Nifoxipam sensitivity to heat? Solubility?

[AlphaOdure]

So i ordered 250mg of raw nifoxipam powder. I stupidly assumed it was soluble in PG like most other benzos & mixed it in w/ 25mL, hoping for 10mg per mL solution. Stupid, doesn't work. not soluble.

Found out from the vendor that it is mostly soluble in liquid DMSO or water that isn't acidic but w/ base pH

So to the 25 pg I added tap water, 100mL. But not being keen in chemistry, the water must have been too pure w/ a 7 PH or too acidic b/c it didn't dissolve in that either. i poured it out of glass bottle i originally had it in, into a more wider, flat glass bowl (for evaporation of the water).. so had to add an extra 10mL water & shook vigorously to completely empty the glass bottle, in attempts to extract the remaining nifoxipam sludge

I plan on taking my 25pg+110mL water+250mg nifoxipam concoction & putting the flat dish in a large frying pan on low heat (just placing the dish in the pan, not pouring into pan b/c then there is undissolved, left over nifoxipam sludge that i have to deal with & want to add the least amount of extra solvents)- hopefully this will dissolve off most of the h20 & then i will add DSMO.

Question is:

• will low heat damage the nifoxipam?
• anyone know the solubility of nifoxipam in DSMO? i'd like to add the least amount possible since i'll already have 25mg pg & H20 stuck in the concoction.
• was also told by vendor a plastic spoon will attract the nifoxipam via static charge, left spoon sitting in water (nothing yet)- or is this a naive attempt?
• or does anyone have any better ideas?

I'm just afraid of damaging the nifoxipam & NEED to get it dissolved in something its soluble in, like the DMSO.

 

[clubcard]

The lower the pH, the higher the solubility. Benzos in DMSO sounds like a way to unknowingly drugging others - that's a serious crime.

 

[AlphaOdure]

ughh

 

[AlphaOdure]

The lower the pH, the higher the solubility. Benzos in DMSO sounds like a way to unknowingly drugging others - that's a serious crime.

or should i just add some baking soda & mix in w/ the current solution? lol..? idk how soluble that would be though.. doesn't seem consistent enough.

And um "serious crime"- listen buddy, i'm not trying to "drug" anyone (if that were the case, why not get something like clonazepam active >0.25mg; or something very amnesic like flubromazepam or phenazepam... not some exotic nifoxipam)...this is merely the only thing this stuff is soluble in according to the vendor. no PG solubility surprisingly... (and i stupidly found this out b/c i was too excited to try it, i didn't research first--just assumed.. even tho there IS a huge lack of info on nifoxipam)

 

[AlphaOdure]

Yes but i need something nifoxipam is soluble in, & DSMO is the only thing they said it would work in.. that or very base-water. & i've never worked w/ liquid DSMO anyway.. but by amazon it seems pretty cheap. However, i don't know how much i need i don't know how soluble nifoxipam is soluble is in the stuff? what mg per mL? anyone have this info?

i just NEED this nifoxipam dissolved in something (even though there will be extra PG in there for no reason.. & some water.. but i'm trying to evaporate that off)

Just back to my original OP questions... anyone know if nifoxipam will be damaged by low heat if put on a stove stop burner (on lowest setting)... it would be in flat glass bowl, set in a glass boiling pot...

hopefully, this would evaporate off all the H20 right??

 

[neurotic]

You could try and put your solution in the freezer to reduce the amount of nifoxipam dissolved in it, may be to a point where there barely is any in solution, then filter it out... Then leave your nifoxipam under a lamp to further dry it, and dissolve it in the DMSO.

 

[AlphaOdure]

You could try and put your solution in the freezer to reduce the amount of nifoxipam dissolved in it, may be to a point where there barely is any in solution, then filter it out... Then leave your nifoxipam under a lamp to further dry it, and dissolve it in the DMSO.

hmm novel idea! i think i'm gonna try that!

 

[manboychef]

Let me know how that works out. I have always been interested in why most benzos are only soluble in PG.

 

[neurotic]

it's because benzos are sold in the free base from, which is apolar - water is polar. they should be soluble in other organic solvents like ethanol for example too, not only PG.

like heroin no. 3 vs no. 4; no. 3 is the free base, and is not water soluble, it has to be made in to a salt (no. 4). benzos aren't usually salted because they decompose easily when ionized

 

[AlphaOdure]

You could try and put your solution in the freezer to reduce the amount of nifoxipam dissolved in it, may be to a point where there barely is any in solution, then filter it out... Then leave your nifoxipam under a lamp to further dry it, and dissolve it in the DMSO.

Well its fozen... (in a flat glass dish as i said before)... but it hasn't seemed to separate as it did before (before you could tell the yellowish nifoxipam was mostly at the the bottom of the pg+H20 solution). So, what should i do from here tol evaporate extra H20? Do you think putting it on a burner w/ low heat would be ok (or could that potentially damage the nifoxipam?), or should i just put it under a lamp for a few days?

 

[neurotic]

i don't know about heating. it could work.

i should've said to leave it in the freezer but not let it freeze, lol, just leave it very cold. what we're trying to do is essentially a cold water extraction. once it's very cold, filter it through a funnel + filter paper... the nifoxipam should stay stuck in the filter since it's not dissolved in the PG + water.

if the nifoxipam is already suspended/not dissolved, you could do this even without cooling the water/PG before. cooling would diminish the amount you'd lose by reducing the amount of nifoxipam dissolved though.

 

[AlphaOdure]

^^good idea, & i think its the route i'll take. B/c i can the just dry out the remaining nifoxipam.. and weigh my doses out w/ my 0.00X scale. i know its not a mcg scale, which would be ideal w/ a drug active at 2.5mg, but, i have quite a tolerance. I dose 25 or 35mg clonazepam usually 3x a day.

But tbh, theres been some question on this vendors "potency" lately on reddit. And this would make sense; as before i started the clonazepam, around 4mg of alprazolam 3x held me over.. i am planning to soon order another 250mg from a different vendor and i'll compare potencies then (i take benzos, admittedly, to self-medicate depression; but it seems to be the only thing that works. Even in the mornings before my usual benzo doses... i'm engaging w/ family again, interested in hobbies again, am not neglecting but tackling responsibilities! i've been searching for the past 2 yrs w/o success through diff crap SSRIs, SNRIs, SDNRIs, novel anti depressants & was even put on abilify & depakote at once point, no result except an added 30 lbs. Only thing thats worked on my depression is GABAergics; although gabapentin helps too)

but anyway, enough about me, yea i like you're advice so far neurotic! My only concern is that some nifoxipam has dissolved in the water? And btw, about how long would it take to "dry out" the material if strained through coffee filters (or should i use a ripped up T-shirt)? Shit, i know this is basic chemistry i should know.. but, i never did CWE w/ codeine or hydrocodone+APAP before (i'd just eat 'em w/ the APAP, w/ no disregard for my liver uggh)

 

[aced126]

I dose 25 or 35mg clonazepam usually 3x a day.

Wtf... How long have you been on that regimen?

 

[neurotic]

If you cool the water to a very low temperature the amount of nifoxipam dissolved in it is likely to be very small. You can verify this with the mg scale, weighing the amount you got out of filtration. If the amount left behind is worth being retrieved (and has to be in a more concentrated sol'n) you could try evaporating the water and then extracting it of the remaining PG with coolingand filter again. But ofc not necessary... Just If there happens to be a lot of nifoxipam left in the water+PG...

Also I'd use coffee filters instead of a t-shirt.

Lastly if you're going to add DMSO to your nifoxipam after extracting it, you might not even need to dry it now that I think about it... Just leave it in the filter paper and run DMSO through it several times until there's nothing more left on the filter and it's all on the DMSO which hopefully you collected

 

[AlphaOdure]

Wtf... How long have you been on that regimen?

Only about a month! & i really only use it as an antidepressant to be honest.. use only at night/early afternoons.. mornings no use. Even before my acute dosages at night, i'm back to my normal self all during the day.. engaging w/ family; getting on the computer; back to hobbies..

before, i was absolutely isolating. Non-communicative.. wouldn't touch BL or my other forums, my guitar/hobbies like i said.. I just basically pursued women constantly for some form of outside reaffirmation of myself & got addicted to sex (getting myself terribly emotionally hurt in the process).

But, now? like my normal self, i'm happy/more comfortable being alone (not as in, not having sex or being asexual, or not wanting a g/f, but not as codependent, i.e., not needing a chick to make me feel good about myself). & its frustrating too b/c i KNOW no doc will take this as a reason to stay on benzos, despite me being on a slew of every kind of AD's since i was 16... SSRIs, SNRIs, atypicals, antipsychotics, even tried depakote+abilify at one point (which did nothing but make me gain 30lbs).. so i tapered off everything & felt pretty much the same.

My bitch for a doctor at the time said "theres basically no medicine left we can put you on except lithium." Well, i knew gabapentin worked, & was the only thing that worked (used to be on 600mg 5x a day; only thing is, didn't take everyday, once a week so i could keep the magic; so dont know how daily use is gonna turn out for depression?).. but she refused to put me on it b/c of my benzo using past. (was later told by my therapist, who knew her.. that she was "intimidated" by my knowledge of medicine, pharmacology, & pharmaceuticals & their effects.. lol, sheesh, even though my knowledge is very basic compared to you peeps over here; i always wondered why she'd never let me speak & was so short w/ me. it was such a one sided relationship- its a shame i'd say about ~60% of the docs i've seen have been this way).

Anyway, changed to a diff PCP who i only saw once but seemed really cool & answered all my questions & instantly referred me to a pain specialist (back injury from car accident) where i hoped to obtain gabapentin b/c it worked in the past when i was on it for my "mood-disorder". Well she did put me on gabapentin; not for mood disorder obviously, but at least i'm on it & its serving a dual purpose- mood & pain. But i'm still stacking it & taking it only once a week though, afraid of losing is "magic"- or taking it when my neuropathic pain is really bad. (cuz i'm still on a really low dose, she's "tapering" me up.. only 55 300mg pills for the month)


___________


ANYWAY, sorry, back to your question- But i have my suspicions the vendor i got it from has a "weak" batch, & there has been similar accusations made of him recently on reddit. B/c prior to this, i would get wrecked on 4-6mg of alprazolam (& supposedly 1mg of clonazepam equals around 4-6mg alprazolam!). But when i first tried his batch... 1mg; not much, maybe even placebo.. ended up having to take 6-10mg (can't remember exact dose now, but i was around there) to get to that nice anxiolytic, disinhibited state (not ripped or falling over high or anything).. which allows me to function like normal human being (but like i said, even in the mornings before i start my dosing I am back to my old self- could be from long half-life though. And who knows, maybe my brain is just permanently in need of GABAergics? )

However, i did go through about a week stage where I was literally IV'ing every other hour clonazepam and/or flubromazolam, but at lower doses (not really for the high, but the needle fetish). Put an end to that when i got an OVI & spent 3 days in jail (& took my full bottles of about 400mg clonazepam & 200mg flubromazolam for "testing" to see if it was some sort of narcotic, doubt i'll ever get that back ). This was about a week ago (spent 3 days in jail, got out exactly 7 days ago), since then i've just stopped IV'ing b/c i was just self destructing. & i am so much more stable now. So that IV'ing coulda shot up my tolerance, but, was off it for 3 days in jail? We'll see about the vendor issue b/c i'll have 250mg from another vendor here in about about 2-3 weeks.

Then again, i used to have about a year long 400mg/day etizolam habit up until last september (3mo long lorazepam taper got me off that. & i wasn't really using the etizolam as i am now w/ the clonazolam- i was getting ripped every night)..& as a result i did read, anecdotally of course, of another BLer who started using clonazepam after a period of sobriety from high doses of etizolam & needing really high doses as well. In my case, as i said, had to start out w/ about 6-10mg of clonazepam to get just minor relief.. I think he was about at the same >5mg at least. Of course idk if he was looking to get ripped or just for basic benzodiazepine-relief?

But i've only gotten from this one vendor, so it may be something w/ him. As i said, there have been a few minor accusations of his potency being bad, but the guy generally has had a great reputation over the years & has been around for a lifetime in the world of RC's.. & deals basically only w/ RC benzos.. but maybe the new vendor will give me a new perspective on things?

 

[AlphaOdure]

If you cool the water to a very low temperature the amount of nifoxipam dissolved in it is likely to be very small. You can verify this with the mg scale, weighing the amount you got out of filtration. If the amount left behind is worth being retrieved (and has to be in a more concentrated sol'n) you could try evaporating the water and then extracting it of the remaining PG with coolingand filter again. But ofc not necessary... Just If there happens to be a lot of nifoxipam left in the water+PG...

Also I'd use coffee filters instead of a t-shirt.

Lastly if you're going to add DMSO to your nifoxipam after extracting it, you might not even need to dry it now that I think about it... Just leave it in the filter paper and run DMSO through it several times until there's nothing more left on the filter and it's all on the DMSO which hopefully you collected

Okay, well did it... a lot of the nifoxipam was already at the bottom of the solution in the flat dish... so i was careful to pour it slowly through the strainer as to leave behind a great deal (i'd say a majority) of nifoxipam in the flat dish. So now will let that evaporate off (too bad its so cold out) unless there's too much PG in there.. And i did do it thru a coffee filter.. can see the grains of nifoxipam on there.. my concern is gonna be trying to scrape off the nifoxipam off the filter.. maybe it'll be easier once everything dries. I'm just afraid the added PG (not volatile) is gonna keep everything moist? isn't that going to be the case?

Now the remaining liquid is still yellow, so i know for sure some of that nifoxipam did dissolve in some of the water. Should i cool, & repeat? And any recommendations on what i could use as a filter instead of a coffee filter that may make it easier to scrape off of once the nifoxipam dries? Or am i basically just gonna have to soak all this crap in DMSO??

Basically doing a CWE in reverse here.. haha

(THANK YOU for all your help lately btw!)

 

[Solipsis]

Let me get this straight - correct me if Im wrong..

PG is a pretty polar solvent, you have nifoxipam freebase that is insoluble in the PG.
So why not just extract by adding a nonpolar solvent and optionally basifying to avoid ionized nifox..
Then take the - often volatile - nonpolar solution that has the nifox and separate it. Funnel is ideal but plenty of people do it ghetto style with DMT or DXM.. Evap it and voila?

I always succesfully dissolved things like alprazolam, diazepam, etizolam or meclonazepam etc in 96% ethanol.. Should work for you, try it with a small amount?

Then volumetric measurement using a decent concentration to avoid too much alcohol intake, but use airtight vials against the evaporation! Mark the level if you store it for a while so you know how much evaped.

Also, ive heard of extreme benzo tolerance before, that supposedly doesnt necessarily accompany acute withdrawal syndrome in proportionate intensity.. But can, and potentially lethal at that..
Maybe it is rather exponential than linear explaining the crazy tolerance?

In any case sorry you feel you have to resort to this.. I kicked year long benzo habit but like with ghb I never really went beyond double the "typical" doses. That matters a lot imo! Was terribly hard but at least no seizures or anything..

Doing ok now with pregabalin..
Good luck

 

[AlphaOdure]

Let me get this straight - correct me if Im wrong..

PG is a pretty polar solvent, you have nifoxipam freebase that is insoluble in the PG.
So why not just extract by adding a nonpolar solvent and optionally basifying to avoid ionized nifox..
Then take the - often volatile - nonpolar solution that has the nifox and separate it. Funnel is ideal but plenty of people do it ghetto style with DMT or DXM.. Evap it and voila?

Solipsis.. thanks man.. but you're talking Greek to me. If you mean just add the DMSO to the total concoction i had & figured out what mg per mL i had w/ everything added together...??? that was my original intention.

But since then i've done a reverse CWE... cooled the dish w/ the PG+water+nifoxipam; filtered thru coffee filter.. coffee filter is laid out drying which clearly has the yellowish nifoxipam powder on it (but i'm at a loss as to how i'm going to get it off the paper if still wet from PG, which to my understanding wont evaporate/non-volatile.. as it probably wont just "slide" off even if the coffee filter completely dries out). Also have quite a bit (probably a majority) of the nifoxipam in the original dish i had it in before filtering b/c the cold had "settled" it to the bottom. but its still wet, i suspect it wont fully dry out either due to PG though (again 25mL was added).

The leftover water+pg is still yellow so i put it in the fridge for another filtration.

You'd have to unfortunately explain what you're saying in much more layman's terms. I am by no means a chemist.. barely passed in highschool. I understand pharmacology & biology much better. But even then, its been 12 years... a lot of that time wasted by opioid & benzodiazepine abuse.. lol

 

[Solipsis]

My suggestion is to take all your nifox containing sludge and wet stuff, put it in a proper glass container..
Add a nonpolar solvent such as hexane or naphtha, which are short chain oil fractions.. Available at hardware stores and called white spirit or coleman fuel..
Optionally add a little sodium bicarb
You should get 2 phases: the nonpolar floating on top of the polar probably, idk the density difference. The polar phase = water and PG.
Might want to add some water so that your amount of PG with nifox isnt too small to work with, should be a visible amount of liquid..
Then close the container with the liquids and swirl it hard enough so that the nifox is shaken around. But dont be too spastic or you get improper separation of the solvents.. and let the evaping solvent out every now and then it builds pressure.
Let it settle well and separate the layers. Repeat if necessary. 3x is often the magic number in chemistry.

Then find a way to collect the nonpolar solution that should have taken up (dissolved) the nifox..
Look up how separating funnels work, and how a turkey baster can also work to suck up a soln.
I get that you dont have a lab so get creative and mimic ppl who do dxm or dmt teks.. Google that

Evap away the solvent and yield nifox

Weigh ans dissolve in measured volume of ethanol.

Read this slowly and carefully.. Only attempt if you understand and follow and, no offense, arent too lazy to do the homework to get it done..

And await peer review of my suggestion

Forget the dmso imo.. Seems silly

 

[belligerent drunk]

Hexane/petroleum ether will definitely be on top, they have very low density. Like Solipsis said, definitely have a proper volume of liquid to work with, anything less than 20-30ml will most likely mean you'll lose too much. So add water to the water/PG if needed. I'd actually like to add something about the shaking - the harder you shake, the better the partition equilibrium is achieved, meaning better extraction; the danger is the formation of a stable emulsion. You definitely have to wait enough so that the layers are separated. If you have about 30-40 ml of the water/PG phase, then do 3 extractions like Solipsis suggested, with about 10 ml of your non-polar solvent. You can use more, but it's more efficient to do more extractions with smaller volumes, than the same total volume with fewer extractions - will ease the evaporation stage if you have smaller volume.

What about the ethanol though? Obviously I don't have the solubility table for nifox in different solvents in my head, but wouldn't ethanol also be too polar for this if propylene glycol didn't work? I understand that the choice of solvents is limited to what is drinkable. In that case maybe try isopropanol instead? I have never tried drinking acetone, but that could work. DMSO is famous for being the go-to if nothing else works for dissolving, so if you know how to ingest that then it should work. Then again if ethanol has worked with other benzos for you, Solipsis, I don't really see why it shouldn't work with this.

Definitely think this through and maybe watch a guide or two. It's not hard at all once you know what you're doing, even though at first it may seem complex. Also I didn't read through the whole thread, but I'll trust Solipsis on assessing the situation correctly.