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Is this what 'losing the magic' is? Need input from the EADD MDMA monsters....

I AM i.e said:
Can't comment on 2-3 years use. I've been using it more like 25, the first 10 of which were pretty heavy and totally against what would be deemed sensible and safe practice. I still have a blast maybe 1-3 times a year.

In my opinion it's bollocks. No loss of 'magic', there never was any magic to lose its just chemistry plain and simple. The thing that goes missing over time is the novelty, the wonder that a little pill can make you feel like that.

I've had some great nights over the last five years but instead of 'wow this is amazing' its more like 'this is fucking excellent'. Last year we had one of the best nights ever - and that's some tough competition. Get the drugs, music and atmosphere right and its as good as ever. Maybe try candy/hippy flipping or touch of K just to change it up a little?
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This is more or less exactly my experience. Spot on with the novelty thing. The effects of MDMA never change but everything else does. Or rather they did change - and dramatically so - and then they tend to get stuck in a bit of a rut one way or another. Often a very pleasing rut but a rut nonetheless. If "magic" is required you need to put yourself in and around new and exciting situations, places, people and so forth. They say familiarity brings contempt but I find it mostly just brings mediocrity.

Bearlove said:
I think Treacles posts are pretty much spot on tbh - It was not about finding your sweet spot , it was taking stupid amount of MDMA because it was piss cheap and great fun (reckless, dangerous YES of course). I've been in the game a while and I still love MDMA <3.
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Also this. I never noticed any correlation between reckless abuse of MDMA and supposed loss of "magic". Around the time I joined BL I was IVing 3.5g of xtal a week (well, over 2-3 days anyway). Had fuck all to do with "magic" it was just pure hedonism. I have no desire to use those kind of amounts anymore and personally find a couple of decent pills is plenty for a night now. "Magic" still in full effect and long may it stay that way <3
 
Took MD on and off through 2011, the effects were pretty much consistent every time. usually the same set and setting, although the times the settings were different the euphoria was always there, never felt lacking. stopped doing it then started again through 2013 and some batches were good, some were shit. more shit than not, thought i'd broken myself or something, noticeably difference. Gave up on it after buying love lacking batches, then got some again at the end of 2014 and it was amazing, just like how it used to be. Constantly good from that source until i got some MD from another source which felt lacking, mongy.

If i recall the sweet spot during the amazing times was 125/150mg-ish
 
SilentRoller said:
Oh, and Treacle? You seem like a sound bloke buddy but your past use of MDMA is verging on (what some would call) foolishly heavy. However, I am certainly not one to judge amd I'm not necessarily doubting your experience. I in fact have a mate who abuses MDMA weekly, sometimes multiple times a week in high doses (he consumed 5gs of MDMA at Reading Festival and almost died - I think he has a problem). However, even he tells me he still gets some effect from pills, but what that may be, I don't know. He does always appear fucked though, and even gets pupil dilation. However, he recently took a month break for the first time in years, and said that when he dropped again the experience was so much better. However he is now back to smashing it multiple times a week.

Still unsure as to how hardcore (idiotic) this guy is? Once during a session, he carried round a 1.5g rock of MDMA in his hand and basically nibbled on it constantly all night, whilst also taking pills (he had also got on it the night before). The rock was gone by the morning. Then he had to drive him and his 3 mates home, 5 hours up North. Having not slept from the session and feeling "a bit tired", he decides to drop his last Green Heineken (200mg pill) to keep him awake on the drive home.

Now THAT my friends is abuse.
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Well put.
 
SilentRoller: Yeah, that certainly sounds like pretty reckless abuse! There's only been once or twice that I've done more than ten in a session. Apparently, one weekend, I was in a particularly bad place and my mate said I ate about 15 or 16 in one go, before he grabbed the bag off me. I don't remember much, but I wasn't ill. I think they were MDA pills, as well. A lot of other mates would commonly take lots of pills (obviously spread over the night, not at once), and absolutely no one ended up ill. I do them maybe once a month now, and one decent pill will always bring me up, exactly how my friends who are new to it come up. Proper pills get me loved up, empathetic, eyes rolling, jaw swinging, everything you'd expect. Shit MDMA affects me the same as plenty of other people on here. I'd go as far as to suggest that I'm living proof that MDMA doesn't cause any significant brain damage/changes. My memory is really good, to say that I also drink and smoke weed on a daily basis, and I'm not depressed. I also don't get comedowns, unless I take too many pills...
 
Quality of pills must play a key role. Example:

3 months ago I took my first MDMA in like 7 years, it was a fourth of a pill. So even if some insane Dutch MDMA bomb ~300mg (which is geographically possible) it's a faint dose. Best night of my life, period. The effects took at least 6 hours to wear off. Pure fucking magic. No side effects at all (jaw clenching, hallucinations, cramps etc.) so dose must've been very low indeed. No hangover either.

3 months later I take 3 whole pills, tested on MDMA (quantity unknown), and all I get is this wobbly vibe and a whole load of side effects. Decent rush when 2nd pill kicks in but it's gone before you realize it.

So I'm not led to believe physical tolerance, expectations, novelty, permanent neural change, or whatever, are causing such extreme variation. They probably factor into it, yeah. Important to try and control all those factors to get the most out of your pills. But it's useless if you got shit pills to begin with.

I wonder what makes pills so different, though... I mean I'm no chemist, but MDMA is MDMA, right? Besides here in the Netherlands 95% of tested pills are clear of adulterants.

Anyone???
 
It's strange isn't it. Logic (and probably science) tells us that MDMA is MDMA. However, enough people are talking of this phenomenon that it leads you to believe that there could be something to it...
 
From a more chemistry tuned and connected mind than mine...

^ That's precisely correct, however, it doesn't answer our question because MDMA from safrole is actually made via MD-P2P or PMK by generally converting safrole to isosafrole to the ketone. MDMA from PMK-glycidate is made via MD-P2P or PMK by converting the glycidate into the ketone (fuck knows what else is produced during this process and if it stays in the final product - doubtful though).

So I don't think there is any doubt that the answer lies in this significant change, the same change which suddenly saw the emergence of mega dose and mega massive Dutch pills. There must be a connection to both matters but I am at a loss to explain what that might be.

Is the MDMA from PMK where the glycidate has been used really different from the MDMA from PMK where safrole has been used? If so, in what way? And why does it occur, from a chemistry perspective, when based on ordinary principles that I know of, it shouldn't be occurring?
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However the phenomenon of losing the magic has existed for decades longer than the current raise in Dutch mega pills
 
Yes, using that new precursor does seem to be the reason for the change. There were no 300mg pills, before the change, because absolutely no one needed doses so large, when the MDMA was decent. As mentioned above, everyone loved the 90mg pills going around, because you actually came up off one. Taking three at once would have floored anyone. In the trials they're currently doing (like Ecstasy: Live on Channel 4), they're using something like 80mg, and the people definitely look pretty high, including Keith Allen, who has taken plenty of drugs. If that dose works for people, it must be some decent stuff.
 
For what it's worth, the best MDMA crystal I ever had was from a friend who had saved a gram he had bought back in the 97' era from Croydon. He sent me a .2 and I dropped it all at once, as this is a standard starting dose for me. It ended up being almost too much and I ended up dry heaving outside (something I NEVER do on MDMA) and ended up being beyond wrecked for the entire evening. However despite my state, I found I had loads of energy to talk to people and dance even if it looked like I was having a stroke.

I've never had MDMA that strong since. Absolutely stunk of safrole too.
 
There is definitely (seems to me) a difference in effects between the mdma available in the 90s compared to the mdma around in most of the noughties - the safrole type smell certainly seemed to be associated with the good stuff ime. That this anecdotal experience seems to match the change in available precursors (safrole?) is suggestive. Could this difference really be down to the (hopefully) small amount of differeing impurities in the relative methods? it seems too big a difference (but it's there nonetheless - maybe biochemistry is just more mysterious and complicated than reductionist chemist like to admit...)

I also heard somewhere that the way it was made in the 90s meant that they often had 'spare' mda, and there were more mda/mdma mix pills back then - i don't think this is it though (except for particular pills)
 
Or perhaps a lot of people are full of shit when they say they buy "lab tested" MDMA. Most of what goes around might trigger the test for MDMA, however there is every chance that other adulterants or even a slight analogue may be causing a positive test, and what is present is not MDMA that we know.
 
I remember in the early noughties when i first started taking pills and the feeling i got from them then being amazing, proper empathy etc. And i remember talking to people then who took pills in the early 90's saying that they were nothing like the pills back in their day even tho i thought they were amazing. I just think its mostly down to the novelty wearing off and partly down to quality.

The main thing i don't like about mdma now is the comedowns seem to get worse but i don't think that's down to the mdma changing but down to myself changing over the years.
 
See, I've always heard of the "come downs" but for me I had an afterglow of about 2-4 days and just returned to normal. Sure, I was, to those who really knew me, being seen as extra lovey and excitable for the following days but after that, service resumed as normal.

Just experience and past experience at that. Who knows what the fuck I'd be like now.
 
I find lack of sleep is more of a dexter mining factor than the MDMA. If I stay up until 6am and have a pretend sleep during the rest of the day, it takes a good week to reset.

If I am in bed by midnight after a session and don't lose a nights rest, I'm nothing more than a little dazed for a couple of days.
 
Think that's half my problem, knowing when to call it a night....
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See unusually, I never seem to have that problem with MD. Yes I dose high (and redose) but even I realise that there is not much point continuing to eat MDMA once you are coming down. It seems to do absolutely nothing apart from making urine retention and jaw clenching worse. I can't imagine dosing MDMA past the 5/6 hour mark, the thought of it just makes me feel sick.
 
I think another factor to this is there is many lackluster batches of MDMA going round both in crystal and pill form. The UK pills UFO's, ninja turtles, rainbow drops etc have all been good. A batch of green rockstars from holland were also magical, so were the blue diamonds/nipples. I've heart the yellow snapchats were too.

Just aquired some MDMA crystal that actually looks the same and smells the same as the stuff pre drought. Straight to black with fizzing on marquis test. Dropped 75mg then the same an hour apart. Can already feel some magic and empathy, chatting to friends.

It is like finding one good batch of pills/MDMA among ten shit ones. And all of the shit ones still have labtested as MDMA. Bizarre.
 
Sadie said:
See, I've always heard of the "come downs" but for me I had an afterglow of about 2-4 days and just returned to normal. Sure, I was, to those who really knew me, being seen as extra lovey and excitable for the following days but after that, service resumed as normal.

Just experience and past experience at that. Who knows what the fuck I'd be like now.
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Same same, m'dear. Afterglow all the way. Yum <3
 
Sidnafilisevil said:
I think another factor to this is there is many lackluster batches of MDMA going round both in crystal and pill form. The UK pills UFO's, ninja turtles, rainbow drops etc have all been good. A batch of green rockstars from holland were also magical, so were the blue diamonds/nipples. I've heart the yellow snapchats were too.

Just aquired some MDMA crystal that actually looks the same and smells the same as the stuff pre drought. Straight to black with fizzing on marquis test. Dropped 75mg then the same an hour apart. Can already feel some magic and empathy, chatting to friends.

It is like finding one good batch of pills/MDMA among ten shit ones. And all of the shit ones still have labtested as MDMA. Bizarre.
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See, on this Dutch forum everybody's adamant MDMA is just MDMA. Unless your pills are contaminated, the quality of the experience should be pretty much 100% subjective. Set & setting and all that jazz.

While on this forum I see persuasive arguments as to the chemical quality of batches being essential to the experience.

Based on my own experiences I certainly both prefer and believe the latter.

I should start thoroughly researching things myself, for lack of any true scientific body of literature on the topic, but the irony of that would be I'd definitely lose the magic. ;)
 
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