How should we define sober?

[FnX]

So I'm at a dilemma here. Been without illegal drugs for a while, haven't been drinking alcohol for a while, decided I don't want to vaporize nicotine anymore, so I'm almost as clean as they come... except for my prescription of clonazepam which I take as prescribed, for anxiety. I think I must have been on it for 10 years already, with a one or two years worth of breaks somewhere along the lines there. So I am physically dependent on this medication, and there's this nagging voice in my head that as long as I keep taking it, I cannot consider myself sober. My doc tells me I should probably stay on it for life whenever I tell him I've been trying to lower the dose on my own, saying I should weigh the options: which is more harmful to me, eating a neurotoxic benzo for the rest of my life, or not taking it and suffering for debilitating anxiety and what that can do to a person. Tried pretty much every other psychiatric drug out there during my life, nothing seems to work, so he said he wants to stick with the only thing that seems to be at least helping, even if it has drawbacks. It's extremely hard to get a prescription for benzos here anyway, so he isn't a pill pusher either. Am I 'clean' or not? If not, how could I ever be under these circumstances? What kind of price will I have to pay in terms of quality of life just to feel sober? That's a depressing thought.

Then there's people with pain conditions who are going to have to either be in pain or on opioids for the rest of their lives. Of course it's not fair to call them junkies, or anyone who isn't abusing medication for that matter, but are they sober? If not, should they even aim for sobriety? After all, isn't the reason we want sobriety to improve the quality of our lives in the long run?

 

[Just A Guy]

Sobriety might be defined as having no active addictions unnecessary to one's health. People have different opinions on the subject, but I don't think abstinence is necessary to be sober if one has eliminated the problems associated with substance use...

Good question!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

When I say I am clean/sober - I mean I am free of addiction.

Or more specifically, that I quit needles and hard drugs.

 

[cj]

My personal goal was never complete sobriety so I don't let it bother me. That said my definition would be your sober if your not taking any drugs not prescribed by a doctor. So I would consider OP sober. I would be sober if I just took my methadone and prescribed drugs.

 

[herbavore]

There are a couple of things here that strike me, one general and one specifically related to your situation, FnX.

The word and concept of sobriety, like anything else, can be over-thought, taken apart and micro-examined until it ceases to be a healthy state of being and becomes instead a rigid definition that people can obsess over and argue about. People want sobriety so that they can simply live their lives without addiction being the controlling factor of their existence. If not being in addiction replaces being in addiction as an obsessive state, how can you get on with the business of simply living? In the two examples that you gave, a chronic pain patient and a person on meds for a psychological reason, I don't think there is any question that a person should not have to worry about the dependence that comes with the prescriptions. That person may decide to try non-medicinal approaches to either condition because of side effects, increased tolerance, etc. but if that is truly not sustainable then why should the word sobriety even come into it?

As far as your particular situation with benzos however, I think your doctor is in fact being somewhat cavalier. Many people on Bluelight can attest to increased anxiety over time with the use of prescribed benzos (which were originally prescribed for anxiety!). There is also the cruel reality of an initial increase of anxiety when a person does successfully taper off them. But many people have successfully done it and feel better once they have cleared their minds over time. One thing that strikes me about anxiety itself is how for many people (myself included, anxiety naturally lessens with age). If you were put on clonazepam at an early age you have not had the benefit of having simple things like maturity and an evolving understanding of self/society naturally lessen anxiety. Why should your doctor assume that severe anxiety is your natural state of being when it is almost always made acute by thought processes? There are many methods out there (mindfulness, CBT, etc) that are effective in changing those learned behaviors. I think that your own uneasiness with taking the prescription may come less from wanting to be "completely sober" and more from your deepest self wanting to change and grow.

 

[FnX]

There are a couple of things here that strike me, one general and one specifically related to your situation, FnX.

The word and concept of sobriety, like anything else, can be over-thought, taken apart and micro-examined until it ceases to be a healthy state of being and becomes instead a rigid definition that people can obsess over and argue about. People want sobriety so that they can simply live their lives without addiction being the controlling factor of their existence. If not being in addiction replaces being in addiction as an obsessive state, how can you get on with the business of simply living? In the two examples that you gave, a chronic pain patient and a person on meds for a psychological reason, I don't think there is any question that a person should not have to worry about the dependence that comes with the prescriptions. That person may decide to try non-medicinal approaches to either condition because of side effects, increased tolerance, etc. but if that is truly not sustainable then why should the word sobriety even come into it?

As far as your particular situation with benzos however, I think your doctor is in fact being somewhat cavalier. Many people on Bluelight can attest to increased anxiety over time with the use of prescribed benzos (which were originally prescribed for anxiety!). There is also the cruel reality of an initial increase of anxiety when a person does successfully taper off them. But many people have successfully done it and feel better once they have cleared their minds over time. One thing that strikes me about anxiety itself is how for many people (myself included, anxiety naturally lessens with age). If you were put on clonazepam at an early age you have not had the benefit of having simple things like maturity and an evolving understanding of self/society naturally lessen anxiety. Why should your doctor assume that severe anxiety is your natural state of being when it is almost always made acute by thought processes? There are many methods out there (mindfulness, CBT, etc) that are effective in changing those learned behaviors. I think that your own uneasiness with taking the prescription may come less from wanting to be "completely sober" and more from your deepest self wanting to change and grow.

Oh yes, many points I agree with. I have a way of twisting and micro-examining words in my mind to the point of absurdness. Last night I kind of came to the conclusion absolute sobriety does not even exist because of the way our bodies are designed; almost everything alters our mental state. Food and nutrients for example. Is there somekind of magical line you should not cross, as to not get a high from more natural things? Foods contain chemicals too, which is not that different from pills. How much magnesium am I allowed to take to not cross this line, the bare minimum for survival? Hell, science doesn't even know what is optimal when it comes to nutrition, it keeps fluctuating and people have different opinions. Then there's love, runners high, etc. I think if we would start drawing such lines we really would be stepping into orwellian territory.

As for my personal situation, yeah, I did apply for CBT, but I couldn't get funding. 'Lost cause' they say. Can't afford it myself with the disability pension that covers for food, rent and just a little extra if I eat super cheap, extra which I used to spend mostly on alcohol but now I can have that extra for cheap hobbies at least. Not therapy though, that's crazy expensive. You're right about me wanting to change and grow though, but that's exactly the reason why I want to be 'completely sober', I believe a person can't truly know themselves when they are under the influence of exogenous drugs that steer their direction of change and growth. That's why I was and still am willing to suffer for it so, so much. It's the not being able to participate in society in any meaningful manner part which sucks, I could easily do that with the help of proper medication/drugs, complete my education, perhaps even get a job some day, so me trying to get 'sober' and refusing medication is actually due to rather selfish motives.