Social The Delphic Oracle - Know Thyself: P&S Social Ampitheatre of Doom

[ForEverAfter]

As for the spirituality of dissociatives, i feel that every cosmic truth or revelation i have stumbled upon under their influence has been tempered somewhat by the delusional thinking and confusion that can also come with drugs like DXM or MXE. One of the last times i took MXE i could not ascertain whether it was day or night - neither clocks, nor looking outside my apartment gave me any indication whether it was midday or midnight (i knew it was about 1 o'clock - but it wasnt until the next day that i realised it had been 1am...not 1pm). Some profound realisations in there too...but so many tangled thought-webs as well. I'm not sure i trust dissociative revelations like i implicitly do with certain psychedelics.

Agreed. Well said.
Although, I remain lucid with low doses of DXM.

I feel like you're describing high dose experiences.

But, then, low dose experiences aren't exactly spiritual.
(They can be revelatory, but the revelations aren't what I'd describe as spiritual.)

I was being fucked to death by the cosmos a few months ago and I suddenly felt a warm comfort; after checking my pants, I 'realised' that it was actually the Jesusian entity communicating with me. I meekly asked the roof "Jesus, is that you?". He didn't reply, but the roof did.

That reads, to me, more like a delirious experience than a spiritual one.

 

[tantric]

for what its worth: DXM is the water of life, a la Dune - the bile of a drowned sandworm. it's a poison given to women who wish to become holy. they must use their body's enzymes to transform it to the hallucinogenic aphrodisiac used in the seitch orgies. more to the point, DXM is a horrid, dysphoric drug. only the minority of the population that has the enzymes to rapidly convert it to DXO can use it spiritually. y'all are aware of this, right, i don't have to quote the enzyme and journal refs?

lady jessica, chuggin' the tussin'

 

[ForEverAfter]

^I've consumed pure DXO, and I disagree with you.

There are much more spiritual drugs.
Dissociatives < Psychedelics (generally).

...

Aren't you the guy who's been arguing that some people need to be beaten with baseball bats?
You've been consuming DXM for decades (according to an earlier post) and it clearly hasn't done that much for you (spiritually).

I think a lot of people describe drugs as "spiritual" to justify substance abuse.
The less potential a drug has for abuse, the more spiritual it tends to be (IMO).

 

[swilow]

It was never explicitly mentioned in Dune what exactly made melange so addictive. What was the withdrawal syndrome like? If it gives prescience, what is the opposite of that?

Re: DXO/DXM. Is it availabiity that makes this stuff appealing, or would you guys use DXM even if presented with, say, ketamine or methoxetamine?

 

[tantric]

absolutely. i'd give anything to have it in pill form. back in the day, when you could just order 100g's at a time....then again, i take it as a nootropic, a regular daily dose 75mg or 150 for long days, and there's no recreation to it, really. ketamine is too much fun - at best i can restrain myself to one k-hole a day. now i've read of k being used as an 'antidepressant' where one shot works for a week - that might do. i'm frankly terrified of high dissociative doses - i don't need something as seductive as k in my life. fuck - i don't need anymore life changing encounters with ultraterrestrials, dammit, i gave at the office. done my part for the revolution, retired.

and really, for all i know, i might completely lack the enzyme to metabolize DXM to DXO and it's the DXM that works for me, but i doubt it. it's the afterglow i seek, the trippy shit is just annoying now.

Melange comes with a steep price, however: it is addictive, and withdrawal is fatal

 

[ForEverAfter]

Personally, I don't like ketamine.
I've never had methoxetamine, but I'm not interested.
DXM isn't a cheap substitute for dissociatives. It's a psychedelic dissociative, with a unique personality.
All of my favorite dissociative experiences have been with DXM (and DXM combos).

But, yeah, I guess it's also nostalgic (and I consumed it when I was a teenager, because it was available).
So, availability has something do with it.

i'm frankly terrified of high dissociative doses - i don't need something as seductive as k in my life

Yeah, that's part of it for me too.
If I start buying ketamine or PCP or something, I'm more likely to abuse it (have unnecessarily high doses).

I've always found DXM to be absolutely manageable.
I've been consuming it (in one form or another) for fifteen years.

It's never really gotten out of hand.
I've rarely consumed more than a gram in a single week.

Shamanistic drugs - like Amanita Muscaria - taste absolutely horrible.
They make you sick. They have a high body load.
This prevents them from having recreational appeal.

I tend to ruin drugs.
If I got into k, I would ruin it.
DXM is something I can do my entire life without it getting out of hand.

 

[swilow]

absolutely. i'd give anything to have it in pill form. back in the day, when you could just order 100g's at a time....then again, i take it as a nootropic, a regular daily dose 75mg or 150 for long days, and there's no recreation to it, really. ketamine is too much fun - at best i can restrain myself to one k-hole a day. now i've read of k being used as an 'antidepressant' where one shot works for a week - that might do. i'm frankly terrified of high dissociative doses

Interesting. Due to my negative reactions to DXM in any form, I can only consider DXM's availability as its main positive. Each to their own though. Have you tried MXE or any more recent analogs? I feel like MXE is more similar to DXM then ketamine, in terms of its stimulating side effect, but it has a strong, weird serotonergic push to it. I find that I take a dose and feel odd and dissociated for several hours, after which the character changes and I begin to feel really low-anxiety, physical euphoria (bodylessness), really relaxed... I think MXE would be valuable as an antidepressant, but I fear that it is so recreational (and apparently addictive, though I feel no draw to it) that it could create more, deeper problems.

I get a nice afterglow from MXE and ketamine, but especially MXE. I think its the effect on serotonin. I feel really pleasant right now actually. Satisfied and quite calm, aware. I feel like I've returned from a holiday (which I actually have so....)

 

[ebola?]

How spiritual/mystical do you guys find dissociatives?

For me, med-high doses can be profoundly so (but marred by confusion and hindered long-term memory formation). However, my personal brand of 'spirituality' (if you can even call it that) is atheism with a mystical touch, so I don't have brushes with what people seem to call god (at least any remotely anthropomorphic god). But I've indeed had a couple of K-experiences where I've 'fallen' into some substratum of conditions of possibility for being, 'logically' (or at least epistemologically) prior to temporality, conceptual distinction, logic, and even the very distinction between being and non-being. It sure is a lot hazier than with 5ht2a agonists though. Also, even on medium doses, I often get a 'feel' for how all processes of the universe throughout history have culminated in the current moment (and in turn every moment).

ebola

 

[tantric]

For me, med-high doses can be profoundly so (but marred by confusion and hindered long-term memory formation). However, my personal brand of 'spirituality' (if you can even call it that) is atheism with a mystical touch, so I don't have brushes with what people seem to call god (at least any remotely anthropomorphic god). But I've indeed had a couple of K-experiences where I've 'fallen' into some substratum of conditions of possibility for being, 'logically' (or at least epistemologically) prior to temporality, conceptual distinction, logic, and even the very distinction between being and non-being. It sure is a lot hazier than with 5ht2a agonists though. Also, even on medium doses, I often get a 'feel' for how all processes of the universe throughout history have culminated in the current moment (and in turn every moment).

ebola

have you or have you not seen the Giant Pulsating Brain that Rules from the Center of the Ultraverse? you know, the swarms of jellyfish angels around the staggeringly transcendent beneficence at the center of the k-hole?

CLAIREEEEE - GO INTO THE LIGHT!



this house is CLEAN.

 

[pharmakos]

It was never explicitly mentioned in Dune what exactly made melange so addictive. What was the withdrawal syndrome like? If it gives prescience, what is the opposite of that?

Re: DXO/DXM. Is it availabiity that makes this stuff appealing, or would you guys use DXM even if presented with, say, ketamine or methoxetamine?

i for one would still use DXM even if i had MXE / Ketamine / 3-MeO-PCP readily available. its never really induced in me the nausea / allergic type reaction that it produces in a lot of people.

also, some of my favorite dissociative experiences were my DXM+MXE and DXM+3-MeO-PCP combos. these combos are way more magical for me than any dose of these substances on their own.

 

[CosmicG]

I have never mixed dissos before sounds fun. I have said it before I would totally use DXM if I could get it in the pure form. That was the first drug I ever did and it blew me away.

Now I just mess with mxe and Ketamine.

Never tried 3-MeO-PCP.

Dissociatives are for sure my favorite class of drug.

 

[pharmakos]

i love dissociative combos. i've done varying mixes of DXM / MXE / 3-MeO-PCP / 4-MeO-PCP / MXP before. all of them turned out pretty well.

in particular, DXM + MXP and DXM + 3-MeO-PCP were stellar.

DXM + MXP was incredibly euphoric. adding the DXM to the MXP allowed the MXP's effects to come out without reaching the point of mindfuckery that happens on high doses of MXP alone. (both times i did the combo i think i took 200mg MXP and 300mg DXM)

DXM + 3-MeO-PCP is similar in that it allows the 3-MeO-PCP to really breathe without reaching the mindfuck state that can happen on high doses of 3-MeO on its own. 15mg 3-MeO-PCP + 300mg DXM for me produces a very clear headspace, beautifully colorful closed-eye-visuals, and the ability to drift into a bit of an OBE state but, like i said, without the mindfuck that one normally would expect when going that far on a large dose of a dissociative by itself.

its the closest i've been to an OBE experience while still being able to open my eyes and behave coherently.

note that i've always used doses that are low- to medium-sized for my tolerance. i'm sure that combining high doses of dissociatives could very easily end up being more of a trainwreck than using high doses of any given substance by itself.

 

[swilow]

^I've only ever combined nitrous and ketamine before, never mixed dissociatives that I can recall. For some reason, it doesn't appeal to me.

I found MXE combines well with 5-MeO-DMT. MXE seems to reduce the massive fear associated with 5-MeO-DMT. I think its the reduction of input from the physical that dissociatives induce as the functionality behind this. 5-MeO-DMT is actually almost a dissociative IMO...

That reads, to me, more like a delirious experience than a spiritual one.

Obviously, I was joking. Neither the roof nor Jesus answered me. I found it amusing- or interesting- that, when confronted by what felt like an external, patriarchal, protective force, that I assumed it was Jesus. Or, more to the point, I found it neccesary to verify whether it was or wasn't.

For me, med-high doses can be profoundly so (but marred by confusion and hindered long-term memory formation). However, my personal brand of 'spirituality' (if you can even call it that) is atheism with a mystical touch, so I don't have brushes with what people seem to call god (at least any remotely anthropomorphic god). But I've indeed had a couple of K-experiences where I've 'fallen' into some substratum of conditions of possibility for being, 'logically' (or at least epistemologically) prior to temporality, conceptual distinction, logic, and even the very distinction between being and non-being. It sure is a lot hazier than with 5ht2a agonists though. Also, even on medium doses, I often get a 'feel' for how all processes of the universe throughout history have culminated in the current moment (and in turn every moment).

I think that I get more 'scientific' style revelations from dissociatives. Rather then the sensation of understanding hidden internal processes (such as elicited by 5ht2a agonists from time to time), dissociatives seem to switch that understanding into the external world. I can come up with intriguing, compelling idea's about the sub-surface or reality when dissociated. I just don't have the language to relay them.

 

[ForEverAfter]

Obviously, I was joking. Neither the roof nor Jesus answered me. I found it amusing- or interesting- that, when confronted by what felt like an external, patriarchal, protective force, that I assumed it was Jesus. Or, more to the point, I found it neccesary to verify whether it was or wasn't.

What I meant was, I've experienced that sort of insanity on dissociatives and it isn't spiritual (as far as I'm concerned).
The assumption that it's Jesus - since you aren't Christian - is interesting, psychologically. I'm just not sure it's spiritual.
And, maybe that's the joke? (That it obviously wasn't spiritual?) I'm not sure. (I'm not trying to be difficult.)

On DXM and shrooms, recently, I believed that there was a tank (or some sort of obscenely large vehicle) parked in my driveway.
Maybe Jesus was in the driver's seat, though... I didn't bother to check.

I've had spiritual revelations on DXM (and other dissociatives), but there's a lot of insanity to wade through.
I find it difficult, I guess, to tame the dissociative experience. (But, not so much the psychedelic experience.)

 

[swilow]

^I was raised Catholic, so its not surprising that I would use that theology to interpret the feeling of prescence I had. It just felt weird, the sensation of prescence I don't get often on dissociatives. That said, salvia divinorum provided me the most complete reality transposition I've experienced. From my bedroom, to a desert plateau with a spherical/disk-Goddess-of-many-hue and her small, swarthy, goblin-companion. I could see the lines of age on his (its) face (eye/mouth/nose membrane). It was so terrifying to be honest. I fought and fought against the experience, and came out of it having hurled my bong into the wall.

The next time was similar, though I tried to maintain control and keep my eyes and mind open. I was able to briefly navigate a green/teal-blue honeycomb-like structure before the scene shifted and I was on a sort of hospital gurney, getting ushered into a deeper blue realm by lots of small, green spheres. When I emerged from that, I was lying on my bed as expected. My bong was safe.

Dissociatives can certainly be useful for growth and whatnot, but you are right in saying that you must sift through a lot of weird debris to get there.

On DXM and shrooms, recently, I believed that there was a tank (or some sort of obscenely large vehicle) parked in my driveway.

I love how creative delusions can be. How out-of-place and yet acceptable they can appear. Convincing. Its fun to take advantage of that.

The other night on LSD/MXE/others I decided to sit on my porch with my laptop, Audacity, a small omnidirectional mic, plus my old battered acoustic. I made a decent 45 second loop, overdubbing guitar lines via the laptop speakers, recordng myself playing whilst walking around the mix, etc. I made all percussive sounds from string scratching and hitting the body. I made a bass line by recording low E and pitching it down; combined with heaps of string microsound, it has a similar timbre to an upright bass. I sung random gibberish and auto-tuned it. It was like trying to create art using dust. I fucking enjoyed it, and would not have been able to do something as outside my usual composition technqiues without dissociative to give me 'courage' and patience. I wanted to make something using the most basic ingredients. End result is yet to be defined, but so far it sounds murky, distant, confusing and different.

Whats happening today? I decided to lubraicate the senses with some CWE codeine, 800mg, and will probably smoke up shortly...

 

[ForEverAfter]

I was raised Catholic

Ah, that makes sense.
(I wasn't aware of that.)

 

[swilow]

^I've mentioned it a few times I think. I went to 5 different catholic highschools. I guess it gave me a certain guilt based morality, but I found it highly repressive. Its clearly one of the reasons I have issues with organised religion. My father was very religious and fucking crazy. Another reason I guess.

Were you raised in a faith foreverafter?

 

[ForEverAfter]

Yeah, I got a bit of a deja-vu when I read it. It's hard to keep track of everyone, on here. (I did know it, but I forgot.)
My mind erases certain parts of people, I think, like how memories change over time (to suit the present).

I suspect that some part of me doesn't like it when people who are familiar with religion also condemn it.
It's easier - perhaps - to assume that the condemnation of religion is ignorant.

The anti-religious are biased (in their opinions) against religion.
The pro-religious are biased for religion. (I think, often, because they get used to defending it all the time.)
I'm trying to find that perfect middle ground, between biases.
But, I'm not there yet. And, I'm not sure "there" is sustainable.

Anyway, to answer your question, I wasn't raised with any religion. I've mentioned that a few times, too.
There is only one person - in my entire extended family - that is religious (aside from me).
One of my dad's cousins... She's a 60-70 year old virgin (seriously) and a fundamentalist Christian.
I did go to a religious high school, before I was expelled. (But, I wasn't interested in religion then.)

 

[ForEverAfter]

I'm going to take a leave of absence from P&S.
Sorry if I've offended anyone by being too aggressive or insensitive...

I've thought about it and I don't think I'm stable enough, right now, to discuss certain topics without getting upset (or upsetting others). My head is all fucked up, from years of drugs and alcohol. But, I don't want to admit that's the reason, so - when I misbehave - I insist that I'm not misbehaving (to avoid addressing the core of my behavior). That's how I manage to criticize others, I think, for doing what I do: because, in my head, I'm not doing it. Posting in this sub-forum has helped me realize this and lead me to re-evaluate (once again) whether or not I know anything at all... So, thanks to everyone who has endured some of my regrettable contributions to the relentless rant threads, over the past year. It hasn't been a waste of time... It's taken me a while to take on some of the criticisms offered to me, but I'm getting there.

I fear I'm going a bit mad, sometimes.

-FEA

 

[drug_mentor]

I'm going to take a leave of absence from P&S.
Sorry if I've offended anyone by being too aggressive or insensitive...

I've thought about it and I don't think I'm stable enough, right now, to discuss certain topics without getting upset (or upsetting others). My head is all fucked up, from years of drugs and alcohol. But, I don't want to admit that's the reason, so - when I misbehave - I insist that I'm not misbehaving (to avoid addressing the core of my behavior). That's how I manage to criticize others, I think, for doing what I do: because, in my head, I'm not doing it. Posting in this sub-forum has helped me realize this and lead me to re-evaluate (once again) whether or not I know anything at all... So, thanks to everyone who has endured some of my regrettable contributions to the relentless rant threads, over the past year. It hasn't been a waste of time... It's taken me a while to take on some of the criticisms offered to me, but I'm getting there.

I fear I'm going a bit mad, sometimes.

-FEA

If you feel that you can't participate in philosophical discussions in a mature and level-headed way (my recent interactions with you have been congruent with this hypothesis, from my perspective any way) then this is probably a wise decision.

Despite the fact you and I have had some differences, I wish you the best in finding peace and stability.