I've personally hallucinated off of it with a very large dose. But now in small amounts it really helps initiate sleep and like posted above that's the problem with most addicts coming down. Not saying it's the best but it's not an opioid or a benzo and the Tizanidine really worked for me.
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H&R Moderators: streaM Freak
one week sober... need help with insomnia :(
- Thread starter custard
- Start date
custard
Bluelighter
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- Apr 20, 2010
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- 151
crimsonjunk: Thanks for your support. I wasn't planning on giving up coffee.. It was certainly a necessity when I was smoking pot every night. I miss it, in the sense that I'm so bloody sleep deprived it's hard to function.. but now that I've quit smoking I'm more sensitive than I was before, and I don't like the jittery anxiety feeling coffee gives. Life's hard right now but I think I'm better off without it. Might try switching to tea.
manboychef: Thanks, I will check it out. I am feeling a bit better today than when I posted, (mentally, not physically)... But it's hard to recover and calm down mentally when my body is such a mess. Stuck in a bit of a vicious circle here. Gonna try and go for a long bike ride tomorrow and see if that helps with sleep.
closeau: Thanks for your support. Hypnotism.. hmm. I'm very open minded so I don't knock anything till I've tried it. The roommate noise honestly isn't even that bad. The fan works well to block it out. It's the noise in my own head that's the most insidious. So I think certain mantras and calming words in the form of 'self talk' could be really helpful. Sometimes I try simply to focus on my breathing but that's not always effective. Do you remember any of the phrases or mantras?
Stargazer: I agree that being highly sensitive is a good thing.. Having the ability to heal others through listening or making music or however is pretty important. But yeah, we are also very hard on ourselves and take things personally. I feel like one of the hard parts right now is all the excess stimulation in the world.. living in downtown Toronto.. Regarding sleep though: I did try the ASMR video with a cut purring which was quite nice, thanks for the reminder.. I will keep working on it. I think the worst part is not that I can't fall asleep, but that my quality of sleep is so poor and fitful I wake up exhausted every morning.
PS. In regards to insomnia, what kind of exercise do you guys do? For a while I was telling myself that my cleaning job counted as exercise, but I don't know if I should be counting it.. It is hard work but I don't get a very fast heart rate or break out in a full sweat, and since it's work it's probably not as stress-relieving as a long bike ride or something.
manboychef: Thanks, I will check it out. I am feeling a bit better today than when I posted, (mentally, not physically)... But it's hard to recover and calm down mentally when my body is such a mess. Stuck in a bit of a vicious circle here. Gonna try and go for a long bike ride tomorrow and see if that helps with sleep.
closeau: Thanks for your support. Hypnotism.. hmm. I'm very open minded so I don't knock anything till I've tried it. The roommate noise honestly isn't even that bad. The fan works well to block it out. It's the noise in my own head that's the most insidious. So I think certain mantras and calming words in the form of 'self talk' could be really helpful. Sometimes I try simply to focus on my breathing but that's not always effective. Do you remember any of the phrases or mantras?
Stargazer: I agree that being highly sensitive is a good thing.. Having the ability to heal others through listening or making music or however is pretty important. But yeah, we are also very hard on ourselves and take things personally. I feel like one of the hard parts right now is all the excess stimulation in the world.. living in downtown Toronto.. Regarding sleep though: I did try the ASMR video with a cut purring which was quite nice, thanks for the reminder.. I will keep working on it. I think the worst part is not that I can't fall asleep, but that my quality of sleep is so poor and fitful I wake up exhausted every morning.
PS. In regards to insomnia, what kind of exercise do you guys do? For a while I was telling myself that my cleaning job counted as exercise, but I don't know if I should be counting it.. It is hard work but I don't get a very fast heart rate or break out in a full sweat, and since it's work it's probably not as stress-relieving as a long bike ride or something.
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custard
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2010
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PPS. Something I forgot to mention:
Due to this terrible insomnia mess of 3 weeks now.. i feel like my blood sugar is screwed up and i'm hungry all the time. which in turn results in me worrying too much about how much to eat and when to eat and makes it worse... I feel like I eat some food and feel completely full but then just 3 hours later I'm famished again.. This only started happening after i quit and feels like it's getting progressively worse..
Has anyone else experienced this sort of constant hunger or increased appetite as a result of stress/insomnia ? It would be a relief if I knew this was temporary as I am simultaneously trying to budget how much I spend on food and my system is all out of whack..
I once heard someone say 'your body doesn't know the difference between being tired and being hungry' (in extremes i suppose)?
I have also heard that mental energy is a lot more draining than physical so maybe this constant stress/exhaustion my mind and body is under is also causing this?
Due to this terrible insomnia mess of 3 weeks now.. i feel like my blood sugar is screwed up and i'm hungry all the time. which in turn results in me worrying too much about how much to eat and when to eat and makes it worse... I feel like I eat some food and feel completely full but then just 3 hours later I'm famished again.. This only started happening after i quit and feels like it's getting progressively worse..
Has anyone else experienced this sort of constant hunger or increased appetite as a result of stress/insomnia ? It would be a relief if I knew this was temporary as I am simultaneously trying to budget how much I spend on food and my system is all out of whack..
I once heard someone say 'your body doesn't know the difference between being tired and being hungry' (in extremes i suppose)?
I have also heard that mental energy is a lot more draining than physical so maybe this constant stress/exhaustion my mind and body is under is also causing this?
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vegaskukichyo
Greenlighter
Hi custard, sorry about your problem. I have struggled with difficulty falling asleep for a very long time, and always more so when I am getting clean. I have 5 days right now and I have been meditating while trying to fall asleep. As someone who has sensitive blood chemistry, is a hard sleeper, requires restful sleep to function, and avidly avoids any medication when possible (I have to be convinced by serious pain like my migraines or hernia to even take ibuprofen), I recommend you try just casual meditation during the day, and before bed, focusing on the breath, gently guiding it, accepting the wandering path of mind and senses. This will acclimate you to the point where you will be able to close your eyes and use meditation to center yourself to sleep. I know it sounds strange but I have had good success. I have also been successful with very light soft music that helps alleviate my ADHD natural tendency to hyperanalyze my environment and state of mind. It seems like you might also be similarly sensitive to your neural and physical environment and these are all safe, free, and effortless ways to diminish/redirect that sensitivity.
Best of luck! And Blesséd Be,
vk
Best of luck! And Blesséd Be,
vk
custard
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2010
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hi vegaskukichyo. these are good suggestions. i have been meditating daily for about a week now, but i have slacked off the past couple days. i usually read before bed but yeah a quick meditation is a good idea too. yes i am certainly overly sensitive and overly analytical. soft music is another good reminder. one thing i must remember is to separate myself from my thoughts and not let them consume me..
any tips for any guided meditations? it's hard to find the 'right one' for right now. i feel that i need meditation with nearly constant talking and not prolonged silence, because i am in such an agitated state. and not ones that tell you to focus inward on your negative feelings. meditations that are i guess more comforting and grounding in nature. i found one by jon kabat zinn i liked but it's quite hard to find the right one.
anyway thanks for your kind words
any tips for any guided meditations? it's hard to find the 'right one' for right now. i feel that i need meditation with nearly constant talking and not prolonged silence, because i am in such an agitated state. and not ones that tell you to focus inward on your negative feelings. meditations that are i guess more comforting and grounding in nature. i found one by jon kabat zinn i liked but it's quite hard to find the right one.
anyway thanks for your kind words
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
This is a site of one of my favorite mindfulness meditation (vipassana) teacher, Mitra. This is the simplest of all the ones I'm linking you too, and I'd start here. She said she'll be putting more up on her site, it's pretty new for her and a work in progress. Amazing teacher! www.aram3.com
Here are some really good introductory guided meditations from the Mindful Awareness Research Center I'm a part of at UCLA. I suggest using these to get a really good introductory overview of what guided meditations of quality are like and what they can offer. Diana Winston is a world renowned, fantastic mindful meditation teacher and really a pioneer in the emerging mindfulness meditation professional movement: http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22
Here are some good guided meditations from InsightLA. These aren't my favorite - actually I'm not a big fan of InsightLA. But they're a fantastic resource and very accessible to. Not quite as good IMHO as MARC's resources, but top notch nonetheless. Great introductory material covering a wide range of subjects: http://inside.insightla.org/christianewolf/audio-guided-meditations/
There are a lot of other great free guided meditations out there, although keep in mind the actual type of meditation we're talking about here is vipassana, or insight meditation in english. There are many different types of meditation from many different cultures, philosophies and religions. When most people hear the word meditation these days they think of it in a Buddhist context, and in particular they think of transcendental meditation/TM which got really popular in the 60-80's in the West, and is still probably the most popular and the best known (at least on a very superficial level). TM is a very different, particular type of meditation. While very useful, TM is much more narrowly focused and more limited than vipassana, especially when it comes to the kind of work we need to do in our recovery. When I speak of meditation I'm referring to insight meditation or vipassana.
If you have any questions on meditations or mindfulness feel free to PM me. I'm working on a Mindfulness and Meditation sticky type thread for SL, but I probably won't be able to finish putting it together until next week. It will have a lot of free, quality guided meditations as well as a lot of instruction, theory and practical advice on meditation (particularly insight meditation, or vipassana, and lovingkindness meditation, or metta (vipassana and metta are Pali words) - these two types of meditation are really the heart of effective mindfulness/meditation practice, especially when applied and as useful for recovery related subjects and material). Really looking forward to the completed project. Gonna be a great addiction to SL, and I'm really looking forward to sharing what I have with people I love here.
Here are some really good introductory guided meditations from the Mindful Awareness Research Center I'm a part of at UCLA. I suggest using these to get a really good introductory overview of what guided meditations of quality are like and what they can offer. Diana Winston is a world renowned, fantastic mindful meditation teacher and really a pioneer in the emerging mindfulness meditation professional movement: http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22
Here are some good guided meditations from InsightLA. These aren't my favorite - actually I'm not a big fan of InsightLA. But they're a fantastic resource and very accessible to. Not quite as good IMHO as MARC's resources, but top notch nonetheless. Great introductory material covering a wide range of subjects: http://inside.insightla.org/christianewolf/audio-guided-meditations/
There are a lot of other great free guided meditations out there, although keep in mind the actual type of meditation we're talking about here is vipassana, or insight meditation in english. There are many different types of meditation from many different cultures, philosophies and religions. When most people hear the word meditation these days they think of it in a Buddhist context, and in particular they think of transcendental meditation/TM which got really popular in the 60-80's in the West, and is still probably the most popular and the best known (at least on a very superficial level). TM is a very different, particular type of meditation. While very useful, TM is much more narrowly focused and more limited than vipassana, especially when it comes to the kind of work we need to do in our recovery. When I speak of meditation I'm referring to insight meditation or vipassana.
If you have any questions on meditations or mindfulness feel free to PM me. I'm working on a Mindfulness and Meditation sticky type thread for SL, but I probably won't be able to finish putting it together until next week. It will have a lot of free, quality guided meditations as well as a lot of instruction, theory and practical advice on meditation (particularly insight meditation, or vipassana, and lovingkindness meditation, or metta (vipassana and metta are Pali words) - these two types of meditation are really the heart of effective mindfulness/meditation practice, especially when applied and as useful for recovery related subjects and material). Really looking forward to the completed project. Gonna be a great addiction to SL, and I'm really looking forward to sharing what I have with people I love here.
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What was it?
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2010
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- 581
For me insomnia was usually not a big big issue but I do get it from time to time. I usually try small amounts of benzos. I have flunitrazepam 2mgs, nimetazepam 5mg, clonazepam 2mg and .....unbelievably 5 tabs of 50mg pentobarbital. The benzos give more of a next day dopeyness, especially the flunitrazepam. I only take 0.5mg to 1mg of that. With the Erimin/Nimetazepam I only need 1 or 2 tabs. It's also great for panic/anxiety attacks for people who get manic on Xanax (like me).
For me it is clonazepam for anxiety, nimetazepam for panic attacks (quite recreational stuff), flunitrazepam for insomnia which I rarely get and pentobarbital when I just want to anaethezise myself....i.e. knock my self out fast. 100-150mg knocks me out within an hour....absolutely no choice-just gone/asleep. With benzos sometimes it takes me a while to fall asleep. Even with a full 2mg flunitrazepam.
If benzos are something people want to avoid/reduce/stay away from like me now, then then alternatives are small for me. The Z-drugs spring to mind. All the herbal stuff doesn't seem to work for me, as also for 5HTP or Tryptophan. I am staying away from alcohol as it gives terrible sleep.
Meditiation and reading before sleep helps me most as do hot baths. Magnesium is something I take daily anyway to relax my muscles so is part of my regimen.
I am all ears for other suggestions.
For me it is clonazepam for anxiety, nimetazepam for panic attacks (quite recreational stuff), flunitrazepam for insomnia which I rarely get and pentobarbital when I just want to anaethezise myself....i.e. knock my self out fast. 100-150mg knocks me out within an hour....absolutely no choice-just gone/asleep. With benzos sometimes it takes me a while to fall asleep. Even with a full 2mg flunitrazepam.
If benzos are something people want to avoid/reduce/stay away from like me now, then then alternatives are small for me. The Z-drugs spring to mind. All the herbal stuff doesn't seem to work for me, as also for 5HTP or Tryptophan. I am staying away from alcohol as it gives terrible sleep.
Meditiation and reading before sleep helps me most as do hot baths. Magnesium is something I take daily anyway to relax my muscles so is part of my regimen.
I am all ears for other suggestions.
aihfl
Bluelight Crew
Have you tried sedating antidepressants? My pdoc didn't like the fact that I was using the Ativan prescribed for panic attacks for sleep so he put me on Remeron (mirtazapine) 15mg and doxepin 75mg. It's difficult getting out of bed but once I'm up I'm ok. With trazodone I would have to get up a full hour earlier just to shake off the drowsiness and "fog."
I tried Ambien which helped me fall asleep but didn't help me stay asleep. There is a controlled release version which is supposed to remedy that but I haven't tried it,
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
hi vegaskukichyo. these are good suggestions. i have been meditating daily for about a week now, but i have slacked off the past couple days. i usually read before bed but yeah a quick meditation is a good idea too. yes i am certainly overly sensitive and overly analytical. soft music is another good reminder. one thing i must remember is to separate myself from my thoughts and not let them consume me..
any tips for any guided meditations? it's hard to find the 'right one' for right now. i feel that i need meditation with nearly constant talking and not prolonged silence, because i am in such an agitated state. and not ones that tell you to focus inward on your negative feelings. meditations that are i guess more comforting and grounding in nature. i found one by jon kabat zinn i liked but it's quite hard to find the right one.
anyway thanks for your kind words
I also forgot to mention that when we're feeling really agitated, generally a body scan type meditation is ideal. Having your feet flat on the floor, taking your shoes off and feeling the soles of your feet rub against the carpet or something soft is extremely grounding.
Also, when agitated, don't feel like you need to meditate for 30-60 minutes to get something out of it. In this case, a 3-5 minute meditation may actually be much more beneficial. Stick to a short body scan type guided meditation.
What was it?
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2010
- Messages
- 581
Yep, I am already also on Remeron 75mg at night for depression and anxiety.
closeau
Bluelighter
Yes, vipassana meditation. Good one. I actually just my cushion out the other day and not only am I more mindful of things but have been sleeping great!!! Great for blood pressure and anxiety. I personally feel it's more helpful if you pearn from a teacher like I did. It's not just sitting there bored. Posture and breathing are essential and if you get a cramp, don't move or your concentration will be lost. Just sit thru the pain and it will go away. It's amazing. Back in 2002 I got immersed in Buddhisim and tried to meditate and just couldn't do it. Also, the Buddha taught nothing but meditation so if you think you have to do ritual stuff or become a Buddhist, you don't. Anyway I started going to a meditation group and teacher used to be a monk in Thailand. That really helped tons especially breathing which is key. I then, when he felt I was ready, went to a monastery in the forest of WV and did my first retreat. It was an amazing experience to have sessions led by real monks. At that point I enquirer into becoming a monk cause I didn't have shit in my life and I met the head monk which was awesome cause I had read 3 books by him and he's pretty famous in Buddhist world. He interviewed me and gave me layout of process and there it was a 3 year process to become a monk. I never went back and eventually stopped my meditation routine and started back to old habits and had a kid but I never let go of vipassana meditation. Religion isn't involved like I said and like toothepastedog said there are many forms of meditation but vipassana is the best to me. It's supposed to teach impermanace and once you get to a certain concentration level you can feel all the little things in your body changing sec to sec. Just sit cross legged and sit up straight but not ridged. My teacher used to say backbone should be like a stack of coins, take some deep breaths and then just breathe normally and concentrate on the feeling of the air coming in and out of your nostrils and when your mind wanders (it will) bring your concentration back to breath. That's it and you'll get better at it and eventually fall into different levels of concentration and it's actually pretty trippy. I remember they would have open meditation group Sunday's here and sitting time was rigorous. Hr and half. I cramped up right away and sat thru it and it hurt like crazy and just when I was about to stop and move I dropped into deep concentration and it was really cool and trippy but Buddha taught to go beyond the pleasure and keep sitting till enlighten the comes. But for sleep it's great. Just still calmly for 20 min and follow your breath and you'll fall asleep for sure. Sorry I rambled on but when I saw vipassana in post I got excited. Last 3-4 days I've been doing it it has helped me find peace with my moms death. I'm still fucked up about it but impermance is in all things, including my mom and it's how we deal with the impermance is key. Please feel free to PM me if all this writing isn't enough and you have questions. Good luck
custard
Bluelighter
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- Apr 20, 2010
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- 151
wow a lot of words to read here.
thanks toothpastedog, for all your support and advice. that does sound like exactly what i'm looking for. my dad actually already linked me to the UCLA meditations and i have been listening to a few of them lately. i really like them. i didn't know you were a part of that group, that is very cool. yes.. i am starting slowly with about 5-10 minute meditations. i'll check out the links you sent me over the next couple of weeks. i also found this one by jon kabat zinn which i really like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Fa50oj45s , i tried to find more by him but they are quite different with longer silences and don't resonate as much. let me know if you know any good ones by him.
thanks closeau also for sharing. yeah, i have meditated on and off for years so it's not brand new to me, but it's probably been about a year since i've taken it seriously and realized that i really need to do this every day to cope with life. i am very sorry to hear about your mom's death.. but i am glad meditation is helping you. one of the hardest things now is how relentless my paranoia has gotten. i think things are starting to go better for me (even still afraid to say it) but after a year of so much instability and hits and misses it's like i won't let myself believe it and it's very hard not to expect the worst. going to keep practicing..
forgive me for not replying in depth to your longer posts, and doing more venting than responding. i'm still in a fairly constant stated of overwhelmed, so it's hard for me to read so many words and respond to everything that has been said. but it does not mean i don't appreciate it.
sleep is still pretty bad. some nights are better than others. again also curious if anyone has experienced hunger issues in relation to insomnia/stress or knows anything about it - it's confusing and difficult to be hungry this much and not know if it's my regular body or if it's elevated from exhaustion and stress. i don't think i was this hungry when i was smoking pot and sleeping like a rock. it seems like no matter what i eat, whether it's a very filling breakfast (eggs, toast, avocado) or less filling meal (potato and chickpea soup) i am hungry again around 3 hours later..
thanks toothpastedog, for all your support and advice. that does sound like exactly what i'm looking for. my dad actually already linked me to the UCLA meditations and i have been listening to a few of them lately. i really like them. i didn't know you were a part of that group, that is very cool. yes.. i am starting slowly with about 5-10 minute meditations. i'll check out the links you sent me over the next couple of weeks. i also found this one by jon kabat zinn which i really like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Fa50oj45s , i tried to find more by him but they are quite different with longer silences and don't resonate as much. let me know if you know any good ones by him.
thanks closeau also for sharing. yeah, i have meditated on and off for years so it's not brand new to me, but it's probably been about a year since i've taken it seriously and realized that i really need to do this every day to cope with life. i am very sorry to hear about your mom's death.. but i am glad meditation is helping you. one of the hardest things now is how relentless my paranoia has gotten. i think things are starting to go better for me (even still afraid to say it) but after a year of so much instability and hits and misses it's like i won't let myself believe it and it's very hard not to expect the worst. going to keep practicing..
forgive me for not replying in depth to your longer posts, and doing more venting than responding. i'm still in a fairly constant stated of overwhelmed, so it's hard for me to read so many words and respond to everything that has been said. but it does not mean i don't appreciate it.
sleep is still pretty bad. some nights are better than others. again also curious if anyone has experienced hunger issues in relation to insomnia/stress or knows anything about it - it's confusing and difficult to be hungry this much and not know if it's my regular body or if it's elevated from exhaustion and stress. i don't think i was this hungry when i was smoking pot and sleeping like a rock. it seems like no matter what i eat, whether it's a very filling breakfast (eggs, toast, avocado) or less filling meal (potato and chickpea soup) i am hungry again around 3 hours later..
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closeau
Bluelighter
Youre doing it custard and im proud of you. Sleep will come back. Shit, if i dont take my meds at night i cant sleep a wink. Kolonopin, hydroxizine, and trazadone knock me out. I usually take them and in the hr it takes to kick in i meditate and pray. Sleep like a baby. Youll get there. You have a great start!! Keep it up!
manboychef
Bluelighter
have you tried writing in a journal before bed. Sometimes it helps to clear the mind.
P0kemama
Bluelighter
Custard: There is a woman named Belleruth Naparstek who has some guided imagery CD's that I purchased on Amazon. (They may be on Youtube, but I don't know for sure).
She has CD's for almost everything: Wellness, Trauma, Grief, Sleep issues, etc. (My daughter and I joke she even has one for picking your nose). I find they are similar in many ways, with a portion of the CD devoted to the specific issue. Most people who have heard them have many positive comments... only 1 or 2 people reacted negatively to her tone of voice. Anyway, just putting that out there in response to your request for tips on guided meditations. Take care, and keep up the good work!
She has CD's for almost everything: Wellness, Trauma, Grief, Sleep issues, etc. (My daughter and I joke she even has one for picking your nose). I find they are similar in many ways, with a portion of the CD devoted to the specific issue. Most people who have heard them have many positive comments... only 1 or 2 people reacted negatively to her tone of voice. Anyway, just putting that out there in response to your request for tips on guided meditations. Take care, and keep up the good work!
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Keep up the good work custard! Jon karat zinn is the God Father of the current MBSR mindful awareness movement, in terms of the application to modern medicine (like his work with chronic pain patients in Mass and via Insight). He's help make the field more accessabke, popular even. Anyways you can't go wrong with him (although personally I'm not a big fan of his guided meditations, and his books are pretty good, although also not my favorite). Pm me if you want some advice on good teachers and their work.
P0kemama
Bluelighter
You are welcome, Custard. My name came about due to having sons that were little Pokemon card addicts back in the day... it was a natural, as I supported their habit, lol.
As for feeling overwhelmed with all the resources... I too, feel the same way, as I am looking forward to exploring those I am not familiar with. Merry Christmas if you celebrate, Happy Holidays if not!
feedtheSoul
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
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- 132
guided meditation almost always does it for me. and make sure that you are in a sleeping position that supports the natural structure of your body so that you dont feel pressure at some points that arent supported. i have a lot of pillows haha. white noise also helps me a lot, i put it on pretty loud.