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And we're off. Decided it has to be done; it's already heating up quickly here and I don't really wanna be running tren when we're hovering around 30-35deg days. Might get uncomfortable haha. Going with a shorter harder blast - 490mg Tren A and 260mg Test E (already cruising) per week, EOD injections 140mg and 75mg respectively.

Grym - I'm pretty sure you've weighed in on this previously, but what're your thoughts on running caber alongside tren? I already know popular opinion, as well as GF's haha
 
trozzle said:
And we're off. Decided it has to be done; it's already heating up quickly here and I don't really wanna be running tren when we're hovering around 30-35deg days. Might get uncomfortable haha. Going with a shorter harder blast - 490mg Tren A and 260mg Test E (already cruising) per week, EOD injections 140mg and 75mg respectively.

Grym - I'm pretty sure you've weighed in on this previously, but what're your thoughts on running caber alongside tren? I already know popular opinion, as well as GF's haha
Click to expand...

Why would you...?
 
For me I say don't run it unless you actually need it. My last tren run, was low test and high tren. Low test as in 150/week. Lump in left nipple flared up so I took 0.5mg caber twice weekly. Lump went away. I had just come off a run with ghrp+ghrh so I may have had leftover elevated prolactin from those that progressed further
 
My consideration for the use of prolactin was solely based on my observations with my bloodwork regarding my estradiol. Even though I don't show a lot of the typical physical manifestations of elevated E2, I have still found my E2 levels to rise pretty drastically unless a pretty adequate dosage of AI is used. Prolactin is known to elevate E2 I believe. I could be completely wrong and I got it backwards. I just know prolactin in elevated concentrations can eventually activate our (us bros) mammary glands.

I also firmly believe the highly carcinogenic nature of endogenous oestrogens.
 
Which correlates with my experience - Tren somehow indirectly causes gyno flare up. I've run 350mg Test with no AI for weeks and weeks - no puffy nips. Drop test back to 175mg and chuck in 350mg of Tren - lo and behold, itchy puffy nips. Running exemestane 12.5mg EOD made no difference.
 
trozzle said:
Which correlates with my experience - Tren somehow indirectly causes gyno flare up. I've run 350mg Test with no AI for weeks and weeks - no puffy nips. Drop test back to 175mg and chuck in 350mg of Tren - lo and behold, itchy puffy nips. Running exemestane 12.5mg EOD made no difference.
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Yup I've seen posts throughout the internet incorrectly labeling the gynocomastia development on tren as "prolactin-induced gynocomastia."

I'm not 100% proficient on this mechanism of tren, but this study may offer some insight? I'd love to hear some of our more knowledgeable members interpretations..http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6695548
 
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Interesting study. Though it fails to address 19nors and prolactin. This could mean that prolactin issues from aromatization works via different mechanism in comparison to what trozzle and I experienced as this would mean we'd have elevated prolactin strictly from test. Also he used an ai to reduce aromatase activity which should have reduced his gyno symptoms.
 
Serotonin101 said:
Interesting study. Though it fails to address 19nors and prolactin. This could mean that prolactin issues from aromatization works via different mechanism in comparison to what trozzle and I experienced as this would mean we'd have elevated prolactin strictly from test. Also he used an ai to reduce aromatase activity which should have reduced his gyno symptoms.
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That was my thought. Considering AAS use causes HPTA dysfunction.
 
trozzle said:
Which correlates with my experience - Tren somehow indirectly causes gyno flare up. I've run 350mg Test with no AI for weeks and weeks - no puffy nips. Drop test back to 175mg and chuck in 350mg of Tren - lo and behold, itchy puffy nips. Running exemestane 12.5mg EOD made no difference.
Click to expand...

Its been hypothesised reducing testosterone quickly might create an high oestradiol environment and hence: low test:high E2 ratio which can in some people be responsible for symptoms of gynecomastia....

Although in your case Test at 350mg was hardly high, plus you ran an AI which should have controlled E2..

Isn't high prolactin reputed to be modulated by estrogen, not the other way round..

Was your Tren really nandrolone, was your AI bunk, are you overly sensitive to E2..?

There seem to be too many anecdotal reports of gyno whilst using tren to just state manage E2, you manage gyno.. I don't know..??
 
Genetic Freak said:
Its been hypothesised reducing testosterone quickly might create an high oestradiol environment and hence: low test:high E2 ratio which can in some people be responsible for symptoms of gynecomastia....

Although in your case Test at 350mg was hardly high, plus you ran an AI which should have controlled E2..

Isn't high prolactin reputed to be modulated by estrogen, not the other way round..

Was your Tren really nandrolone, was your AI bunk, are you overly sensitive to E2..?

There seem to be too many anecdotal reports of gyno whilst using tren to just state manage E2, you manage gyno.. I don't know..??
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Sorry GF I'll clarify scenarios:

******************************************
350mg test with NO AI = ZERO gyno symptoms, regardless of duration.

175mg test and 350mg tren = puffy and itchy nipples past 4 weeks, with or without the added or ongoing use of an AI (in my case exemestane, 12.5mg EOD. Even raised it to 25mg EOD after the first signs of gyno to no avail).

******************************************

So LOW test with the addition of Tren gave symptoms that didn't fade with the addition of an AI nor an increase of the AI dosage. HIGH test by itself gave no obvious symptoms.

Given my source for all my UGL gear, I'm as close to being certain it's legitimate as one can get without being the 'cook' themselves haha. My AI was sourced from a 100% legitimate online pharmaceutical company (and given Australia's import laws on certain prescription meds, it comes through customs fine lol).

And your last line is the main reason I brought it up once more - I absolutely trust your knowledge of these mechanisms above almost anyone else I know, yet my experiences (without supporting bloodwork, mind you) tell a different story. It's annoying when something happens that by our current understanding of how this shit works shouldn't happen :(
 
Alright this may be a complete shot in the dark on a possible reasoning so please keep your badgering of my idiotic remarks to a minimum. :) I have very sensitive feelings!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25461682 Tren's proposed neurotoxicity and eventual neurodegeneration related to amyloid beta (Aβ)-Thanks Pharmbiak!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2153437/ Dopamine's alteration mediated by amyloid activation (possibility in contributor to pathogenesis of neurodegenerative disease e.g Alzheimer’s disease)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11739329 Dopamine's possibility as a prolactin inhibitor

I'm sure you can make out my connection.

Just for more input...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7449733 Role of estrogen in dopaminergic control of prolactin secretion
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7428709 Effects of Estradiol (E2) on prolactin and growth hormone secretion
 
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Ah, I've written about this before too many times.

In essence, there are lots of hormones involved in gyno, that has never been in question. However oestrogen was always assumed to be something of a master switch in the gyno cascade (in the bodybuilding world at least).

That may or may not be entirely true, but in the real world completely suppressing Oestrogen is neither desirable (indeed self-defeating) and may in fact be impossible when taking exogenous AAS. Especially when we consider that - counter-intuitively - even non-aromatisable AAS have been found to elevate local aromatase activity and oestrogen.

Thus anything that helps interrupt the gyno cascade should be considered a potential option once you've exhausted the simple ones. But you'd never simply take something to suppress prolactin (and thus typically GH as well) unless you'd already proven you have a problem that it helps.
 
In a moment of clarity experienced between deep, DEEP breathing on my first lunchtime ride around the lake in a very long time, is that Tren makes this shit fucking suck twice as bad, and I need clen.

13.1km in 30deg C temps. I'm stuffed.
 
I just started on my tren 2 weeks ago, I got the burn in the lounges bad this past week, what is that from? It hasnt happened to me in a long time

I went 6 weeks running on 125mg test e and dropped about 30lbs, now its tren time!
 
You talking about the immediate post-injection stinging all over the fucking place, including lungs causing coughing fits? Dunno what it is in a typical tren solution, but something in there causes this horrid reaction when it gets into your blood stream. I used to get it sooooo fkn often when pinning calves...around 10 seconds after removing the needle, my face, backs of hands, scalp, and inside mouth start burning, and my chest feels like someone just punched me. Shit sucks.
 
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