. Cause of death MDMA (alcohol also consumed and appears he had been drinking for awhile before taking).

i don't want to preach and i know there are many experienced users on the forum but perhaps just to remind and pass the message to those less experienced;

We still know very little about effects of MDMA person to person and what could be a toxic / dangerous to life dose but this horrific night and from personal experience in club land - carefully consider first before you drop and be safe.

What we do know is taking alcohol, large doses MDMA / inexperience and a hot club do not make for a good mix. It is really a message to everyone that if you do decide to drop even a substance you know is MDMA take care.

Take half if you don't know the strength
Don't take more if it isn't working (wait at least 1 and a half hours)
Don't mix alcohol it has a direct impact on your organs and how they work to process the MDMA and it also reduces both the effects (but not the negative ones). Remember people often take a decision under the influence of alcohol they wouldn't have made if they had not taken alcohol
Take regular breaks,
Cool down,
Water or better still isotonic drinks regular sips.
Remember that taking more doesn't make the experience any better it just changes it.

If you feel unwell in anyway seek medical help, there is no bravado in risking your life to try and appear straight and in control when you are not.

Perhaps the most important one - don't leave or lose contact with your friends, if they are drinking alcohol bear in it in mind. Friends are a life line. Even if it is just to have time to chill make sure you know where they are and plan to always meet up regularly. Both cases these guys lost sight of friends for extended periods.

 

[Sprodo]

Anyone tried the latest batch of Red Supremes that have hit the UK? Read that they turn a dark purple and one report said "these are the best beans I've had since the late 90s mitsubishis"

Sounds promising?

Seen these too and only ever seen good reports of the originals. May take a gamble as not that expensive...

Correct as the report says - young guy died of cardiac arrest at / on way to hospital due to MDMA (alcohol also consumed) possible due to dose - at least 1 up to possible 2.5 'dutch' (if Lions approx 170 - 420 mg?) taken in a short space of time.

Older guy of complications due to complete and multiple organ failure from just one single drop, although he was kept on life support for a couple of days after. Cause of death MDMA (alcohol also consumed and appears he had been drinking for awhile before taking).

i don't want to preach and i know there are many experienced users on the forum but perhaps just to remind and pass the message to those less experienced;

We still know very little about effects of MDMA person to person and what could be a toxic / dangerous to life dose but this horrific night and from personal experience in club land - carefully consider first before you drop and be safe.

What we do know is taking alcohol, large doses MDMA / inexperience and a hot club do not make for a good mix. It is really a message to everyone that if you do decide to drop even a substance you know is MDMA take care.

Take half if you don't know the strength
Don't take more if it isn't working (wait at least 1 and a half hours)
Don't mix alcohol it has a direct impact on your organs and how they work to process the MDMA and it also reduces both the effects (but not the negative ones). Remember people often take a decision under the influence of alcohol they wouldn't have made if they had not taken alcohol
Take regular breaks,
Cool down,
Water or better still isotonic drinks regular sips.
Remember that taking more doesn't make the experience any better it just changes it.

If you feel unwell in anyway seek medical help, there is no bravado in risking your life to try and appear straight and in control when you are not.

Perhaps the most important one - don't leave or lose contact with your friends, if they are drinking alcohol bear in it in mind. Friends are a life line. Even if it is just to have time to chill make sure you know where they are and plan to always meet up regularly. Both cases these guys lost sight of friends for extended periods.

This is interesting. Like everyone been loving the Dutch lions but surprised to see this death when it happened and glad we are getting more detail. I have usually taken initial dose of 1x and it is a pretty intense come up , so not surprised any more put people in danger especially if unexperienced. Do you have a link to press on the post mortem?

Interesting to hear about alcohol, not many of my group take a lot of notice of dangers of mixing. Would not be unusual before going out for a few of us to have a few pints, few JD or Vodkas and then a couple more in a club before taking anything. While probably nicely tipsy never really felt in danger. That said I always stop drinking at that point but maybe have 1 or 2 while coming down to level out.

Has there been much research on MDMA with alcohol ? Limits etc

 

[Small_town_casual]

Anyone tried the latest batch of Red Supremes that have hit the UK? Read that they turn a dark purple and one report said "these are the best beans I've had since the late 90s mitsubishis"

Sounds promising?

I loved the original supremes, new ones are flatter and bugger apparently, I had 3 supremes seized off me the other week by police the baststds good dissent them

 

[Fug]

Had some MDMA on friday, the crystal I'd procured at an insanely cheap price that I was wary of a while back.

140mg bomb to begin with, wasn't mad with energy, but still had a great time just chilling out with friends, cuddling, lolling and what not. Music sounded amazing. An hour and a half into it, I redosed 140mg and had a lovely level high the whole night.

Other people were snorting it at random intervals and didn't seem to be enjoying it as much as I was. They also drank a fuck ton more. I wasn't going around hugging everyone and the empathy levels weren't that high. If anything I was wary of house party randomers who kept walking into the room.

No real come down to speak of, just exhaustion from staying up all night.

If this is the 'mongy' shit that everyone is complaining about, it really isn't THAT bad.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Alcohol and MDMA. Alcohol is a depressant and a diuretic. MDMA is a stimulant and an anti Diruetic (ever had problems taking a piss on MDMA?). Straight away we have direct polar opposites so as a drug combo they are not matched in any way.

The alcohol slows the brain and central nervous system down. The MDMA tries to speed it up. Both cause dehydration. Our bodies are essentially a finely tuned bag of water, we are 60% water. If the balance alters and we become dehydrated this places huge stress on the bodily organs and functions. If the % drops even just a little this can and does lead to sustained damage to the body. MDMA raises body temperature and reduces the ability of the body to heat regulate, then you throw in alcohol and its a double whammy.

It dramatically increases the risk of heat stroke, high blood pressure, the strain on the heart and potential for heart attack etc. Alcohol and MDMA also directly impacts on the liver and kidney function, the liver and kidneys being your main method of breaking down the MDMA and the alcohol.

An alcoholic drink provides little to no (stronger the drink less it provides) hydration (water uptake) but it fools the body into thinking it does. So one pint becomes way more toxic to your body when you have taken MDMA. It is also well known that MDMA reduces the feeling of being drunk so people drink more, or at least think they can.

In addition alcohol reduces inhibition and the ability to make good decisions is reduced. Combining it with another chemical which also reduces inhibition like MDMA makes someone more prone to making a stupid decision. Alcohol is also proven to reduce the effect of MDMA. This creates another dangerous scenario where people take more MDMA or Alcohol to chase a buzz, placing even greater strain on the internal organs and the toxicity.

Now throw in a hot club lots of dancing and you have the recipe for disaster.

Getting battered on alcohol before dropping dramatically increases the risk of something bad happening. It also increases the possibility that any previously unknown condition such as a weak heart, poor function liver / kidney / pancreas etc. will set off the condition in the worst possible way - failure of that organ.

The way in which people take MDMA has changed a lot. Raves used to have no alcohol or at most low strength beer, people never wanted to drink on MDMA because MDMA alone was enough. Alcohol was seen as the demon of society by the majority of MDMA users, it was what mum and dad did or the local tory MP. However demographic and a change in social sphere of MDMA has contributed to a much higher % of people going out getting drunk then dropping MDMA as a way of extending the night.

As stated people experienced with MDMA already know the effect of taking alcohol with the drug. Its not very rewarding and just gives one hell of a hangover the next day (hangovers being a combination of factors including dehydration).

Fact - If Alcohol was discovered as a new drug now it would be immediately class A. Its addictiveness and toxicity rank alongside Heroin, Crystal Meth and Cocaine as the most dangerous to human health. Alcohol is in fact ethanol which is poisonous to the human body. We all know stories of the demon drink. MDMA (pure and tested of course) is seen as far less of a danger on its own. Being the illegal one however MDMA will always be the bad guy. One thing is however very clear MDMA and Alcohol have been reported in more deaths than just MDMA alone or taking a dodgy pill.

@ Fug correct it isn't that bad its just not as good as it should be and a bit of a shallow experience. Once you've been to the top of Everest any other mountain doesn't seem as high.

 

[Fug]

@ Fug correct it isn't that bad its just not as good as it should be and a bit of a shallow experience. Once you've been to the top of Everest any other mountain doesn't seem as high.

Good post boa - and yep the last good high (As in amazing), was from a single pill I'd saved from a few years back, can't for the life of me remember the press, but took it at a festival a few months ago and it was beautiful. Felt such a connection to everyone, was dancing away, generally just having something I can look back at as one of my favourite night's ever - now compare that singular pill to 300mg of this crystal i've got and it really was a whole other high. Not bad just different, general lack of 'awe'.

 

[MiniNapalm]

The way in which people take MDMA has changed a lot. Raves used to have no alcohol or at most low strength beer, people never wanted to drink on MDMA because MDMA alone was enough.high.

Can completely identify with this - when I first started taking MD about 21 years ago, me and my mate didn't drink for about 2 years - our logic was why would we settle for a far inferior drug?! These days polydrug use is the norm, but you're quite right to remind us of its hazards.

On a mostly unrelated note, I have got samples for testing of the blue tesla, blue Lamborghini and yellow and orange Lego bricks. I also received light grey crystal which I haven't had before - the last year and half all I've got has been sandy coloured and frankly quite mongy, so I haven't bothered for ages. I reagent tested all 4 pills and the MD - here are the marquis results:

The pills all reacted quite similarly in terms of timing when turning black (with a bit of purple around the edges) - took about 10 seconds. The MD however fizzed like it was alive and changed quickly to dark purple. I thought this warranted a close up, however unfortunately as with lots of things, it's not as easy to see the true colour in the pictures as it is in reality.

I'm taking a break at the moment, so not sure if/when I'll try any of these, but has anyone had any experience with any pills or MD that look similar?

 

[Sprout]

Re: MDMA, Alcohol and Hydration.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Agree to the ADH argument, perfect sense and read your original post at the time. These days certainly a couple of beers as a warmer before the Q or when you get in goes without saying. Although this is perhaps more simply because the rave moved into the club and the club wants you to drink. The club makes it money from getting you to drink.

Although I'm fairly certain you don't advocate in the post or subsequent - having large amounts of alcohol?

My post was more relative to a much larger volume of alcohol than just 3 or 4 units (literally 1 - 2 pints of beer or 3 - 4 alkiepops) which, theoretically in a healthy individual, will not put to much strain on the liver kidneys etc.

But going out drinking several pints, shots or whatever your poison and then using MDMA to lengthen a night out will be a totally differing scenario dramatically increasing the potential risks. Urine retention is but a minimal factor in the mix once the amount of alcohol is at higher levels?

? does MDMA and Alcohol potentiate sexual activity? possibly for ladies or adonis guys. Alas for me i kind of disagree. As a simple bloke chances of getting a jump from a random when your swedging your nuts off and pissed as a mofo never worked even with the thickest beer goggles on, regrettably and christ did i try.

Larger volumes of alcohol also reduce the ability to make an informed decision in other ways? IE initial reduced inhibition to the danger of taking, then the scenario of I've dropped a pill loose track of timing, get more mashed than you would of been due to the alcohol and then whoops I just dropped another pill. Just like Benzo's people do very silly things on alcohol which can lead very quickly to dangerous behaviour ESPECIALLY when you have more drugs on you than you were not meaning to consume or they are readily available.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Can completely identify with this - when I first started taking MD about 21 years ago, me and my mate didn't drink for about 2 years - our logic was why would we settle for a far inferior drug?! These days polydrug use is the norm, but you're quite right to remind us of its hazards.

On a mostly unrelated note, I have got samples for testing of the blue tesla, blue Lamborghini and yellow and orange Lego bricks. I also received light grey crystal which I haven't had before - the last year and half all I've got has been sandy coloured and frankly quite mongy, so I haven't bothered for ages. I reagent tested all 4 pills and the MD - here are the marquis results:

The pills all reacted quite similarly in terms of timing when turning black (with a bit of purple around the edges) - took about 10 seconds. The MD however fizzed like it was alive and changed quickly to dark purple. I thought this warranted a close up, however unfortunately as with lots of things, it's not as easy to see the true colour in the pictures as it is in reality.

I'm taking a break at the moment, so not sure if/when I'll try any of these, but has anyone had any experience with any pills or MD that look similar?

fizzing is something to do with free salts (HCL?)and not really a sign of much else. Its difficult as you say to see the colours but they do all appear VERY similar bar the crystal.

They appear black / brown and look similar to a dutch pill (original domino) tested earlier this week. What you will find is that if you try to use a very small amount of the pill (as it appears you did) the colours will be a lot easier to see. If you use a large amount it will appear black in the centre and purple to the edges. Often it helps to angle the plate after the test and watch the colours as they run. Often you see the difference better this way and know when you get deep purple or just brown / black.

If you have the time take a look at Ecstasydata.org. All their reagent tests are there to see if you click on the substance, except for pills where it shows the MG content (these results come from other test centres such as Zurich). Even they report the colour difference - black, brown, purple and then state MDMA.

 

[Sprout]

Agree to the ADH argument, perfect sense and read your original post at the time. These days certainly a couple of beers as a warmer before the Q or when you get in goes without saying. Although this is perhaps more simply because the rave moved into the club and the club wants you to drink. The club makes it money from getting you to drink.

Although I'm fairly certain you don't advocate in the post or subsequent - having large amounts of alcohol?

My post was more relative to a much larger volume of alcohol than just 3 or 4 units (literally 1 - 2 pints of beer or 3 - 4 alkiepops) which, theoretically in a healthy individual, will not put to much strain on the liver kidneys etc.

But going out drinking several pints, shots or whatever your poison and then using MDMA to lengthen a night out will be a totally differing scenario dramatically increasing the potential risks. Urine retention is but a minimal factor in the mix once the amount of alcohol is at higher levels?

? does MDMA and Alcohol potentiate sexual activity? possibly for ladies or adonis guys. Alas for me i kind of disagree. As a simple bloke chances of getting a jump from a random when your swedging your nuts off and pissed as a mofo never worked even with the thickest beer goggles on, regrettably and christ did i try.

Larger volumes of alcohol also reduce the ability to make an informed decision in other ways? IE initial reduced inhibition to the danger of taking, then the scenario of I've dropped a pill loose track of timing, get more mashed than you would of been due to the alcohol and then whoops I just dropped another pill. Just like Benzo's people do very silly things on alcohol which can lead very quickly to dangerous behaviour ESPECIALLY when you have more drugs on you than you were not meaning to consume or they are readily available.

Certainly the risks are amplified when it comes to "much larger" amounts of Alcohol in combination, the reasons being almost limitless. However, the importance of urinary output and electrolyte levels is just as significant in either instance, simply magnified in the case of liquor-drenching.

The highly acidic nature of most drinks hampers absorption of MDMA from the outset, not to mention the worsened GI irritation leading to vomiting, diarrhoea and general discomfort. Then there's the impaired cognition directly opposing any real depth, insight or clarity. Can't forget the CNS depression and subsequent aspiration of vomit when the inherent nausea from 5-HT2a/b/c activity combines with the respiratory suppression. The lack of temperature sensitivity induced by booze is dangerous when it prevents the inherent discomfort from dehydration and hyperthermia forcing the drinking of something... anything!, that is if the impaired motor coordination allows one to move at all. Then there's the issues from the caffeine in your ubiquitous vodka/red bull affecting circulation. I like to remember my nights, oddly enough, so the amplified amnesia is quite a downer, for me at least.
I could keep going...