Mental Health Coming off Invega Sustenna (paliperidone)

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^ Neurotoxic would be a more specific word. We know many drugs such as Amphetamines, Alcohol, Meperidine/Pethidine aka Demerol and maybe Cocaine as a few examples are neurotoxic. However there is alot of dispute as to whether say NMDA antagonists as one example cause much if any neurotoxicity though with Ketamine atleast acute or occasional use does not seem to cause neurotoxicity while long term heavy use may cause some neurotoxicity. We know these drugs are also neuroprotective and have even found use in treating Alzheimer's specifically Memantine. So it's not cut and dry as they say.
 
Hey invegascrewed,

I got the shot for two months (I think they give you a starter shot, then a shot about a week after that, and from then on out give one shot per month, so three shots total).

Honestly, I didn't stop getting the shot because it dulled me. I certainly didn't like that aspect of it at all, but the main reason for me stopping it was unbearable restlessness. For whatever reason, the doctors didn't treat this side-effect. I'm not sure if they just didn't take my complaint seriously, if I was too tranquilized to appropriately express how much it was bothering me, or whatever other reason.

But it got to the point where I couldn't read a few pages in a book without tearing up as a result of the pain. It was like my body was constantly trying to burst out of my skin. I looked forward to sleep just for a temporary escape from this.

Anyway, I told the doctor after two months that I didn't need the shot. So I was put on Abilify, which concentration was increased by another medication I was on at the time. Out of all the antipsychotic medications I've taken, I would rate abilify as best preserving my personality/affect. But I wasn't on a super-high dose of abilify, so I didn't get the unbearable restlessness.

To answer your question (finally), I don't actually remember when I got back to more of my old self. It was gradual, I'm sure.

But I think it's important to add that, at least in my case, the extreme anxiety of being un-medicated was worse than the emotional dulling caused by the drug, and that goes for any antipsychotic I've been on.

It took a super-high dose of cogentin for my restlessness to abate. Thankfully, after I decided to try to get off cogentin, the resltessness was gone. It was kind of miraculous. But again I want to stress that the reason I got off of Invega in the first place was because of the restlessness, not emotional dulling.

pa,

I really think "neurotoxic" is as ambiguous as "brain damage".
 
Hey Ho Chi-Minh I can totally relate to everything you're saying. It took about six months for the akathesia to subside. The current DPDR im experiencing most likely is due to the akathesia and injection etc.

Would you say you made a full recovery from that experience? When you say gradual- how many months/years did it kind of take, if i may ask
 
Yo, well first off I thought there was a difference between restlessness and akathisia, but I may have been wrong.

I find that kind of bizarre that it took that long to go away. I guess people experience all kinds of things from different medications/drugs. It would make sense that apart from an initial spike as a result of the shot, it would exit the system pretty gradually.

My memory of that time isn't too clear. I think I blocked it out largely because I not only had very few friends (and those were mostly based on people that felt sorry for me, as opposed to a genuine reciprocal social tie) due to the extreme amount of narcissism and self-involvement that came with my disease; so not only that, but the substance reduced what worldly joy I had considerably. I think this might be something common that people go through.

The first couple months (at least) are not just uncomfortable because one has alienated others and has to face this fact and repair relationships, but also because the drug itself takes a lot of joy out of life, which functionally speaking is kind of good in that it spurs people to find enjoyment around others a lot more than previously. I mean, previously I could basically be totally content sitting in front of a computer all day. I think antipsychotics make it so being a loner isn't as enjoyable. And I mean with all this talk about brain-damage, I think it's pretty clear that the brain doesn't grow or maintain itself nearly as well if one is socially deprived.

I still take psych. meds. I guess the difference is that I did what the doctors told me to do, and as a result am more integrated/happy. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I think it's worth considering. These aren't posted in any particular order, but some were necessary to implement before I could start others.

1. I took the meds
2. I gave each antipyschotic med at least two months before switching
3. I stopped using all recreational substances
4. I engaged in intensive therapy
5. I got to know myself enough (through 1-4) that I figured out what worked for my with respect to dealing with residual symptoms
6. I trusted those on the outside to give me an idea of how I was doing, and took their opinions to heart
7. I became brutally honest with my healthcare providers
8. I made (and still make) it a goal to stretch my comfort zone enough so that I grow, but not so much that I traumatize myself
9. I reached out to people who I used to be better friends with, and didn't take their defensiveness personally

And I'm sure there are others...

I wish I could give you a number, man, but I can't. Everyone is different. I can say though that therapy and socialization are key if you want to feel connected with people and invigorated/substantiated in this life. I can tell you that it's difficult. Getting better is never easy. It will challenge you at your very core. And I guess (in a brutal, if realistic sense) this separates the weak from the strong. I also think that, while it sounds like Invega didn't work well for you, you should consider that medication is meant to accelerate your development, and that it may be hasty to write off all medications because you had a bad experience with Invega.

So true recovery from most things takes time. It involves dedication to yourself, even if it doesn't feel that way in the moment. Worrying about your state of mind in the present, though, will not bode well for that of the future. Start to develop healthy habits, and you have a better chance at feeling the way you want to in the coming months/years. Hope this helped.
 
Yo, well first off I thought there was a difference between restlessness and akathisia, but I may have been wrong.

I find that kind of bizarre that it took that long to go away. I guess people experience all kinds of things from different medications/drugs. It would make sense that apart from an initial spike as a result of the shot, it would exit the system pretty gradually.

My memory of that time isn't too clear. I think I blocked it out largely because I not only had very few friends (and those were mostly based on people that felt sorry for me, as opposed to a genuine reciprocal social tie) due to the extreme amount of narcissism and self-involvement that came with my disease; so not only that, but the substance reduced what worldly joy I had considerably. I think this might be something common that people go through.

The first couple months (at least) are not just uncomfortable because one has alienated others and has to face this fact and repair relationships, but also because the drug itself takes a lot of joy out of life, which functionally speaking is kind of good in that it spurs people to find enjoyment around others a lot more than previously. I mean, previously I could basically be totally content sitting in front of a computer all day. I think antipsychotics make it so being a loner isn't as enjoyable. And I mean with all this talk about brain-damage, I think it's pretty clear that the brain doesn't grow or maintain itself nearly as well if one is socially deprived.

I still take psych. meds. I guess the difference is that I did what the doctors told me to do, and as a result am more integrated/happy. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I think it's worth considering. These aren't posted in any particular order, but some were necessary to implement before I could start others.

1. I took the meds
2. I gave each antipyschotic med at least two months before switching
3. I stopped using all recreational substances
4. I engaged in intensive therapy
5. I got to know myself enough (through 1-4) that I figured out what worked for my with respect to dealing with residual symptoms
6. I trusted those on the outside to give me an idea of how I was doing, and took their opinions to heart
7. I became brutally honest with my healthcare providers
8. I made (and still make) it a goal to stretch my comfort zone enough so that I grow, but not so much that I traumatize myself
9. I reached out to people who I used to be better friends with, and didn't take their defensiveness personally

And I'm sure there are others...

I wish I could give you a number, man, but I can't. Everyone is different. I can say though that therapy and socialization are key if you want to feel connected with people and invigorated/substantiated in this life. I can tell you that it's difficult. Getting better is never easy. It will challenge you at your very core. And I guess (in a brutal, if realistic sense) this separates the weak from the strong. I also think that, while it sounds like Invega didn't work well for you, you should consider that medication is meant to accelerate your development, and that it may be hasty to write off all medications because you had a bad experience with Invega.

So true recovery from most things takes time. It involves dedication to yourself, even if it doesn't feel that way in the moment. Worrying about your state of mind in the present, though, will not bode well for that of the future. Start to develop healthy habits, and you have a better chance at feeling the way you want to in the coming months/years. Hope this helped.

Nice post hochi. I can dig it. A couple things I don't entirely agree with but we're two different people with two different paths so yeah, gonna be that way. :)
 
I've only gotten Akathisia once and that was when i took Cyclobenzaprine (trade name Flexeril) while i was on Amitriptyline. That was a living hell to say the very least and although it only lasted 6 hours to this day i won't take Flexeril under any circumstances for the fear of getting that again. It figures that the one time i got it i didn't have any benzos or even Gabapentin to stop it :p . Both Risperidone and it's active metabolite Paliperidone are among the worst of the Atypicals for causing this due to their very potent D2 antagonism and lack of sedating caused by these drugs. I never got it from Risperidone even when i was taking 4mg's of it a day along with 300mg's of Quetiapine but then again maybe the Clonazepam and Gabapentin i was taking with it covered it up. I don't agree with doctors using Benzatropine to cover up Akathisia or any movement disorder unless every other anti-psychotic has been tried and found not to work as once you stop taking the anti-psychotic and the Benzatropine the symptoms you covered up can come back with interest. In fact there is some evidence to suggest that using Benzatropine or other anti-cholinergics to cover up movement disorders caused by anti-psychotics can in the long term make it worse.

I guess i have been lucky so far because the worst side effect i have experienced from any anti-psychotic was that zombie effect i got from Risperidone once i got to 2mg's+ a day. That along with how unpredictable Risperidone was in treating my bipolar was the reason i stopped taking it. Actually that was the main reason i stopped taking it as after a dose of Risperidone turned a Manic episode into a mixed state i decided that it was far too risky for me to take it anymore. Mixed states are truly psychological torture of the worst kind.

I can't say Risperidone or any other atypical or typical anti-psychotic made my DP/DR and brain fog worse or better as both my DP/DR and brain fog went away some time before i got treatment for my Bipolar disorder. The only drug that seems to make the brain fog come back is Alcohol which is probably the worst drug these days for fucking with my head.
 
Ho Chi Minh, did you get the experience of not being able to enjoy environments, like nice beaches, forests etc. - environmental anhedonia? did it come back - are you able to enjoy now most of the things you used to enjoy

im not sure if it's dpdr or invega - but for a while it was hard to even register music
 
I'm pretty sure I did, yeah.

Actually I recently reduced a medicine I was put on (not by too much though), and I definitely have a greater appreciation for nature. The sun just felt really good for whatever reason.

I'm not medication-free though. I enjoy things that I used to enjoy, but of course it's not exactly the same. For good or bad, I've largely gotten used to it.
 
i just don't get how most if not all of the physical effects had already gone away - like parkinsonism, not being able to move my fingers etc. - and yet the cognitive issues, not being able to plan, feeling disconnected, lack of ability to have pleasure, to feel, lack of motivation etc. still linger

also facial muscles still feel stiff -

why is that
 
Hey invegascrewed. I had stiff muscles from zyprexa withdrawal for a long time that has just recently subsided. Incredibly painful for a while. I switched to seroquel last january and just gotten off of that in the past couple weeks. AP free at last but I digress. It took me until a few weeks ago to be where I am at now. It waxed and waned for a while. Got worse, had some windows, got worse again. I feel like myself again, aside from some physical problems I am still having, throughout the whole thing I got bits and pieces of my personality back, including the undesirable parts.

I doubted that I would get better for a while, but I have. I am getting better and I am confident I will make a full recovery now. I began tapering over a year ago but went way too fast. Totally disassembled my mind in ways that I didn't think were possible. I think it takes at least a year for most people to notice a major improvement. Others noticed improvement before that with me, but it just takes a while. The important thing is to not panic and find something to occupy your time. BL did that for me, but I think I have a BL addiction now. lol. You will get better, it kind of seems like to me, that the people in this thread disappear once they get back to normal and there a lot less regulars in this thread than in months past. You may not forget it, but you will get over it. Hang in there, you will get better.
 
i just don't get how most if not all of the physical effects had already gone away - like parkinsonism, not being able to move my fingers etc. - and yet the cognitive issues, not being able to plan, feeling disconnected, lack of ability to have pleasure, to feel, lack of motivation etc. still linger

also facial muscles still feel stiff -

why is that

Well i would expect the mental effects to linger around abit longer atleast then the physical symptoms. EPS can effect the facial muscles and that's usually a sign to get the hell off that medication ASAP unless there is no other option. Id say if that doesn't go away going back to your doctor would be a good idea.

Hey invegascrewed. I had stiff muscles from zyprexa withdrawal for a long time that has just recently subsided. Incredibly painful for a while. I switched to seroquel last january and just gotten off of that in the past couple weeks. AP free at last but I digress. It took me until a few weeks ago to be where I am at now. It waxed and waned for a while. Got worse, had some windows, got worse again. I feel like myself again, aside from some physical problems I am still having, throughout the whole thing I got bits and pieces of my personality back, including the undesirable parts.

What dose of Zyprexa where you on? I have had to take up to 20mg's of it for a manic episode and i can honestly say that besides some dry mouth all kit ever did was make me feel normal. Now my friend who was put on 40mg's of it a night for fucking insomnia which is twice the max recommended dose for Bipolar and Schizophrenia got TD which went away as soon as she stopped it and Prolonged QT which has not gone away. As with anything else it's a matter of dose really and if it's the right med for you. I prefer Zyprexa over any other anti-psychotic due to the fact that it does wonders for Mania, mixed states and also helps depression. I also don't get very much in the way of drowsiness and i don't get the zombie feeling i get with Risperidone either. I currently take Quetiapine when i need to and although it works okay Olanzapine works better but i would have to pay atleast $50 out of pocket for that.
 
Just a quick update ... new job is going well but my axiety is at an all time high... im taking Buspar for it but i dont really notice a change.... i also dont smoke weed on workdays.. maybe its because im not sure if i am returning to my old self.. everything seems foreign. I cant rule out the possibility of paranioa from weed although i dont really get paranoid from weed unless i smoke a very very large amount and in an envoirnment thats foreign.
 
What dose of Zyprexa where you on? I have had to take up to 20mg's of it for a manic episode and i can honestly say that besides some dry mouth all kit ever did was make me feel normal. Now my friend who was put on 40mg's of it a night for fucking insomnia which is twice the max recommended dose for Bipolar and Schizophrenia got TD which went away as soon as she stopped it and Prolonged QT which has not gone away. As with anything else it's a matter of dose really and if it's the right med for you. I prefer Zyprexa over any other anti-psychotic due to the fact that it does wonders for Mania, mixed states and also helps depression. I also don't get very much in the way of drowsiness and i don't get the zombie feeling i get with Risperidone either. I currently take Quetiapine when i need to and although it works okay Olanzapine works better but i would have to pay atleast $50 out of pocket for that.

I started on 5 mg went up to 20 mg for BP II. I was on it for about four years. I was in a super shitty life situation, had not control over my meds and was forced to take them. I kept telling them I was fine and my depression was situational but they kept drugging me to the gills. I was on like 7 meds at one point. Ridiculous. I was down to vyvanse, gabapentin, and zyprexa. I switched to seroquel in Jan and have recently gotten off of that. No withdrawal really, not even itching so far. Some insomnia, but no big deal. Only med take now is gabapentin but will get off of that eventually too but need a break from withdrawing for a while. Vyvanse was cake to quit for me.

Honestly, the zyprexa was the only thing that ever helped me much out of everything. I didn't get many side effects for a while but then it all kind of changed and I realized how much it was effecting me. Total cog-fog, balance problems, just not right all around and my depression came back with a vengeance. I think its a great AP. I didn't even gain that much weight on it. I'm 6 feet tall and I averaged about 190 on it. Since dropping it, I am down to about 170 lbs but should put some on soon. I have been pretty manic for a while and still am having issues from the withdrawal from it. That's my main issue with it. I think my experience coming off of it, was somewhat atypical, but there are plenty of folks that have a hard time with it. I have been in withdrawal for about a year now and still having issues but I am light years ahead of where I was. I basically destabilized my entire nervous system from stopping it too quickly. I still have a weird burning sensation throughout my body, similar to nerve damage. Hot as fuck all of the time (but I live in FL which doesn't help), sweating, mania, yada yada. Totally fucked me off and it has been so bad mainly because it has been so long lasting. Benzos and bupe may have been more intense at times (maybe) but the sheer duration has been a mind-fuck. It was like a trip went bad and then some. Prob can't even enjoy psychs anymore because it feels too similar to the madness I was experiencing.

I think zyprexa is good shit and it worked for me for a while, but I wouldn't take it everyday ever again. For me, I didn't notice much of a difference between 10 mg and 20 mg. I'll keep some around for emergencies but never daily again man. lol. Do you not have good RX in canada? I can get my script for about 10 bucks for the stuff here since it went generic and that was the 20 mg pills. I don't have insurance either just use the goodrx discount. Normally it would be maybe 40 or 50 bucks.
 
Just a quick update ... new job is going well but my axiety is at an all time high... im taking Buspar for it but i dont really notice a change.... i also dont smoke weed on workdays.. maybe its because im not sure if i am returning to my old self.. everything seems foreign. I cant rule out the possibility of paranioa from weed although i dont really get paranoid from weed unless i smoke a very very large amount and in an envoirnment thats foreign.

hey Symbolicone09 sorry to hear of the high anxiety - it does get better if you naturally let it be, heard buspar actually makes things worse. Did you experience a shift in perception with invega - i mean DPDR at one point did make everything seem foreign
 
how is everyone - slight improvements - but still do feel like bits and pieces of former self - anybody else feel like their intellectual or cognitive capacities have been greatly reduced?
 
how is everyone - slight improvements - but still do feel like bits and pieces of former self - anybody else feel like their intellectual or cognitive capacities have been greatly reduced?
I've been on 25mg for two weeks. I'm already sleeping less and have more energy. Still feel mentally damaged and my cognitive function is poor and still no sex drive. How long does it take to lose weight after stopping invega as the psychiatrist has decided to cease all meds as she believes I am not mentally ill
 
There are a lot of questions in this thread about how long it will take for X, Y, Z. We just don't know. It kind of makes sense that we don't, because we don't precisely know how these substances work, and as we have seen, under what circumstances it is appropriate to prescribe them.
 
how is everyone - slight improvements - but still do feel like bits and pieces of former self - anybody else feel like their intellectual or cognitive capacities have been greatly reduced?
I felt like that... It greatly improved significantly after 7-8 months but i think part of it is your mindset and mentality because of the effects of the medication or condition... Try to actually challege your self with somthing and see if you can acomplish it... For me it was learning how to implement side chain compression into my music and also learning spanish n Japanese which im still working on.. You gotta prove to yourself that your minds still there and that was hard for me and im working on it everyday but im seeing the improvement
 
I felt like that... It greatly improved significantly after 7-8 months but i think part of it is your mindset and mentality because of the effects of the medication or condition... Try to actually challege your self with somthing and see if you can acomplish it... For me it was learning how to implement side chain compression into my music and also learning spanish n Japanese which im still working on.. You gotta prove to yourself that your minds still there and that was hard for me and im working on it everyday but im seeing the improvement

yeah that's been tough to do. I'm only doing about 10% of the activities I used to do. Piano playing seems to be ok, just less emotionally cognizant. How are you doing on registering your environment? I mean I can't really sense the beach, all the nice places that used to bring me really intense positive feelings.
 
I felt like that... It greatly improved significantly after 7-8 months but i think part of it is your mindset and mentality because of the effects of the medication or condition... Try to actually challege your self with somthing and see if you can acomplish it... For me it was learning how to implement side chain compression into my music and also learning spanish n Japanese which im still working on.. You gotta prove to yourself that your minds still there and that was hard for me and im working on it everyday but im seeing the improvement

Would you say you're close to full recovery?
 
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