NMDA antagonists for depression - will these cravings end!?

[dopamimetic]

Well as some of you'll know, I've used these dissociatives pretty heavily against my mess of emotions (depression, anxiety, personality disorder, introversion - whatever) with great success but also unfortunately illegal. Due to recent circumstances, I am forced to stop using any drugs.

If it only was possible to get a real script for ketamine against mental problems here, but this isn't.

And, of course, this is harder than expected. I am not physically addicted, and I think it's only partially mental addiction too, because there is no strong desire besides just wanting to feel normal. I hate who I am when sober. I feel more sober, more normal on a right (pretty low) dose of MXE or ketamine. Even with tolerance, maybe 10-15mg's of ketamine would make the depressions, anxiety, sadness and loneliness disappear within minutes and make me feel okay with me and the world. Maybe 25-30mg's and I'd be ready to go out and talk with people. Add some other 15mg's or so and I could make new friends ... you get it.

It's totally unlike any other drug class I know of and feels throughout therapeutically. No desire to take more when the plateau is reached (just would like a really long lasting compound again to be able to forget about it completely), no real withdrawal. Just my fucking old self again. Don't know if I'm lying to myself on this, but with the opioids or even dopaminergic stimulants I always was aware of the negatives and all that.

As I've really tried to do psychotherapy and all that in my younger years, as well as a bunch of psychopharms, I have not that much hope in therapy or rehab left. There's some possibility that they won't even accept that I wasn't taking the ketamine to get high but as a therapeutical. My experiences with drug counseling were that for them everything one takes is addictive and is to get high, even if it's just vitamins. Sigh. To be honest, they didn't really have a clue about recent science and pharmacology etc.. as usual.

Yeah, have no one to speak about this in real life at all. That doesn't make it easier exactly.

 

[Listening]

Due to recent circumstances, I am forced to stop using any drugs.

May I ask what those circumstances are? Maybe there's a way to look at this as a good thing. I sometimes enjoy having absolutely no choice for things like this. Right now you are feeling cravings, but if you accept the absoluteness of the situation, it will have the opposite effect: It will free up space in your mind, since there's nothing left to think about here.

How long have you been sober? Give yourself a chance to get into the new groove before assessing how bad it is.

As I've really tried to do psychotherapy and all that in my younger years, as well as a bunch of psychopharms, I have not that much hope in therapy or rehab left. There's some possibility that they won't even accept that I wasn't taking the ketamine to get high but as a therapeutical. My experiences with drug counseling were that for them everything one takes is addictive and is to get high, even if it's just vitamins.

How long has it been since you were in psychotherapy? When you did it in "your younger years" were you sent by your parents? IMO, there is a world of difference between that and seeking out and choosing your own therapist, as an adult. When you do so, that person is 100% on your side, by definition. You are their client. You find someone that you can trust and stick with them for a long time. Since you've been living with this for so long, don't think of it as someone who is going to "fix you" but someone who can, possibly, help, bit by bit.

Anyway, I too have been experimenting with NMDA antagonists for therapeutic use for quite a while. I have no doubt that they can really be useful, but I am also sure that they can be deluding and possibly block / delay the real work that will eventually need to take place whilst sober. I have no idea if that's the case for you, but since you have no choice now, perhaps it's a good time to start or continue that sober work.

Good luck.

 

[dopamimetic]

Thanks for your reply.

Well, it's difficult. I heavily suspect to have some weird genetics which lead to my emotional problems, because this runs in my family - my mother has lifelong mental problems too, but she doesn't think about them - it's the fault of others. Because of this, I left home when I was 17 and severely traumatized from school and mobbing ... completely alone, tried to seek help from psychiatry and have gone through hell repeatedly. I am very lucky to be able to live in freedom at least at the moment, this is something quite a few others I've met and seen in some horrible psychiatric places can't any more.

I have to face a legal lawsuit due to a fucking moron calling these bastards of police when I had a panic attack due to a mislabelled RC. It's about possession of formerly-legal RCS like MXE. Might have to go to jail for at least two fucking years, because I have criminal records already - due to shitty lawyers mainly and being a mentally weak person who admitted everything they requested, even if it wasn't really the case. The aggressor who physically misused me, could easily have lost my left eye, got away as the victim. Had to pay him several thousands. This was a time when I really wanted to kill someone.

I hate to have no choice. I am considering almost everything to get around this hell, I know I can't stand prison, if the lawsuit continues, I will consider suicide for sure. I have gone through enough aggression, misuse and all that, I am overly sensitive and absolutely lonely, enough is just enough.

Why can't the fucking world just accept that there are people who are different than the others, and just let them life their lives!? I didn't harm anyone. I didn't sell or hand out any substances. I just want to feel normal and have a social life like everyone else.

There are fucking psychopaths and maniacs out there who rape and abuse people every day and they get away with less or nothing. Saw this repeatedly first-hand with colleagues (females) and dream of these things at least once a week. This makes me mad.

Sorry.

 

[Listening]

I'm feel for you, for what you've gone through, and for this current legal battle. I sincerely hope you can avoid jail time.

I'm not gong to try to convince you that the world is a fair place. We both know that it often is not. I hope you leave suicide off the table however. You still don't know the end to this story. You may yet find a way to live in this ridiculous world.

No need to be sorry. Feel free to PM if you ever want to talk.

 

[Rastahund]

I can relate to you a lot... I am currently heavily struggling with my own ketamine addiction... I don't really know why I abuse it, like you seem to know the cause of your abuse... but I do know that I struggle with walking depression and borderline personality disorder. Although I know many other ketamine addicts, no one seems to have as little control over their addiction as I do. I just can't stop... I had to leave town so I can hopefully make it at least a week and (maybe?) clear my head enough to fight the cravings.
If you find an answer to this deep, deep hole, I would love to hear it! I am lost too.

 

[dopamimetic]

Interestingly, I wouldn't call ketamine traditionally addictive, at least not that addictive - it's just so fucking effective. But probably I am cheating onto myself on this, I don't know. It's very possible that taking ketamine makes the depression worse as a rebound effect. But usually addictive drugs tend to have their effects fade away and leave one just with taking it to avoid withdrawal and/or the need to increase dosage every few days ...

Am thinking about what I have left to do if life continues to be what it currently is - not worth living, but I fear of suicide really. So well - what do we have? Alcohol, benzodiazepines, maybe opioids. Fuck. All is orders of magnitudes worse than ketamine. I don't tolerate neuroleptics (hell on earth and became psychotic repeatedly from risperidone and chlorprothixene.. really weird genetics) and the antidepressants tend not to work for me.

With the arylcyclohexylamines, it's a bit different. Every time I take one of them, they work like magic. Within minutes I would feel not only normal, but in a positive mindset, ready to go out again, unable to believe how I felt just that short ago - Negative thoughts? What is this!? - and that depression is so real that I really would call it suicidal from time to time. My only hope is to find some working meds / antidepressants, but well.. it's a tiny hope. Why can't they just prescribe ketamine!? In some countries this is possible, for things like pain etc. but also refractory depression! There is so much recent science about this, and it really seems to work. The dissociative effects go away quickly, while the mood-lifting relieving ones stay. But of course, dissociative addiction is also a hard reality.

(Okay - new possibility. Find a country where it is possible and move to there, lol.)

Rastahund, do you use 'hole' dosages of ketamine, or at least ones that interfere with your everyday life, or do you also take it just as a 'therapeutical'?

Tried to switch to DXM because this one is legally available, didn't work. Feels heavily toxic and dirty. These arylcyclohexylamines are chemical magic, good or bad ... depends on how you look at it. But as I have been fighting with depression and borderline (interesting, Rastahund btw.. me too) etc. for my whole life, so it's really not the ketamine causing it.