Drone pilots have Bank Accounts and Credit Cards Frozen for Exposing U.S Murder

[F.U.B.A.R.]

look to like at the route of the problem.

Well at least I can string a sentence together and spell. I'm sorry I have a different opinion to yourself, but it wouldn't be very interesting if we were all the same, would it? You obviously don't like being disagreed with, so go back to reading 'socialist worker', mate

Having said that, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, or condoning any of 'our' actions either now or in the past. But it seems very easy to just say 'well its all our fault, you reap what you sow', which implies that 'they' are totally without blame.

 

[SmokingAces]

Sorry if I am a bit snappy the last few days I'm in a terrible mood about a lot of things.

I don't think Isis aren't a bad bunch, look at what they've done in France just recently. However I do believe that the U.S. have caused the birth of these terrorist organisations in the Middle East with their aggressive foreign policy. They are quite simply raging war, destabilising governments and robbing natural resources; it's not for our security at all.

 

[Sprout]

Divide, conquer, divide, conquer, divide, conquer, ad infinitum

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Ok for any interested, trolls I guess will occur.

Of course, anyone with a slight difference of opinion to yourself is obviously a 'troll'. It's exactly that narrow minded way of thinking that fosters groups like ISIS, who aren't exactly renowned for tolerance and understanding

 

[SmokingAces]

What exactly made you think he was directing that at you though? He said trolls because he knows he will likely be scorned as a conspiracy theorist, like throwing that big dirty word out there then nothing he says is taken as credible, which I have seen happen before on this site.

What is your actual theory on all this then FUBAR? Instead of us all getting into an argument we could all take each other's theories at face value and maybe all of we can all learn a little from each other, if only each other's opinions.

I don't think itsallgoneundertheboa is a mile off with his line of thinking, in fact it's fairly similar to my own. That doesn't make me right or you wrong.

 

[Sprout]

I don't think that was Boa's intention.
I thought it was more in reference to the tendency for discussion of these matters to devolve into:

"You're a nutjob"
"You just believe them!"

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

What exactly made you think he was directing that at you though? He said trolls because he knows he will likely be scorned as a conspiracy theorist, like throwing that big dirty word out there then nothing he says is taken as credible, which I have seen happen before on this site.

What is your actual theory on all this then FUBAR? Instead of us all getting into an argument we could all take each other's theories at face value and maybe all of we can all learn a little from each other, if only each other's opinions.

I don't think itsallgoneundertheboa is a mile off with his line of thinking, in fact it's fairly similar to my own. That doesn't make me right or you wrong.

I didn't say he was referring to myself specifically, but the implication was 'anyone with a differing viewpoint must be a 'troll'. Furthermore, I don't need a 'theory on all this' - it is plain and simple - whatever the causes, whatever their excuses, these people are a threat to our way of life. I don't know about you, but I would much rather have our way of life than one imposed upon us by a bunch of fanatical religious extremists who desire the end of times because they believe their place in 'heaven' is assured. Just for the record, I agree with Jeremy Corbyn's stance against bombing Syria. Surprising as it might seem, i dont agree with killing civilians, whatever their race or religion. I also don't read the daily mail Unfortunately, even if we don't do it, everyone else will, and that will strain relationships with our allies. Nothing is simple in this world and sometimes difficult decisions need to be made. How would you feel if ISIS managed to obtain nuclear weapons? I'm pretty sure they would have no qualms about using them against us and everyone else. Even if we had supplied the nuclear weapons, they would still need to be stopped. It's a fucked up world for sure, and there are no easy answers...

(That's why I would much prefer to get off my tits as much as possible and just fuck the world )

 

[Sprout]

I've made a good few posts over the last few days regarding the inherent divisions we never question, because they are an easy way to avoid questioning the actual constructs that form them.
Science Vs. Religion simply produced feats of science and technology that are used to massacre people under the guise of religion.
West Vs. Middle East produced a division that makes the life of all humankind something we assign specific values to. Specifically; genocide of "them" isn't as bad as the genocide of "us".
"Sovereign territory" Vs. "Sovereign territory" produced the Military Industrial Complex that feeds off the death of the (typically) poor and gives ruthless sociopaths a means to an end that never actually ends.

All the wars, all the conflict, humankind pays the price while nothing changes apart from the worthless numbers in the pockets of those who use those numbers to create even more destructive weaponry.

My single greatest fear is the day the Military Industrial Complex produces a Biological Weapon of Mass Destruction at the same time as the political overlords incite enough division to "justify" their use.
There's no coming back once we jump into that abyss.

 

[Itsgoneundertheboa]

Exactly that sprouty

My opinion I except is just that. I do realise it is just opinion / theory. As Sid asked I gave it.

The comment was not aimed at anyone absolutely not your good self FUBAR, who I respect as a highly intelligent and knowledgeable chap who has taught me a lot of REAL facts rather than theory. Your very funny to and given me countless chuckles. Actually it hurts me that I did offend you.

I will edit. Sincere apologies if i came across as a know it all who does not allow any other view. I welcome constructive opinion and criticism, always. I would never force my view on anyone without the right to reply or question.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Exactly that sprouty

My opinion I except is just that. I do realise it is just opinion / theory. As Sid asked I gave it.

The comment was not aimed at anyone absolutely not your good self FUBAR, who I respect as a highly intelligent and knowledgeable chap who has taught me a lot of REAL facts rather than theory. Your very funny to and given me countless chuckles. Actually it hurts me that I did offend you.

I will edit. Sincere apologies if i came across as a know it all who does not allow any other view. I welcome constructive opinion and criticism, always. I would never force my view on anyone without the right to reply or question.

Boa, please also accept my apologies for implying an attitude which was not your intention. I guess I was still a little prickly after Sid's 'daily mail' jibe (the cunt ). Unfortunately, no topics are more devisive than politics and religion (which to my mind are one and the same) and is the precise reason I try to avoid getting involved - but sometimes it's very hard not to. Anyway, no hard feelings either to yourself or Sid - as I implied earlier, we can't all agree all the time.

PLUR

 

[swedger77]

PLUR indeed!

Good thread. Lots of good points on both sides of the fence I'm sitting on.

For the record I'm totally against airstrikes in Syria. My opinion is the UK should only get involved when there is a direct threat against the UK.

 

[ScotchMist]

On the news the other day the reporter was walking through a hanger at a UK Base, there was about 10 or so of these 20ft fancy looking containers which were where the pilots for these drones sit and fly them. Wars fucked up anyway, but there was something so Fuckin sinister and removed about this.

You could get some gamer kid sat in there dropping bombs like it is a game..

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

On the news the other day the reporter was walking through a hanger at a UK Base, there was about 10 or so of these 20ft fancy looking containers which were where the pilots for these drones sit and fly them. Wars fucked up anyway, but there was something so Fuckin sinister and removed about this.

You could get some gamer kid sat in there dropping bombs like it is a game..

Aye, undoubtedly very sinister - but not really that far removed from guided missiles of any sort - which have been around for donkeys years. War is getting far too easy for my liking - perhaps governments might think twice if wars were still fought by hand to hand combat using cold steel. Even better, get the heads of state to settle their differences by a bare knuckle fight to the death instead of getting other poor cunts to do their dirty work for them...

 

[BecomingJulie]

GMO's are a marvellous scientific feat that are hated by those who prefer to yell 'Monsanto!' than learn about them.

Quite. If you've ever eaten cabbages, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts or anything cooked in rapeseed oil, then you have basically been eating genetically modified organisms. Brassica sativa is a rather more general-purpose ancestor of all the others; and the fact that they were bred over generations from naturally-occurring random mutations is merely the same process being short-circuited in the laboratory.

Don't conflate a neutral technology with the way it has been misused by some to monopolise and monetise.

 

[Eveleivibe]

This is a nightmare to quote for some reason, can't copy it. Maybe mods can.

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/11...ds-frozen-by-feds-for-exposing-us-murder.html

For anyone that didn't already agree there is proof this war on Isis is no more than a bloodbath killing innocent people. The pilots are quoting a 90% civilian figure as what the U.S are bombing. Referring to children as "fun sized terrorists" and killing them as "cutting the grass before it grows too long"

Doesn't surprise me in the least. During the latest 'war' in Afghanistan I saw a leaked video taken from a US helicopter and they were just circling and shooting civilians in the street while the chopper crew were whoopin' and a hollerin' and shouting 'yeehar' and other shit. Even when people came to help the injured the yanks were gunning them down. Sickening...

Wow that's absolutely dreadful

Evey

 

[Vurtual]

Quite. If you've ever eaten cabbages, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts or anything cooked in rapeseed oil, then you have basically been eating genetically modified organisms. Brassica sativa is a rather more general-purpose ancestor of all the others; and the fact that they were bred over generations from naturally-occurring random mutations is merely the same process being short-circuited in the laboratory.

Don't conflate a neutral technology with the way it has been misused by some to monopolise and monetise.

I won't do that if you don't suggest that shoving a gene in some e-coli and chucking it an an organism in the hope that some of the genes you inserted end up where you want them is the same as getting animals and plants to breed with each other. Of course i have no problem with the principle of science and technology, but i'm afraid it can't be separated from the monetisation and monopolisation in our current system. As Bakunin said (i think) 'the means become the end'. Until we really actually understand how genetics work as part of a holistic system i think it's probably best we don't let coprorate sociopaths decide whether to release their creations into the wild for their own ends. The chance of unintended consequences are way too high (or even the intended ones are often bad enough). If it's no different from selective breeding, just do that to be on the safe side.

Don't forget that monsanto gave us, among other horrors, dioxins - the most carcinogenic substance on earth which pollutes all our oceans to this day; they had a good idea how dangerous it was and carried on anyway. I'm sure there were numerous useful scientific idiots at the time, all too ready to trust the scientific authorities and to castigate anyone with any doubts as being a luddite against progress. Would you use asbestos to fix you roof cos i'm sure 'science' said exactly the same there too.

When you look up the many claims the GM industry made over the years but which we never heard anything more about, it turns out nearly all of them failed in their designed aims (though then they'd fudge it and claim some new aims). The only one that really worked was roundup ready, and now we 'find out' that glyphosate is a carcinogen anyway. The big mistake is to conflate the actions of these horrible corporations with 'science'.

 

[SmokingAces]

^Very good post Vurtual. That's the way I see it too.

 

[Sprout]

We do understand GMO's, pretty fukkin' well, actually.
No one has ever claimed that horizontal gene transmission of plasmids doesn't occur - this is the mechanism behind gene transfer from one bacterial cell to another.
GM Corn is a bit different, a plasmid alone is not capable of entering your DNA through food.

It's not some random mad scientist pumping genes into your food on a whim, it prevents the horrendous loss of food that occurs if we don't act.
Creating a plant that can withstand freezing winters kinda has a lot of use when good farmland is unavailable, and prevents another Potato Famine.

 

[BecomingJulie]

Agreed. It's only a problem when the likes of Monsanto try to claim some sort of "intellectual property rights" on living organisms, and charge you more in royalties for growing pest-resistant crops that they own the rights to, than they would charge you for growing crops they had bred for resistance to their pesticides which they would also sell you. And that's not a GM issue, but an IP issue.

 

[Vurtual]

We do understand GMO's, pretty fukkin' well, actually.
No one has ever claimed that horizontal gene transmission of plasmids doesn't occur - this is the mechanism behind gene transfer from one bacterial cell to another.
GM Corn is a bit different, a plasmid alone is not capable of entering your DNA through food.

It's not some random mad scientist pumping genes into your food on a whim, it prevents the horrendous loss of food that occurs if we don't act.
Creating a plant that can withstand freezing winters kinda has a lot of use when good farmland is unavailable, and prevents another Potato Famine.

I'm not some anti-science person - i just think that the science of these things (ie cell biology and genetics) is not as certain as industry scientists would claim; understanding of epigenetics and gene switching is still in its infancy so there's still so much to learn which might change how 'safely' some view the stuff we do now (i've heard it said that this (switching) increases the complexity of the genetic model by an order of magnitude (a living active network rather than a passive code)).

Already many of the huge claims of the genetic industry given in the 90s have turned out to be wrong, simplistic or way overreaching; much of the early research that 'proved' the safety of GMOs has subsequently turned out to be bogus (eg the tumours in rats from GM potatos) (and what happened to the golden rice?) This is the same old story of money influencing science - that's not to tar science itself as being the cause of the problems; if anything it's a lack of science (like when the results that wouldn't please the backers gets ignored).

I remember reading about all the similar arguments about the green revolution and while it arguably had immediate benefits, in the long term it has done lots of damage to the viability of our agriculture. You could say it's a coincidence how often mainstream 'science' ends up supporting what the corporate interests want to do - i'm not so sure (an honorable exception would i guess be climate change)