• H&R Moderators: streaM Freak

Is meat inherently unhealthy?

Very black-and-white view, but anyway, i don't really understand what you take issue with in regard to sixbuckets' posts.
Not everything is as cut and dried as 'good' and 'bad'.
Unless you're - say - vegan. In which case i'd say that's your ethical perspective, so that's fine (for you).

But i don't think anyone likes having "right" and "wrongs" of eating dictated to them.
I don't eat much junk food (and haven't eaten meat for 15 years) but i know it isn't "wrong" or "bad" to do either. I just choose not to.

The issue is they dont seem to think there are bad diets or bad food.
There is no way around that. Just because you can eat a certain thing that is unhealthy based on its contents doesnt stop it from being bad

Just because you can use a diet that is unhealthy for you doesnt mean its ok

Food is very black and white, i dont know why they and now you are try to complicate something so simple. There is good food and bad food based on its nutritional value and its ingredients
 
Homo sapiens and all our direct ancestors evolved whilst partaking in heavily meat-inclusive diets. Even our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, regularly consume meat as one of the main constituents of their daily diet.

I shan't argue with those of the opinion that the consumption of meat is unethical. Ethics is subjective and arbitrary, and therefore cannot be proved logically and factually invalid. 'De gustibus non est disputandum', as the Romans would say (or if you prefer French to Latin, 'à chacun son goût').

But one should take care not to conflate or confuse their particular ethical sensibilities with scientific fact. Nor should one try to construe or contort real science in such a way as to make it meretriciously compatible with or corroborative to one's ethical proclivities.

Believe whatever you want. But don't distort reality and science to justify those beliefs, lest you become an ideologue.

As for the notion that meat is unhealthy (which is not proven) or at least not as healthy as non-meat foodstuff, it's not only unproven but arguably erroneous. Plants are doused with all kinds of toxic chemicals (pesticides, insecticide, herbicides (TCDD and other dioxins, for example), fungicides, etc.), which can act as endocrine disruptors, teratogens, mutagens, carcinogens, neurotoxins, and so forth.

Moreover, most plants have undergone hundreds of genetic modifications via genetic engineering (the result is typically termed 'genetically modified crops' or GMCs for short; they're sometimes also termed biotech crops).

Even for so-called "organic farmers", the seeds they purchase have almost always been genetically engineered; the "organic" plants themselves will also usually be inadvertently contaminated with synthetic herbicides and other chemicals due to herbicide volatilization and pervasive soil and water contamination.

So, meat is obviously less deleterious than plants insofar as the potentials for toxicity and pernicious medical effects are to be concerned. Meat is only contaminated indirectly as a result of animals eating contaminated crops.

Nothing has resulted in quite as much rampant pollution and excessive man-made environmental degradation as has agribusiness.

So, to reiterate: believe what you want to believe. But this dernier cri phytophilia cannot be justified by appealing to:

A.) evolutionary biology, anthropology,
and other evidence-based sciences, especially life sciences: since it's an incontrovertible scientific truism that humans evolved as meat eaters in much the same way as our ancestors did over the course of millions of years;

B.) health effects, nutritional value, and medical benefits: since these are all debatable;

C.) human nature: as we all know from history that human nature includes the eating of meat and whether one likes it or not or thinks it's unethical it remains an arrant fact. Most of what we know as human nature is arguably unethical to modern people as shown through the study of cultural universals and anthropology and thymology (rape, incest, infanticide, murder, pedophilia, torture, war, misogyny, pederastry, polygamy, adultery, thievery, racism, slavery, and so on), but something can be unethical and a fact of life at the same time;

D.) concern for animal welfare: since animals have never endured as much suffering as they have since the dawn of the Agricultural Revolution as a direct result of agriculture itself;

E.) economics: since meat is both cheaper to procure (a kg of beef is about as expensive as a kg of "organic" produce, yet cows are lower maintenance than a hectare of crops) and much easier for impoverished people to live off (a single adult cow could feed a family of five for a month or longer, whereas a month's worth of crops requires several hectares of land, fences and other protection from wildlife and pests, the right weather conditions or season, harvesting supplies, preparation, and so forth. Many more resources are necessitated than those needed to raise a calf into adulthood. Not to mention the inordinate water consumption of plants, which is considerable in developing countries where potable water is a scarce and valuable commodity).

So, in summary, there seems an exceptional dearth of both philosophical and scientific justification for the notion that meat is unethical and should be uneaten or at most consumed in strict moderation and with caution. Indeed, in the case of modern, Western vegetarianism and veganism, it seems the popular appeal preceded the rationale.

The consequence appears to be a clumsily coordinated and utterly unavailing endeavor to validate a foregone conclusion. The opinion should be informed by evidence, rather than having the evidence inspired by opinion. Vegetarians are in vogue, and herbivores are hip. But they're still demonstrably full of shit if they try to justify their choices by any means outside mere personal preference or ethical vagaries.

If anybody has an issue with the logic I've used and the facts I've employed in support of this comment, I'd enjoy hearing them. But, please, spare me the deontological drivel, utilitarian malarkey, and consequentialist claptrap; I don't argue over ethics, nor do I consider ethical objections to be valid arguments.
 
I cant explain to you have ridiculous you sound. Im not having comprehension problem at all. Nutrition is based on fact and science. Morals have nothing to do with nutrition, nothing at all

Ikr? I'm still trying to figure out how morals came into the equation of determining whether food is nutritious or not. It's one thing if someone wants to make a moral argument in regards to eating meat or not but that's not what I'm getting. What a clusterfuck.
 
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there are healthy ways to be vegan and healthy ways to eat meat. My family practices a paleo lifestyle and are naturally very active based on the professions that we follow. I can say that I'm one of three men in my immediate family (myself, brother, father) and i'm the only one that is healthy physically. My brother and I are the same height but he out weighs me by 60 lbs (170 vs 230). My dad 5'8" 235 lbs. My wife and I went vegan in 2010 for about a year and i lost some weight (about 20 lbs). When we switched to paleo in 2011 i went from 170 to 162 in 5 days (not exaggerating). My work out times got faster, i got stronger, and leaner. I got all the way down to 158 lbs and was stronger and faster than ever in my life. Last time i weighed that i was 14 and fighting at the junior olympics (kickboxing). It could be argued either way, but vegans tend to eat the way they do because of animal rights more than because of it being healthier. Our ancestors had to live by a simple rule...kill it, grow it, eat it. They did that because it was necessary and they didn't have other options. Our issues aren't because of the food we eat. It's because we eat 'food-like' things...
 
Short and simplified answer: yes
More complex answer, depends. Eating a vegan diet in a concious and wholesome way is always going to be better I believe. Healthy is not a position but a scale, but yeah..
 
Holy jesus shithat when does this thread come to a point of "agree to disagree"?

Seriously man wow. It's almost like I wish somebody was trolling

You guys are just arguing definitions. Good food, bad food vs less healthy food, more healthy food..... Diet vs dietary intake. Same fucking thing on all accounts. Why can't people admit they may have misunderstood, or are used to different language, though we are all talking thr same thing

P.s. though it is incredibly rare, there are cases where doctors will recommend milkshakes, Big Macs, etc. 99.9% of the time these have are negative in a diet, but when someone needs the most possible calories in the most pleasant, densest form, that's the way to go.
 
P.s. though it is incredibly rare, there are cases where doctors will recommend milkshakes, Big Macs, etc. 99.9% of the time these have are negative in a diet, but when someone needs the most possible calories in the most pleasant, densest form, that's the way to go.
Pretty much what sixbuckets was saying all along, right? :)
 
An damn that's a goof. My bad.... I get bored and scroll through old threads and I forget how quick they get old.

I do find the meat discussion very interesting though... As a vegetarian I am surprisingly open minded about the fact that it could possibly be less than perfect health wise. Never know though
 
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