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PTSD from MDMA

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An acquaintance has recently suggested a solution for some MDMA related trauma that feels like it could either be a really good idea or a very bad one.

For some background, the experience was about 3 months ago. I took 100mg of very high quality MDMA and waited an hour and a half with no effects. Then I made the mistake of re dosing with another 100mg. At this point the effects came on almost instantly and were far too intense. On top of this, my surrounding peers made the experience 10 times more horrific than it needed to be. As a result i have been experiencing extreme anxiety, depression, nightmares or insomnia, derealization/depersonalization, hallucinations, ect...

I have been seeing a therapist with little progress and has refrained from all substances stronger than a vitamin.

My very close and trusted friend is aware of the situation and has proposed that I take a small dose of MDMA in a controlled and safe environment with hopes of creating a positive experience. He plans to be present to help me work through some of the trauma. He believes that this will reduce a lot of the fears and anxieties produced as well as help the derealization by reinforcing the belief that I can be in control of my reality on the substance therefore when sober as well.

My first thought was that solving drug traumas with more drugs can never be a good idea, although my friend is very experienced and trustworthy. So I wondering about peoples opinion of this idea, and if anyone has ever tried it before, if so, was there any success?
 
It's really a coin-toss. It could go incredibly well, it could make things much worse. This is why it is not encouraged to use MDMA or psychedelics as a kind of self-medication; they may have proven therapeutic benefits but you need the presence of specially trained and qualified therapists to ensure that it goes in the right direction.
 
When you took the mdma and essentially double dropped, was that your first time even taking the substance?

That sounds terrible to have as a first experience, and I'm sorry to hear about it. You needed to have had that kind of experienced friend with you in the first place, so that he or she could've guided you through it and let you know that everything is okay (or know how to make everything okay). I had done this for a handful of people, and the one thing I always preach about beforehand is that if you have a bad time, then NEVER take it too seriously or outside of the context of "I was on something strong, shit happened, felt like forever but I should just move on." Even with optimal conditions, you'll never know exactly how the person will take it until they take it. But ultimately, it's just a six hour substance trip and you should view it as such. It doesn't define anything really and it most assuredly doesn't define you as a person either.

There's nothing to feel bad about though; I've talked about it before, but my first time was just one blue superman pill and I got rocked like hell. I can honestly say that my first experience was just as strong as my +4 trips in intensity, which is saying a lot from a dose like ~100mg. And I've also had super terrible lsd trips before, but I never put much stock into them after the effects wear off and I'm just the same as I was before I took the tab. Whatever happened to you or whatever you were experiencing during that bad trip, it'll never help for you to linger on it or make the experience worse than it was.

For example, were you breathing hard? Panicking? Feeling shitty, thinking, seeing, and feeling shitty things? That happened to me too, albeit with lsd but I would contend that substance is stronger and darker on the mind. It was even powerful enough to make me feel a weird kind of physical pain, but I knew intuitively it was just the lsd doing it because otherwise it made no sense any other way. However, I just shrugged it off as a bad trip and went about my life like it never happened. I was advised to do this by my friends and it worked like a charm. Sometimes bad trips just happen because you panic and become overwhelmed by its effects, which tend to exacerbate the condition and...you get the idea. My point is that it just happens so don't let that one negative, happenstance experience ruin things for you.

Imo, what your friend suggests may work, especially if you have a positive experience the next time because that will definitely affect your psyche in how you view the drug itself. If anything, your S & S, as well as taking too much for your first time presumably, is what caused such a reaction. Like with my lsd trips, just because you had a bad trip doesn't mean they will all be like that. In the sense that you may conquer your fears by trying it again, you absolutely may benefit from your friend's request. Make sure that, as a sitter, to have him not be like watching you intently or looking for signs for 24/7, but try normal things like listening to music, and the biggest thing is TALKING. The key is to relax, be comfortable, AND find humor or joy. I spent a good chunk of my mdma trips just talking about stuff (btw, you might end up opening up more than you intended to, so make sure your friend is a really good friend) listening to music with friends--basically just socializing and hanging out. For me, that was absolutely therapeutic and it can be for you too. The more you keep inside, the bigger the burden you will feel. I believe that is what makes mdma therapeutic in the first place.

Eat a light meal an hour before, since doing it on an empty stomach will make it stronger and it's harder on the body that way. Take ~100mg, and if you feel the need to re-dose, then split it in half and take them in halves. Keep bottles of water handy, and this isn't for everyone since some people can't sit still, but gather some movies too. (Shit, I remember watching 300 at the movie theater while rolling, and that wasn't a very good idea.) So nothing too violent or gory. And, remember to relax be comfortable, and think positively, ABOVE ALL. That is honestly all you need to have a good time off of mdma, and they should boost each other too. Once you start thinking positively, the mdma will push you down the path (quite hard) and the rest should take care of itself.

Have confidence in yourself. You're not some anomaly or something; you just underestimated the substance, and didn't have someone experienced around to explain that whatever you were going through can be easily navigated out of with the right words and actions.

Good luck, and have fun this time if you end up doing it. You are suppose to [have fun with it] anyway because that's how it's meant to be taken by the users. :)
 
If not another trip with MDMA I would consider psychedelic mushrooms, of course very low dose. They have been successful in treating certain mental illness and troubles similar to how MDMA has.

It's a good idea to have a benzodiazepine on hand for bad trips. Of course, take plenty of antioxidants like alpha lipoic acid with MDMA.
 
Kl519 said:
When you took the mdma and essentially double dropped, was that your first time even taking the substance?

That sounds terrible to have as a first experience, and I'm sorry to hear about it. You needed to have had that kind of experienced friend with you in the first place, so that he or she could've guided you through it and let you know that everything is okay (or know how to make everything okay). I had done this for a handful of people, and the one thing I always preach about beforehand is that if you have a bad time, then NEVER take it too seriously or outside of the context of "I was on something strong, shit happened, felt like forever but I should just move on." Even with optimal conditions, you'll never know exactly how the person will take it until they take it. But ultimately, it's just a six hour substance trip and you should view it as such. It doesn't define anything really and it most assuredly doesn't define you as a person either.

There's nothing to feel bad about though; I've talked about it before, but my first time was just one blue superman pill and I got rocked like hell. I can honestly say that my first experience was just as strong as my +4 trips in intensity, which is saying a lot from a dose like ~100mg. And I've also had super terrible lsd trips before, but I never put much stock into them after the effects wear off and I'm just the same as I was before I took the tab. Whatever happened to you or whatever you were experiencing during that bad trip, it'll never help for you to linger on it or make the experience worse than it was.

For example, were you breathing hard? Panicking? Feeling shitty, thinking, seeing, and feeling shitty things? That happened to me too, albeit with lsd but I would contend that substance is stronger and darker on the mind. It was even powerful enough to make me feel a weird kind of physical pain, but I knew intuitively it was just the lsd doing it because otherwise it made no sense any other way. However, I just shrugged it off as a bad trip and went about my life like it never happened. I was advised to do this by my friends and it worked like a charm. Sometimes bad trips just happen because you panic and become overwhelmed by its effects, which tend to exacerbate the condition and...you get the idea. My point is that it just happens so don't let that one negative, happenstance experience ruin things for you.

Imo, what your friend suggests may work, especially if you have a positive experience the next time because that will definitely affect your psyche in how you view the drug itself. If anything, your S & S, as well as taking too much for your first time presumably, is what caused such a reaction. Like with my lsd trips, just because you had a bad trip doesn't mean they will all be like that. In the sense that you may conquer your fears by trying it again, you absolutely may benefit from your friend's request. Make sure that, as a sitter, to have him not be like watching you intently or looking for signs for 24/7, but try normal things like listening to music, and the biggest thing is TALKING. The key is to relax, be comfortable, AND find humor or joy. I spent a good chunk of my mdma trips just talking about stuff (btw, you might end up opening up more than you intended to, so make sure your friend is a really good friend) listening to music with friends--basically just socializing and hanging out. For me, that was absolutely therapeutic and it can be for you too. The more you keep inside, the bigger the burden you will feel. I believe that is what makes mdma therapeutic in the first place.

Eat a light meal an hour before, since doing it on an empty stomach will make it stronger and it's harder on the body that way. Take ~100mg, and if you feel the need to re-dose, then split it in half and take them in halves. Keep bottles of water handy, and this isn't for everyone since some people can't sit still, but gather some movies too. (Shit, I remember watching 300 at the movie theater while rolling, and that wasn't a very good idea.) So nothing too violent or gory. And, remember to relax be comfortable, and think positively, ABOVE ALL. That is honestly all you need to have a good time off of mdma, and they should boost each other too. Once you start thinking positively, the mdma will push you down the path (quite hard) and the rest should take care of itself.

Have confidence in yourself. You're not some anomaly or something; you just underestimated the substance, and didn't have someone experienced around to explain that whatever you were going through can be easily navigated out of with the right words and actions.

Good luck, and have fun this time if you end up doing it. You are suppose to [have fun with it] anyway because that's how it's meant to be taken by the users. :)
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It was my second experience. And your totally right, the setting especially had a lot to do with it. One person was a friend and the other two I had met for the first time. Almost immediately after the second dose I felt it all come on at once so I was a little panicky. It felt like it was hard to catch up to my breath. I became quiet because I was having a difficult time following their conversation. At one point they all got up and went to a different room and I didn't know why. It was a dorm room with very little soundproofing and I could hear them talk about how weird I was acting and how I was so quiet. Then my friend began telling them personal things about me in high school and saying I was a slut and things like that (I graduated last year so these things still feel relevant even though they aren't). Then I became incredibly self conscious and was thinking and feeling depressed.

I appreciate the insight to move on as well, it was such a deep, negative self reflecting experience that after it happened I feel like it has defined my life. For example, I love music and I played some music for them and they mocked it. As a result I haven't been able to listen to any kind of music with out feeling self conscious or like I was weird for liking it. So that actually gives me a lot of perspective and relief just realizing that it is ridiculous to let those 10 hours on an intense dose define me.

This friend is like an older brother, we have tripped before on acid and shrooms before and we are able to talk about everything so I am confident he is the right person (he also has an incredible amount of experience). Thank you so much for your input! I feel a lot more confident about this decision.

I feel that substances like these are so important to the human condition (when used responsibly) so I am glad to hear that I can gain that confidence back and be able to have more life changing experiences.
 
Cotcha Yankinov said:
If not another trip with MDMA I would consider psychedelic mushrooms, of course very low dose. They have been successful in treating certain mental illness and troubles similar to how MDMA has.

It's a good idea to have a benzodiazepine on hand for bad trips. Of course, take plenty of antioxidants like alpha lipoic acid with MDMA.
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That's interesting , I like mushrooms, but I notice I don't do well with P. cubensis, which is what is generally popular around my area but I am fortunate to have access to a pretty wide variety, so are there any strains that you suggest for my purposes. I'm not very experienced with mushies so I am not sure if different strains can be used for different effects/experiences.
 
Posting from my mobile so off the top of my head but I believe cubensis are one of the species that have a lot of (spelling?) baeocystin, so the different strains are supposed to be a little different but anyways, you don't fair well with cubensis? That's all I've ever managed to find personally lol. The reason why I suggest mushrooms before trying MDMA is because MDMA can be a little hard on the brain, it can cause a lot of people anxiety in the months after a roll.
 
I've tried cubensis at least 3 times all in different settings and never have had a necessarily an enjoyable experience. Nothing terrible or damaging, I just feel this uncomfortable body sensation that I can't seem to shake. It's hard to explain but It's like an extreme boredom. Nothing is amusing and I get no enjoyment out of the visuals. It's the weirdest experience but it happens every time. It also feels like I can't think very deeply because nothing keeps my interest. I guess the best way to describe it is a numbness to emotion. Nothing is stimulating to me or interesting. Which is very weird because I believe they are supposed to achieve the opposite. Anyway, I'm sure this is not the typical experience people have.

My only concern is that if a normal experience with shrooms is similar to an acid experience I am worried about going into a trip with my current mindset. I have developed quite negative thought patterns and I would think that they would be further distorted with a psych. Where as molly is going to produce that happy euphoria regardless. But then again, I know a lot of people are capable of controlling the direction of their trip. And I agree, a low dose of shrooms would be a lot easier on my brain and I have heard they are even effective in treating depression which I always experience after MDMA.

So I guess my question is, in the case that I try a different strain of shrooms do you think I will be able to control the negative thoughts and attitudes that already exist in my reality or do think they could potentially further exploit them. Also, I am interested in hearing what an experience is like with cubensis for you if you don't mind sharing. Maybe I can find what causes this uncomfortable boredom.
 
I would try a pretty low dose and see how you do, typically my experience with cubensis is an uncomfortable "body load", and almost fatigue in a head cold sort of way, personally I don't get this with low doses however. But honestly MDMA is an amphetamine in the sense that it will just give you a euphoria, but the euphoria comes at a cost. So shrooms might not have all the same benefits but that is definitely reflected in the risks. I think a low dose would be really good to try.

Alternatively there is DXM. Another drug that does not have the adverse reaction potential of MDMA but still one that might help you get over your bad experience.

Bu what I honestly think will really help you is mindfulness meditation, and preferably you would practice lots before your trip. The goal is to become thoughtless, quite the challenge. Every time your mind wanders and fills with thoughts, return your attention to the way your breathing feels.
 
i would personally recommend snorting the next lot of MDMA you do as long as the purity is decent and do it with a bunch of mates for great vibes
 
I'm curious, but, why would snorting mdma be recommended in this particular situation?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea per se, but yeah.
 
I don't snort so can't say from personal experience but from what I've heard yeah the experience is supposed to be much more magical when MDMA is swallowed. Snorted it appears to be much stimmier, less loved up
 
BlueBull said:
I don't snort so can't say from personal experience but from what I've heard yeah the experience is supposed to be much more magical when MDMA is swallowed. Snorted it appears to be much stimmier, less loved up
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yeah man F that. snorting mdma burns and tastes like ass.

i prefer putting the capsule into a small amount of water and drinking it quickly. tastes gross but comes on mad strong. i also never comedown really. the magic goes away and i feel tweaked but there's no mood drop at all ime.

very ironic getting ptsd from mdma tho OP.
 
Quit being retarded man. You do NOT have PTSD from MDMA. That term PTSD is thrown around waaayyyy too much these days on social media, with SJW types, etc. 200 MG of MDMA is a high dose but you shouldn't be experiencing long term effects from it.

You basically have some underlying mental problems that coincidentally got worse after your intense drug experience. If it wasn't this MDMA experience, it would have been something else that triggered it... maybe getting fired from a job or something.

What you need to do is just work through your emotions, talk to the therapist, whatever. Maybe you need to be on anti-depressants but that shit will turn you into a zombie so I don't recommend it. If your mind is a little unstable then doing more drugs is not going to help that much. But, I don't think it will hurt that much either unless you don't have your shit together in RL and are using drugs to 'get away' which will exacerbate the situation.

But PTSD from MDMA??? Give me a fucking break with that shit. PTSD is for people who experience extreme violence. Not for some kid that took 200 MG of MDMA. Just get that thought out of your head. It's an excuse for your weak mind and it's doing you no good.
 
Well, I agree that PTSD is at a point of over-diagnosis along with many other psychological conditions. This is most likely a mix of social media and a rather loose diagnostic criteria (because we don't yet have the knowledge to make a more refined criteria). In my particular circumstance, I do indeed have PTSD.

From a technical stand point, to gain a DSM-IV diagnoses of PTSD, I would need direct exposure, witnessed exposure, repetitive direct exposure, or repetitive witnessed exposure to an extreme trauma. In order to more clearly refine the ambiguity of what constitutes an "extreme" trauma, the DSM-5 (most current criteria) proposes four distinct diagnostic "clusters" you could call them. In order to qualify for clinical diagnosis of PTSD as a DSM-5 you must have at at least three of the 4 following symptoms.

They are:
1. re-experiencing- Flashbacks, nightmares, spontaneous memories, and other symptoms that demonstrate prolonged distress.
2. avoidance- of memories, thoughts, or any external reminders of the event.
3. consistent negative cognition- these are distorted thought patterns of self blame, extreme negativity, ect.. this is also a symptom of psychedelic psychosis.
4. arousal- this is more evidence of fight or flight system damages. symptoms would include aggressiveness, reckless behavior, hyper-vigilance, and sleep disturbances.

I certainly don't owe you an explanation of which I am experiencing but I can tell you that I pass the clinical diagnosis with flying colors. We also know that genetic predisposition is a large factor in determining if an individual will develop PTSD or not. Youth, gender, and geno type play a role in this process. Unfortunately being a 17 year old female with a family history of anxiety does indeed make me a higher risk candidate.

So you are correct, there were underlying problems, though they contributed to the development of PTSD, I didn't have major mental illnesses waiting to pounce at me when I go through something traumatic. When people have illnesses that are triggered by drugs or circumstances like being fired, the current theory is that onset of mental illness is a result of learned behaviors consistent with abusive and or dysfunctional childhoods. In this case an event like being fired could appropriately trigger a mental illness. Onset of mental illness is complex and still poorly understood so it is important to note that this is just a theory. This being said, I thankfully cannot personally attest to experiencing these conditions during my early childhood making it highly unlikely I had sever depression, anxiety, and de-personalization/de-realization, waiting for me as a result of a "coincidental" experience.

Going further than a clinical diagnosis, the understood biological explanation of PTSD is such. A traumatic event is experienced and the brains ability to process the stimuli is supersaturated. In this case, the parts of the brain that are responsible for processing and encoding memories, fail to do so. The unresolved traumatic stimulus is the reason for the Post Traumatic part of PTSD. The psychological shock further results in a dysregulation of your bodies stress regulating systems. In particular the CRH-NE cascade. Cortisal is the hormone responsible for initiating this system. Not to mention, the rest of the CRH-NE cascade has to do with the levels of the catecholamines (the neurotransmitter family containing Norepinephrine, Dopamine, and Serotonin). MDMA is known to distorts all of these levels in aggressive ways. Long story short, an extreme distortion of Cortisol and the neurotransmitters of the CHR-NE cascade can affect the bodies ability to cope and process extreme amounts of stress.

Being a 120lb female on a 200mg dose of 70% pure MDMA (tested) was responsible for the overwhelming stress such as thoughts that my heart is going to explode, that I was going to die, thoughts that it would never end. On top of that, the unfamiliar people in my environment were yelling at me and harassing/mocking me because they didn't know how to appropriately respond to me feeling out of control on such a high dose. With this I feel that it was a traumatic enough event to cause the PTSD that I AM experiencing. PTSD is not just for people that are exposed to extreme violence, it is a result of an exposure of ANY trauma capable of supersaturating the amygdala,hippocampus, hypothalamus, periaqueductalgrey, and thalamus. If you have evidence to refute this claim by all means inform me.

The next time you feel obligated to call someone retarded, or tell them that they have a weak mind make sure you actually know what your talking about. I asked this question because there are a lot of people out there with respectable experience and knowledge in a position to help me. If I was looking to be called a retard I would have asked elsewhere.
 
OP, do not worry, your questions and concerns are welcome here. Do not feel like you are doing anything wrong. :)

I do support the idea that people should be stronger mentally and believe in themselves more, but that isn't always the answer and/or very easy to do. For something like ptsd, I'm no doctor but I don't think it works that way. If it were like very minor depression, then there's a case to be made there.

But I remember this thread. Did you ever go about trying out your plan? Or did you decide it wasn't for you? You may want to look into real therapy sessions. I don't know if you're doing this, but it's never good to put the burden on your shoulders alone. Everyone needs help sometimes. I get the feeling that you went into the mdma trip and being overwhelmed by the experience, which can obviously lead to ptsd. Or in other words, perhaps it wasn't what you thought it would be? This substance isn't for everyone; there's a reason why millions of people do it (besides it being illegal atm), but not 250 million (talking about the US). If your mindset isn't in the right place, and if you truly don't feel the excitement of taking it, then it's probably going to lead to a bad experience. Bad trips are possible on this one, and I'm sorry to hear that it seems like it happened to you.

I do think you would benefit from marginalizing your bad experience, and not trying to take too much out of it. The substance is not inherently evil; it's just a chemical with obviously no intents or emotions. It sucks that your setting was that bad, and for that I really sympathize with you. Dropping mdma with people who don't really care enough to support you and be there for you during the trip is probably the worst kind of setting I can think of, especially your first or second time doing it. It is extremely difficult to be your usual self, or to not be influenced behaviorally while on mdma, unless you get used to its effects. You should've dropped with people that understood that. =/

Anyway, let us know how you fare with your situation, and since you seem very knowledgeable on the subject yourself, most of us would only be able to support your road to healing. So, on that note, I hope that you have a speedy recovery and that you are able to get over this positively. You can do it. :)
 
One important thing to remember is that drug experiences are very strong experiences themselves, use of MDMA in a rave setting boasts an 800% increase in cortisol and probably a just as profound increase in norepinephrine - a neurotransmitter that helps strengthen memory of traumatic events. I think it's actually relatively common that people get a spectrum of mental issues that meet DSM criteria from a range of different drugs, even cannabis (I once knew a girl who had a similar experience but not quite as severe as you but with cannabis, her first time smoking she got too high and people were mean to her and messing with her, she later developed derealization and such for a good couple months).

I wish I knew what to do for sure but what's been proven to work for chronic PTSD is exposure therapy. Best of luck, stay strong :)
 
I have decided I am going to go through with it but once it came time I realized I wasn't quite ready so I decided to delay it for a couple weeks and try again. I am currently seeing a therapist, CBT has been helpful. The first time I did MDMA was the most incredible experience I have ever had and I would hate to give up future ones like that because of this one mistake.

And thank you, I think it has been hard to marginalize it because I felt like it effected my entire life and its easy to put so much emphasis on it. But at this point its very helpful to realize that it was only 10 hours or so of my life and the effects were only temporary. I definitely don't think it's evil:) I just did't have enough respect for it at the time. It also helps knowing that my experience is normal. Mentally I feel ready to try again in the right setting, though my body is still working out some of the physical fears of the substance. But I've noticed the more I am around it and see people on it, the less fear I feel. In three weeks I will try again, that will be the best timing, finals will be over and I will get to visit my closest friends back home.

Thank You Cotcha Yankinov, I think your right, a high on most substances with that kind of setting is capable of creating residual effects. And exposure therapy seems like the best and most enjoyable route so far:). I will make sure to comment about the experience soon after.

As a second question, is cannabis known intensify a MDMA? I smoked a couple bowls trying to settle my feelings of anxiety during the roll but I could't tell how it effected me because the only feeling I felt was extreme anxiety no matter what I consumed. I ask because now if I smoke it takes me right back to that night and even in the tiniest amounts exposure therapy hasn't been effective with tree. But if it wouldn't risk the state of my trip have the intensifying effect than I would consider smoking with my upcoming roll (assuming it is going well) in order to reinforce the positive upon exposure.
 
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