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I WANT to get clean

aq. said:
Thanks so much. how much loperamide? I've never heard of tianeptine, just did a quick Google search on it though, not sure where I would get it? I'm really anxious about how this week will play out.
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Best thing is to Google it and read about it on BL. There is an abundance of good information about Loperamide here on BL. Just do a lot of reading and then decide which way you want to go. I wish you the best and hope you get the Suboxone script, that would be the best course of action.
 
aq. said:
Thanks for your honesty cj, I appreciate it. I'll call on Monday to see what's up. She didn't specifically say to go in withdrawal, I asked her and she said "well it would be great if you don't use..." She was kind of vague. I'll get a more clear answer hopefully when I call.
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That's because as we all know, you can't take suboxone with opiates still on your receptors. Precipitated withdrawal is painful.

They likely won't say "yes we will dose you when you get here" because that's some form of promise they can't necessarily deliver on, without the right COWS score.

Don't worry sweetie, don't over think things, just keep moving forward. You got this <3

cj said:
This one guy said doing counseling while I was on methadone was pointless because methadone is the same as heroin.
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I can't believe a "professional" said that man, that's really sad.

There's certainly a point in it, as I'm sure you know. <3

twoxtwo said:
Legally when you get prescribed Suboxone you are supposed to have counseling along with it. In my state anyway, I always assumed that was a federal law.
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That must be just your state.
 
You need to be in withdrawal before you go on subs because of the Buprenorphine n naloxone. If you are not in moderate to severe WD (google cows scale) n you take subs you'll be thrown into the worst WD. This is because the suboxone literally knocks any form of opiate off the receptors. It's better to be in moderate to severe WD than PWD. However I would not recommend you doing this for the initial appointment because if they're anything like treatment here they'll want a urine sample to test for H n proving you're an addict. Otherwise anyone could say they're an addict to get on a sub programme. A good doctor will induct you slowly n increase over a number of days.

Good luck n sorry to hear of your relapse. You're welcome to Message me if ever you need someone to talk to.

Evey
 
Good to hear that you want to get clean and are determined. Please don't be frightened of withdrawal: all addicts fear the process but no one's died of it or been seriously ill. It's unpleasant, feels like the ends of the earth and it seems to take forever. It does-most of the physical symptoms start dialing down at 5-7 days. But you don't have to go through full blown withdrawal with suboxen or without.

Nobody gets a free pass even with subs but it makes the process bearable. I don't know if you want to get on maintenance or want to do a fast taper off. But please use the time to plan what's next, how are you going to maintain sobriety.

Good luck and let us know?
 
Like everyone has said yes you need to be in acute withdrawal so they can determine a dose which stabilizes you. You will be dosed right in the office. I don't know of many sub doctors who are just trying to taper you off of heroin, they usually want you on maintenance because that's how they make their money. Depending on how long you have had an issue with opiates maintenance may not be a bad idea. Good luck.
 
How are you holding up aq? I thought about this thread yesterday when I came across some old suboxone strip packets in a drawer. Sub is a really mixed bag in my experience. On the one hand I think it saved my life by giving me an option to fall back on when I ran out of heroin so I didn't have to steal or do shady stuff to get more money. On the other hand it didn't really help my addiction so the argument could be made it prolonged my misery. Thinking back on all the people I have known in real life I can only think of one IV heroin user who was significantly helped by sub. The rest of the outcomes fell somewhere between total failure and partial success with most people ending up in a similar limbo to the one I found myself in. Still using heroin but not having to really deal with the sickness when out.

So I guess my advice is too know thine own self. If you are 100 percent done getting high to the point where it holds no pull over you then sub might be a good call. But if your like I was and still loved heroin just hated the consequences that come with it still might be the answer. Just don't expect suboxone to make you not want to use heroin. I think that is the biggest misconception people have is that sub significantly helps cravings. It doesn't.
 
There are no reasons whatsoever to go through withdrawals in any phase of getting off of heroin! As any experienced and competent psychiatrist will tell you, if you plan your detox responsibly with gradually tapering the subs, you won't have to deal with wd's, the physical part of it.
You just need to take them in time, when heroin weans off, usually after 24 h, sometimes more, sometimes less, it's quite individual and depends on your personal metabolism. When you feel the first signs of wd's then it's safe to take it with no fear of going through precipitated wd's, that can be more unpleasant than the regular ones; happened to me twice, thank god I had H delivered in half an hour, that just managed my physical withdrawals,it didn't get me high, and since then I am pretty carefull with subs. I prefer methadone, or the combo of the two -- first 8 to 10 days I take methadone and after gradually lowering the doage to minimum, I switch to as low as possible doses of suboxone/buprenorphine. Then I stick to subs for ,5 days, until I taper it to 1/0.5 mg. And I never felt ANY withdrawals, maybe some chills, or hot cold flushes, but I take catapressan that deals with it pretty efficiently.
 
cj said:
So I guess my advice is too know thine own self. If you are 100 percent done getting high to the point where it holds no pull over you then sub might be a good call. But if your like I was and still loved heroin just hated the consequences that come with it still might be the answer. Just don't expect suboxone to make you not want to use heroin. I think that is the biggest misconception people have is that sub significantly helps cravings. It doesn't.
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Does anything help with cravings? Ppl who claim that subutex/methadone/any-other-substitute minimize or eliminate their cravings probably have bigger power of autosuggestion than the rest of us. Nothing will make u crave less! It's a time binding process, an effort that requires psychobabble bs .
 
Thank you all SO much! I'm getting more nervous the closer I get to my appointment. It seems all so serious. I know heroin addiction is no joke, I just feel intimidated. I have to go to the hospital and get my labs and then go to the doctors personal office for what I imagine to be my dose? A lot has been on my mind. I'm thinking of writing to my old doctor and asking her for support. We had an awesome relationship, but she went to another office out of state. I just feel like I need a lot of people around me to support me. I've even contemplated telling my parents. I want to be on the road to recovery. I've played this game long enough. I'm going to be 25 years old. Enough of this shit.
 
If your not in clear withdrawals you're not going to get that dose. If you do you're likely not going to be siked. I would call up the office and ask them if you should present in withdrawals so that you can obtain the medication at the appointment. If this is the case then I would not use any opiate for 24 to 36 hours before the appointment time.

Your all good aq.. you're going to figure this out!!
 
aq. said:
Thank you all SO much! I'm getting more nervous the closer I get to my appointment. It seems all so serious. I know heroin addiction is no joke, I just feel intimidated. I have to go to the hospital and get my labs and then go to the doctors personal office for what I imagine to be my dose? A lot has been on my mind. I'm thinking of writing to my old doctor and asking her for support. We had an awesome relationship, but she went to another office out of state. I just feel like I need a lot of people around me to support me. I've even contemplated telling my parents. I want to be on the road to recovery. I've played this game long enough. I'm going to be 25 years old. Enough of this shit.
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I'd do what NSA suggests n phone them and asks if they'll dose you on the appointment. It works differently here - we initially see a key worker they set up appointment with a doctor, we give a urine sample to prove that we're taking what we're say we're taking (n not pulling a fast one to get subs) and we get our dose the next day at the pharmacy.
But if the doctors actually does dose you there you have to be in moderate to severe WD (Google COWS scale) otherwise you'll get thrown into precipitated withdrawal, basically (please someone correct me if wrong) throwing Heroin off the MU receptor.

Google's explanation of precipitated withdrawal is as follows:
"Due to Buprenorphine's high affinity but low intrinsic activity at the mu receptor, the partial antagonist displaces agonist opioids from the mu receptors, without activating the receptor to an equivalent degree, resulting in a net decrease in agonist affect, thus precipitating a withdrawal syndrome."

If there anyone there who can distract you, give you support not to use? I know this part is hard but know it's temporary n you'll soon be on one pill a day (or have to take medication once daily) and are on the way to getting your life back. I've been on subs for three years so if you need someone to you're welcome to PM me anytime.

Evey
 
madagasqar said:
Does anything help with cravings? Ppl who claim that subutex/methadone/any-other-substitute minimize or eliminate their cravings probably have bigger power of autosuggestion than the rest of us. Nothing will make u crave less! It's a time binding process, an effort that requires psychobabble bs .
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High doses of methadone have really turned the volume down on my cravings but I think it varies from person to person and has more to do with mental health than many people think.
 
So the appointment went well!

The office hosts groups and has a day program, which I would love to get into. I have work though, so right now that time does not work. However the social worker found a place in the state near me that has NIGHT group programs, so I may look into that.

I didn't get to see the doc Wednesday because he was at the detox, so I made an appointment to come back Friday morning to see him. I got the med then, and was counseled on doing NA and seeing a therapist. They take a mental health approach to it which I really like. I see him again next Friday morning, and will continue to see him Friday mornings because of my work schedule.
 
aq. said:
So the appointment went well!

The office hosts groups and has a day program, which I would love to get into. I have work though, so right now that time does not work. However the social worker found a place in the state near me that has NIGHT group programs, so I may look into that.

I didn't get to see the doc Wednesday because he was at the detox, so I made an appointment to come back Friday morning to see him. I got the med then, and was counseled on doing NA and seeing a therapist. They take a mental health approach to it which I really like. I see him again next Friday morning, and will continue to see him Friday mornings because of my work schedule.
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I'm so proud of you sweetie <3
 
aq. said:
For the past year, I have been addicted to heroin. I want to get clean. I don't want to feel withdrawal. I don't know what to do. I have an appointment Wednesday with a suboxone doctor, but I just hope I don't go into withdrawal before then. Will I get suboxone at the first appointment? How can I make my detox as painless as possible? I have 0.5g with me right now. Should I taper with that? I'm so desperate :(
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Hey bud,

You've made the first step in taking your life back!! Don't worry everything is going to be alright! I just happened to quit smoking heroin earlier this month (black tar actually, much more dangerous, my heroin had been laced with fentanyl) Let me tell you, the anticipation is MUCH worse than the actual task itself.

After crashing my brothers car driving to get dope, loosing all my money buying tar for myself and another addict who had no job, no car, no license, no money. I decided it was time to quit. Time to take back my life no matter how long or how hard it is!

HERE IS HOW I DID IT (not a guide just a referrence)

I tapered down my tar over a month. I would take a few hits when I woke up (4 -5 hits) , take a little piece to work for a booster (2-3). Then wait as long as I could at night to take a few more hits and then go to bed without a hit... (sometimes I would wake up and take a hit if I couldn't sleep. and did this for about a week or two

Then I had to start pushing it: I took my hits in the morning went to work without any tar, then came home and took some hits and tried to hold off until I woke up the next day.

The week I quit... (March 8th, 2016) I was down to only 2-hits in the morning and 2-3 at night. (and I'm talking one hit, not a double, just one little toke) And then it hit me...

I took my hits in the morning, came one blue light later that afternoon and was inspired to quit that night. I didnt take a hit when I got home and just downed 3 PMs to try and pass out as long as I could before taking the Suboxone.

Well I went 14 hours (woke up at 10pm not feeling too hot) then tried taking a sub.. went into PW, should have waited longer... so I took a hit of my tar an hour after the suboxone.

I FELT LIKE A FAILURE... lowest point in my life hands down. I cried myself to sleep. I thought I was done... I thought of every scenario, I had to tell my parents and go to rehab because I couldn't do it myself.The combo of sub absorbing for an hour after 14 hours and then taking a hit or two actually did some GOOD it pushed my tolerance another few hours.

I woke up the next morning and didn't take a hit or a sub..

I just crashed on the couch and watched TV until 11am, thinking to myself " wow just went 12 hours, that was kind of easy" I went until about 3pm then my friend smoked in front of me and I couldn't resist. I took 2 hits...

That was the last time I touched dope.

I went to sleep that night (a miracle) with Zzz quil and PMs to knock me the fuck out. I woke up around 6am, 16 hours after my last hit... but I didn't want to chance PWD again.... So I pushed myself to resist taking the sub until the last moment... which was 2 hours later.

I split the sub in half.
Took 4mg. nothing was happening. Put the remaining 4mg under my tongue. and then jumped in the HOT shower. THIS REALLY turned my experience around. TAKE A HOT SHOWER, just sit down and let it rain, I started sobbing and I felt my emotions coming back into my brain... my head was experiencing emotion for the first time in over a year... I was so happy that I was sad.. hahah

From then on I just would deal with the pain, the aches, the chills that were substantially nullified due to the Suboxone strip. I quickly tapered down my dosage and visited a sub doctor 3 weeks later. DM me if you have questions! =D

The suboxone made my life manageable. It was hard but not impossible. I know it's cliche but you have to push yourself until you've reached a painful enough opiate withdrawal level. Since you're doing heroin (i'll assume smoking due to longevity of your habit) it dissipates quickly in the brain so depending on your tolerance and small dosage, you could be good anywhere from 9-14 hours to take a sub, but you have to be honest with yourself and ask yourself how much of a tollerence do you have.. If you want to do it right wait around 20-24 hours to be safe if you have no safety net with heroin near by.

I'll be praying for you as I go into my 3rd day without suboxone after a 25 day detox :) You're almost there!!! keep going!
 
aq. said:
So the appointment went well!

The office hosts groups and has a day program, which I would love to get into. I have work though, so right now that time does not work. However the social worker found a place in the state near me that has NIGHT group programs, so I may look into that.

I didn't get to see the doc Wednesday because he was at the detox, so I made an appointment to come back Friday morning to see him. I got the med then, and was counseled on doing NA and seeing a therapist. They take a mental health approach to it which I really like. I see him again next Friday morning, and will continue to see him Friday mornings because of my work schedule.
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I'm pleased that it went well. Did they tell you what dose you're going on?

Evey -
 
I agree, 8mg is what I took the first two days of quitting, I quickly tapered down to 4mgs on the third and fourth days and felt FINE! You'll be OK aq. The sun will rise again and you will be alive. Stay strong. I just did this myself IT IS POSSIBLE
 
Glad the appointment went well. It also sounds like you found a good doctor to get the sub from. Having a social worker on staff as well as group therapy to participate in is really rare in my experience down here in Alabama. All my interactions with sub docs lasted less than 5 minutes and involved them asking me if I was still using drugs before handing me my script.
 
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