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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Drugs and Extraversion

T

TheHedonist99

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
33
Hey BLers,

I was watching this video the other day of someone on shrooms draw out some crazy theory, (https://www.youtube.com/embed/EGwXBOYfHu4?rel=0&start=0&end=111&autoplay=1) - I've set the video to start and end at certain times - and I thought this resonates much with (at least my) depression and anxiety. Essentially, I spend too much time thinking, rather than just living in the moment. Instead of submerging myself in reality, I submerge myself with thoughts. I know this description might be a bit vague, but I think it's easier to understand once you consider the extremes: at one end you have an existential philosopher such as Nietzsche, and on the other side you have someone like Lil Wayne. As stupid as this may sound, I want to be more like Lil Wayne - more simplistic and with less of a brain: more ape-like and instinct-driven. I made these diagrams which I hope explains what I mean well:

300e3i0.jpg


2wdbymo.jpg


I also think this pic could explain how some of the personality traits relate to brain mechanisms:

five_facets.gif


If anybody has any ideas as to what drugs could hopefully permanently make me less contemplative and stoic and more, well, I suppose sociable, I would be very appreciative. Cheers =D
 
Where did you get those descriptions of introvert and extrovert? I'm not sure those are accurate.

But to answer your question, the drug you're looking for is called THERAPY. There's no magic chemical to change your personality.
 
Yeah maybe I could have used better terms. But there is NO WAY therapy can help me stop thinking about things, as it requires a conscious effort, which only involves more thinking. The only way is through chemicals or scenarios in which contemplation wouldn't be an option (e.g. a fight or flight scenario). Perhaps a drug releasing adrenaline would help, I can't see contemplation as evolutionary beneficial while facing a threat...
 
TheRapperGoneBad said:
Exactly this.

Your over thinking it lol give it a chance
Click to expand...

But therapy requires a conscious effort, hence thinking about something. I want to chemically alter myself to not think about something, there is no therapy that can help one to stop thinking so often.
 
- Alcohol is the obvious and classic example. It suppresses the cerebral hemispheres associated with inhibition and restraint. So ta da! Instant extrovert.
- Benzodiazepines are GABAergic drugs like alcohol and also suppress an individual's inhibitions through their anxiolytic effect.
- Amphetamines can go either way, but many people (including myself) find them to be very effective anxiolytics.
- Psychedelic hallucinogens such as psilocybin and LSD have been reported to make long-term positive changes in the personalities of certain individuals, including increased levels of openness/empathy

Not necessarily recommending any of these things, but you asked...
 
TheHedonist99 said:
But therapy requires a conscious effort, hence thinking about something. I want to chemically alter myself to not think about something, there is no therapy that can help one to stop thinking so often.
Click to expand...

What your trying to do is find an easy fix to a complex problem.

As burnt said some of those will work take booze for an example.
Get drunk an see if you don't blurt out whatever comes to mind doesn't make it a good thing.

I'd much rather have a filter an think before I speak.

Also to fix any problem takes a conciouss effort.

What you should do is take that effort to be more comfortable with your self threw things like therapy, so that way you aren't as self conciouss or worried about what you say.

Taking booze benzos psychs or stims is making a conciouss effort to take the substance at hand just for your information. ;)

Also what's to say stress or anxiety isn't triggering your constant thoughts ( think it actually happens for all of us considering we are alive)

Anything can be worked threw but it takes work.
 
Burnt Offerings said:
- Alcohol is the obvious and classic example. It suppresses the cerebral hemispheres associated with inhibition and restraint. So ta da! Instant extrovert.
- Benzodiazepines are GABAergic drugs like alcohol and also suppress an individual's inhibitions through their anxiolytic effect.
- Amphetamines can go either way, but many people (including myself) find them to be very effective anxiolytics.
- Psychedelic hallucinogens such as psilocybin and LSD have been reported to make long-term positive changes in the personalities of certain individuals, including increased levels of openness/empathy

Not necessarily recommending any of these things, but you asked...
Click to expand...

So would I be right in saying that decreased contemplation and increased sociableness is at least partially a result of GABA stimulation and glutamate inhibition?
 
TheRapperGoneBad said:
Taking booze benzos psychs or stims is making a conciouss effort to take the substance at hand just for your information. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, taking it is a conscious effort to stop thinking, but while under the effects you aren't conscious of the attempt the brain has made to contemplate less, that's like saying while on LSD you are consciously trying to hallucinate. You are not, while on LSD you cannot control these hallucinations (or so I would imagine, I haven't taken it (yet))
 
Okay, so I think I have a partial answer to all of this (and an explanation for why ketamine helps so much with depression, thought I reckon we already know why). It seems complex and extraneous activity, such as rumination, is caused by a sensitivity to more signals in the brain. With an increase in GABA and a decrease in glutamate, only the largest brain signals are activated. Evolutionary, the largest brain signals would be the most basic ones needed for survival, and it seems the smaller brain signals are almost the superfluous ones, such as abstract thought (this all makes sense, primitive beings would have no need for abstract thought). So, the way I perceive it, increased GABA and decreased glutamate reduces you to this very basic primitive instinct-driven being, with a far lesser trace of thought and more focus on living in the moment (what I want). This may explain why ketamine helps with depression, as it is a NMDA receptor antagonist, and so reduces glutamate signalling. I think this is one aspect to the complex human state, and by this I mean the state of complex and abstract thought which seems to be absent from all other organisms. Inositol seems to be a supplement that modulates serotonin levels naturally (rather than through 5-HTP supplements), which also should help.

So, so far, this 'magic pill' or 'magic stack' would combine a GABA precursor (I think L-Theanine works, which can cross the bbb), an NMDA antagonist (such as magnesium and zinc), a serotonin modulator (inositol). I don't really wanna take benzos if I'm honest, I never want to be addicted to anything. Hallucinogens seems to be interesting for neurogenesis in the hippocampus. Any other ideas?
 
TheHedonist99 said:
So would I be right in saying that decreased contemplation and increased sociableness is at least partially a result of GABA stimulation and glutamate inhibition?
Click to expand...

Certainly GABA plays a role, that's the reason why benzodiazepines are effective drugs. Other neurotransmitters like norepinephrine also plays roles. I know that there's also been theories that social phobias have roots in the β-adrenergic receptor, which is why beta blockers can sometimes be useful for certain situations (like public speaking), as they interact with these receptors. There are also theories about abnormal dopamine reuptake in people with social anxiety, etc. etc
 
To OP: I think you have the definition of extrovert and introvert wrong.

An Extrovert draws strength and recharges his energy by being around others and taking part in social activities. For example: After a long day of work an extrovert would relax and unwind by going out for a few drinks with friends.

An Introvert draws strength and recharges his energy by being by themselves. For example: The extroverts coworker was asked to go have drinks with his friends, however he had a hard day at work as well and went home to quietly read for an hour to relax.

There is a difference between extroversion/introversion and sociability. I am an introvert, though I like spending time with friends, I unwind by listening to a little music, or reading a book.
 
I am extremely contemplative, but, with my worldview of life (Life is pointless, God doesn't exist etc.) all my stoic sessions lead to existential depression. There are, I believe, four ways to end this existential depression. Firstly, I could believe in God, but with the lack of evidence I have found myself unable to do that. The second is to revel in my own suffering, adopting Nietzsche's 'Übermensch' mindset, however I have found implementing this mindset to be impossible. The third path would be to disregard all empathy and not care about all the sufferings of life, sort of becoming a psychopath and a sociopath, doing things without care for others and without care about how life is pointless (essentially not giving a shit about the dire situation of life), and although from my nihilist point of view this wouldn't necessary be a 'bad' thing, at the moment I have a lot of empathy and in my current state of mind couldn't bring myself to instigate suffering. So, the forth option I have come to is to try and simply stop contemplating.
 
Please read my thread here about NMDA overactivity, emotional oversensitivity, hyper cognition, depression, introversion, social anxiety etc ..... this could all fit so well.

TheHedonist99 - you sound like me. And there is actual pharmacological possibility for us to stop suffering & start living.
 
It's funny that we seem to run into the same topic at the same time ;) may I ask in which country you're living? (Contact me through PM if you like!)
 
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