Bardeaux
Bluelight Crew
what is the donald's tax plan?
(I know I could google, but meh
)
(I know I could google, but meh
)
2016 American Presidential Campaign
- Thread starter Bardeaux
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Droppersneck
Bluelighter
Donald is going to be the next president. This presidency will show just how little power the president has. I picture major gridlock. Trump would be good in certain aspects but his plans on reforming immigration policy do not seem very plausible.
StoneHappyMonday
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 10, 2001
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- 18,084
socko
Bluelighter
It looks that way. Trump is a buffoon unfit for the job but he will win. By himself he wont have much power, but by the time he appoints his friends and family to powerful positiôns, he will have a lot of power. Many will be ashamed to admit they are american.
jammin83
Bluelighter
Please don't kill the world USA.
Stop that. We'd be making America Great Again!
But yeah, Donald in the white house...all the progress that Obama made with foreign relations would be entirely negated and then some. Scary thought. I'm all for seeing the economy get a boost, but I don't think Donald is the answer. Sadly, his supporters are thinking about their wallets.
There are a lot of candidates I don't like but I really can't stand Christie at all.
herbavore
Bluelight Crew
This is a most depressing election. The Republicans terrify me, the Democrat-that-the-press-has-already-elected disgusts me, the only voice I hear that I can stand to listen to has a snowball's chance in hell and when I send off my pathetic little donations to his campaign I class them as being in the same category as my donations to save the African elephants-fultile, but a pathetically raised fist in the face of the hurricaine. This election is the way we have been going for a long, long time but this one has undeniably arrived. Money puts the candidates in the media. The media creates slick, packaged "debates" , ridiculous red, white and blue productions that look like the Colbert Report except they are real and are plastered with actual corporate sponsors. The candidates never answer a single question. The audience is made up of their base and boos and shouts predictably instruct the zombified, shrinking audiences of actual voters on how they should react. Whoever brings up the particular fears of their base the most comes out on top. I force myself to watch and become more cynical with every scripted moment I am wasting.
I come from parents and grandparents that were moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats. Everyone paid attention, everyone debated, we argued and we listened and we decided for ourselves. My mother is a Doctor of political science and a former government bureaucrat implementing policies that affect the lives of everyone in this country. It is in my blood to be involved. But I have watched the polarization of this nation in the polarization of the following generations in families (starting with my own) and it is a depressing sight. We are a nation of self-righteous, arrogant and self-defeating people. We are as scared of each other as we are of "outsiders". We talk smugly with people that already agree with us and condemn everyone else as "idiots". We see reflected in the politicians our own need to simplify a complex world and even though we vote for the "lesser of two evils" in every single election we end up with war every time. We accept hypocrisy and corruption because we have given up. Either that or we see screaming insults at each other as giving a shit about things. Now that I've gone and depressed the hell out of myself (and everyone else) I'm just wondering if Socko would let me couch surf over there at least through November. My husband calls me a "quitter" every time I bring up abandoning america but ,seriously, trying to stay involved in this cesspool inevitably leaves you covered in your own shit just as much as the shit of everyone else.
I come from parents and grandparents that were moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats. Everyone paid attention, everyone debated, we argued and we listened and we decided for ourselves. My mother is a Doctor of political science and a former government bureaucrat implementing policies that affect the lives of everyone in this country. It is in my blood to be involved. But I have watched the polarization of this nation in the polarization of the following generations in families (starting with my own) and it is a depressing sight. We are a nation of self-righteous, arrogant and self-defeating people. We are as scared of each other as we are of "outsiders". We talk smugly with people that already agree with us and condemn everyone else as "idiots". We see reflected in the politicians our own need to simplify a complex world and even though we vote for the "lesser of two evils" in every single election we end up with war every time. We accept hypocrisy and corruption because we have given up. Either that or we see screaming insults at each other as giving a shit about things. Now that I've gone and depressed the hell out of myself (and everyone else) I'm just wondering if Socko would let me couch surf over there at least through November. My husband calls me a "quitter" every time I bring up abandoning america but ,seriously, trying to stay involved in this cesspool inevitably leaves you covered in your own shit just as much as the shit of everyone else.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
I agree with that post for the most part. Honesty the only thing that keeps me turned off by democrats is the second amendment and the over all desire to grow government.
Trumps tax plan is pretty good I just looked at it. Corporate tax rates being as high as they are is simply shooting ourselves in the foot. We push companies off shores all to recover a little extra cash from them for the inefficient government to foolishly reappropriate? All the while any person can tell you a widely accepted economic principle is that the tax is always passed on to the consumer.
Trumps tax plan is pretty good I just looked at it. Corporate tax rates being as high as they are is simply shooting ourselves in the foot. We push companies off shores all to recover a little extra cash from them for the inefficient government to foolishly reappropriate? All the while any person can tell you a widely accepted economic principle is that the tax is always passed on to the consumer.
socko
Bluelighter
That must have been interesting to grow up in a family like yours. When George the Second was elected, I lost hope itn he American political process and have felt alienated since then. It is good to be here and away from that mess. It's like a breath of fresh air not being surrounded by people who WILL vote for Trump. Sometimes it's better not to go down with the ship. Come on over.
Dropper, it would be political suicide for any Democrat to mess with the Second Amendment. It will not happen in the next election cycle, provided the President is rational. But if the next president feels like she has something to prove and has some kind of personality disorder, you should be worried. On the economy and tax policy, all of us should look at expert opinions and read the opinions of reputable economists to get an idea of which candidate's economic policy is more sound.
Dropper, it would be political suicide for any Democrat to mess with the Second Amendment. It will not happen in the next election cycle, provided the President is rational. But if the next president feels like she has something to prove and has some kind of personality disorder, you should be worried. On the economy and tax policy, all of us should look at expert opinions and read the opinions of reputable economists to get an idea of which candidate's economic policy is more sound.
This is a most depressing election. The Republicans terrify me, the Democrat-that-the-press-has-already-elected disgusts me, the only voice I hear that I can stand to listen to has a snowball's chance in hell and when I send off my pathetic little donations to his campaign I class them as being in the same category as my donations to save the African elephants-fultile, but a pathetically raised fist in the face of the hurricaine. This election is the way we have been going for a long, long time but this one has undeniably arrived. Money puts the candidates in the media. The media creates slick, packaged "debates" , ridiculous red, white and blue productions that look like the Colbert Report except they are real and are plastered with actual corporate sponsors. The candidates never answer a single question. The audience is made up of their base and boos and shouts predictably instruct the zombified, shrinking audiences of actual voters on how they should react. Whoever brings up the particular fears of their base the most comes out on top. I force myself to watch and become more cynical with every scripted moment I am wasting.
I come from parents and grandparents that were moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats. Everyone paid attention, everyone debated, we argued and we listened and we decided for ourselves. My mother is a Doctor of political science and a former government bureaucrat implementing policies that affect the lives of everyone in this country. It is in my blood to be involved. But I have watched the polarization of this nation in the polarization of the following generations in families (starting with my own) and it is a depressing sight. We are a nation of self-righteous, arrogant and self-defeating people. We are as scared of each other as we are of "outsiders". We talk smugly with people that already agree with us and condemn everyone else as "idiots". We see reflected in the politicians our own need to simplify a complex world and even though we vote for the "lesser of two evils" in every single election we end up with war every time. We accept hypocrisy and corruption because we have given up. Either that or we see screaming insults at each other as giving a shit about things. Now that I've gone and depressed the hell out of myself (and everyone else) I'm just wondering if Socko would let me couch surf over there at least through November. My husband calls me a "quitter" every time I bring up abandoning america but ,seriously, trying to stay involved in this cesspool inevitably leaves you covered in your own shit just as much as the shit of everyone else.
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claire22
Bluelighter
No, the complete obsession with it is. The problem is the GIGANTIC DEBT to the Chinese... The country is prosperous - money does not solve issues alone. What you do w it is. It's s means to an end, not the end.
This is a most depressing election. The Republicans terrify me, the Democrat-that-the-press-has-already-elected disgusts me, the only voice I hear that I can stand to listen to has a snowball's chance in hell and when I send off my pathetic little donations to his campaign I class them as being in the same category as my donations to save the African elephants-fultile, but a pathetically raised fist in the face of the hurricaine. This election is the way we have been going for a long, long time but this one has undeniably arrived. Money puts the candidates in the media. The media creates slick, packaged "debates" , ridiculous red, white and blue productions that look like the Colbert Report except they are real and are plastered with actual corporate sponsors. The candidates never answer a single question. The audience is made up of their base and boos and shouts predictably instruct the zombified, shrinking audiences of actual voters on how they should react. Whoever brings up the particular fears of their base the most comes out on top. I force myself to watch and become more cynical with every scripted moment I am wasting.
I come from parents and grandparents that were moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats. Everyone paid attention, everyone debated, we argued and we listened and we decided for ourselves. My mother is a Doctor of political science and a former government bureaucrat implementing policies that affect the lives of everyone in this country. It is in my blood to be involved. But I have watched the polarization of this nation in the polarization of the following generations in families (starting with my own) and it is a depressing sight. We are a nation of self-righteous, arrogant and self-defeating people. We are as scared of each other as we are of "outsiders". We talk smugly with people that already agree with us and condemn everyone else as "idiots". We see reflected in the politicians our own need to simplify a complex world and even though we vote for the "lesser of two evils" in every single election we end up with war every time. We accept hypocrisy and corruption because we have given up. Either that or we see screaming insults at each other as giving a shit about things. Now that I've gone and depressed the hell out of myself (and everyone else) I'm just wondering if Socko would let me couch surf over there at least through November. My husband calls me a "quitter" every time I bring up abandoning america but ,seriously, trying to stay involved in this cesspool inevitably leaves you covered in your own shit just as much as the shit of everyone else.
Brilliant post; extremely insightful as always, herbie.
Australia is much the same. I have glimmers of hope from time to time (we are not as populous or diverse a nation as the USA), but it is hard not to get down sometimes, being one of the people who gives a damn.
claire22
Bluelighter
More of the same bs this election & worse. Good god what a field.
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
what is the donald's tax plan?
(I know I could google, but meh
The usual. Cut rates and make up lost revenue through closing loopholes. The same BS plan we've heard time and again.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
But that cut to the corporate tax rate makes so much sense doe. I want all the businesses that leave to stay. The 20% extra the government get just goes to the government to waste as they see fit. The tax is always passed onto the consumer anyway well depending on the elasticity of demand for said product, but in general..
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
For once we agree. It's all very depressing. I think of it like a roller coaster or a train wreck, there's no getting off, so just enjoy the ride. One way or another insanity, corruption, stupidity, and incompetence will be the rule not the exception. Unlike a lot of people though, I don't think the primary problem is sponsors, lobbyists, big corporations etc. Not that they aren't a big part of perpetuating the problem. But I still ultimately lay the blame on the people. One could argue no matter what the people do the status quo would find a way to win, but we don't know that for sure because the public doesn't try in the first place. Humans are on average just very very bad at making good, rational, intelligent evaluations and decisions. And it's a democratic system. So the average decides the outcome.
Just my opinion, ultimately whatever you think the cause is or the blame lies the problem remains the same.
It's sad to say but I think believing the glimmers of hope prove to be naive more and more every election. I'm not an obama fan (I'm not a fan of republicans either), but I feel really bad for the people who voted him in expecting so much more than they got. In hindsight it seems so obvious, but we so badly want to believe one day someone will come in with real vision and the determination to fix this mess, whatever your own opinion of what the mess actually is may be.
socko
Bluelighter
I think the people are the status quo. Changing the status quo means changing the people. At least change the people who vote. Activities like driving a car, motorcycle, flying a plane, carrying a concealed weapon can hurt a lot people when the operator is untrained, incompetent, and lacks the required knowledge, and therefore a license is needed to do it legally. Uninformed voters are just as much a menace to society as the above activities. Too much is at stake: non-stop war, economic collapse, increasing socioeconomic disparity, environmental degradation, prosperity, upward mobility etc. The USA no longer has as good a quality of life as it used to. Many other developed countries are doing better.
I suggest requiring a license to vote. It would be free, of course, but it would require some basic knowledge of economics, earth science, sociology, chemistry especially relating to climate science, politics, culture, history, world politics, business, industry, agriculture, technology, etc. In simpler times, the public education system covered it, but the world has moved on. Public education has not been able to keep up. Most people lack the initiative to keep up, hence people often being out of touch (being loyal to one party or the other no_matter_what).
I suggest requiring a license to vote. It would be free, of course, but it would require some basic knowledge of economics, earth science, sociology, chemistry especially relating to climate science, politics, culture, history, world politics, business, industry, agriculture, technology, etc. In simpler times, the public education system covered it, but the world has moved on. Public education has not been able to keep up. Most people lack the initiative to keep up, hence people often being out of touch (being loyal to one party or the other no_matter_what).
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JessFR
Bluelight Crew
I would much prefer fixing education than having voting licences. I don't deny the problems, but it just seems both wrong, and potentially very dangerous to have voting licences. We've seen how tests can be twisted to benefit specific groups, the IQ test is one example of one done probably by accident. There's enough problems with potential electoral fraud without giving them that kinda weapon.
socko
Bluelighter
I agree with fixing the educational system. Licensing would be severe, but so much is at stake that affects everyone. I don't know what else would wake people up.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
Oh man all these democrats jumping in on the gun debate thinking this is going to help get them voters when all they are doing is appropriating the already democrat voters among each other. Mean while pushing away most in droves. I don't know what it would take to get people into the gun control camp, but it is certainly more than a few school shootings IMO. You would almost have to change middle American culture in a significant way in order to ban sports rifles and put in place other oppressive measures to pass.
cashfl0w_d0nkey
Bluelight Crew
^ My initial reaction to your post was incredibility. Upon thinking about it more, and seeing that Hillary is announcing gun control policy initiatives in New Hampshire today, I think you could be right in terms of the scope of this impact. New Hampshire is an important swing state that has liberal gun control laws and among the lowest rate of gun crime in New England. I could see this going badly for her.
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