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The Big and Senseless Mass Shooting Thread

K
JessFR said:
Can any of you guys really, without changing the subject or rephrasing the question, explain to me how you can possibly defend women not being able to own even pepper spray? Can you tell me you really support that?

I am becoming less and less interested in your strawmanning and constant redirection of point. You don't try to address my point, you just make another point for me to respond too, and then make another one when I do, ignoring the context and point I'm trying to make. I'm not interested in continuing this fruitless verbal inertia indefinitely.
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My teenage daughter is a second dan black belt. In fact last night she just completed a progressive grading which included testing her ability to break wrists and arms using locks as well as weapons proficiency using num chucks and knives. I'm not ashamed to admit that for 13 she could snap my wrist without a second thought. Reality is though, I can out run her knife attack wearing nothing but a good pair of walking shoes. Give her a hand gun and she'd still be able to shoot me in the back from 20m.
 
Onethousandwords I'm not sure what your point is, but for clarification my question is how can anyone defend the existence of a law preventing women from owning pepper spray.

It doesn't matter though, fuck this shit, and fuck stonehappymonday, now he's just resorting to childish bullshit. And I'm sick of it and this thread. All this thread has done is confirm again for me what I already knew. The majority of Australians don't give a shit about if laws work or not or standing up for people on principle and that I think id rather kill myself than live in this country the rest of my life should I suffer the misfortune of living a particularly long one. I knew better before I posted here and I'm an idiot for bothering.
 
Ever been in a nightclub when some idiot lets off a can of pepper spray? A weapon is a weapon, and in a civilised society there is no need to escalate conflicts with violence.

Thankfully you live in a community where rape and attacks against women is relatively rare. Like I mentioned earlier you happen to live in the seediest part of the country, yet I have never felt threatened at any time walking those same streets. I have been in cities where the threat to my life is infinitely more focused and I for one am glad Australia holds a greater value on other humans lives than what I have witnessed.
 
I'm truly surprised that some countries have banned pepper spray. Pepper spray is an effective yet harmless self-defense weapon. It works against both viscous people and viscous dogs.

On another note, the way to know the real level of danger of a city or neighborhood is to live there and walk through it every night on your way home from work or a bar. What looks safe in the day might be deadly at night. Most cities I've lived in in the USA, even in expensive neighborhoods, required me to pass through high-crime neighborhoods for my commute. Living 20 minutes from work, I never drove. I've been attacked or nearly attacked several times.

As for martial arts training, it is WAY over-rated (at least what is taught at the Westernized McDojos). Often, having a black belt builds up a dangerous sense of false confidence without having had any real world experience. Generally, a tiny martial arts expert (black belt who has the technical, theoretical knowledge) will lose a fight against somebody who is very strong unless the strong guy is totally unskilled and inexperienced. Criminals who have been fighting on the street their whole lives, even though they might not have formal training, can win fights. Highly controlled sparring in the setting of a dojo is nothing compared to a real fight. Grappling moves, holds, leg and arm breaks, WILL fail 99% of the time in the real world. For example, a tiny, inexperienced (in real world fighting) black belt throwing around fancy kicks doesn't have a chance against somebody muscular with boxing training. Worse, they often aren't trained to take punches. Their only chance would be to do a low kick, distract the boxer and RUN. Years and years (as in decades) of training with good teachers will help change this, but it takes a LONG time.
 
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Or you could live in a community that doesn't resort to violence period.

Personally the whole debate on gun violence isn't one of whether grown adults should be allowed to carry a weapon. It is more asking why America in particular wants to fall back and attack fellow humans more than any other society? It is a overall might is right mentality where people feel the need to shoot one another to settle conflict. Sometimes it's okay to accept defeat and say sorry, rather than pull out duelling pistols to decide who is right.
 
One Thousand Words said:
Or you could live in a community that doesn't resort to violence period.

Personally the whole debate on gun violence isn't one of whether grown adults should be allowed to carry a weapon. It is more asking why America in particular wants to fall back and attack fellow humans more than any other society? It is a overall might is right mentality where people feel the need to shoot one another to settle conflict. Sometimes it's okay to accept defeat and say sorry, rather than pull out duelling pistols to decide who is right.
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In America, those communities aren't often where the jobs. In many - most - cities in that country, people are violent. Because fo that alone, a lot of people feel the need to arm themselves to be safe. Those are some of the reasons I left.
 
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Non-lethal devices pose no life-threatening risk to anyone. Especially pepper spray, a temporary means of disabling an attacker in order to escape has no business being banned outright. Tasers and such on the other hand could cause some issues and misuse. It's a ridiculous law, indeed.
 
One Thousand Words said:
Or you could live in a community that doesn't resort to violence period.

Personally the whole debate on gun violence isn't one of whether grown adults should be allowed to carry a weapon. It is more asking why America in particular wants to fall back and attack fellow humans more than any other society? It is a overall might is right mentality where people feel the need to shoot one another to settle conflict. Sometimes it's okay to accept defeat and say sorry, rather than pull out duelling pistols to decide who is right.
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i think you are right. 'bowling for columbine' was as much, if not more. about american (gun) culture and gun violence as it was about guns themselves.

alasdair
 
One Thousand Words said:
Ever been in a nightclub when some idiot lets off a can of pepper spray? A weapon is a weapon, and in a civilised society there is no need to escalate conflicts with violence.
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Yeah i have, it's horrible.
You can still buy pepper spray in australia. People still carry it. But it's not an essential thing; i mean, there are basic self-defence techniques that are far more directred an effective than some spray that burns your eyes and throat.

Rather than pepper spray, I encourage women to wear a solid pair of boots or at least shoes that don't prevent free movement.
Some women wouldn't be as physically vulnerable if they weren't wearing heels and skirt that prevent running or walking away. And no; this isn't a "you were asking for it by wearing that" argument. More that women shouldn't have to feel so vulnerable to being attacked that they should have to carry a weapon.
Doc martens > pepper spray
From what i've seen, pepper spray is seems pretty easy to misdirect, and incapacitate anyone within range of the person spraying it (including the person spraying it). Maybe it's necessary in a place where people carry weapons?

There was a news story in australia recently where a woman repelled an attempted rapist by stabbing him in the face with her car keys. If you feel physically at risk, almost anything can become a weapon. Be creative, if the need arises.
The problem with carrying weapons of any sort is that they escalate situations so much that the need does arise, simply from people pulling a weapon. It's self-perpetuating, and fortunately doesnt happen very often where i live.

Personally, I've had groups of people try to mug me twice, and both times i have repelled them with words and body language alone.
I'm not a big guy, nor am i physically intimidating, but not one of them laid a finger on me.
But i haven't needed a weapon or violence to tell a couple of groups of guys (one being a group of 3, the other being a group of 5) to leave me alone (or words to that effect).
None of them pulled a weapon on me either.
Freedom (if you can handle it).
 
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