Harm Reduction The Pain Management Megathread (Chronic and Acute Pain Discussion) Version 5.0 ~ V

[TopShelfKratom]

Kratom has changed peoples lives that live with pain

If anyone has questions about kratom , I can help

 

[Runtoparadise]

^I dunno about Kratom, but, after more then eleven years abstinence, I've just had some weed arrive on my doorstep :/

I NEED to find out if it is helpful for my pain. I'm aware many members use it in PM for ongoing pain in the states, but not here in OZ.

With only two options laid out by my doctors, neither of which I'd really be comfortable doing, I've resorted to my own devices.

Rtp

 

[SKR]

First part spot on but im afraid your wrong you only Think you would of killed yourself because you use oxy and when you stop they cause you pain and infact probably if you had dealt with the pain like most people you wouldn't be in pain now CRS. (classic rebound syndrome)

"Dealt with pain like most people" - LOL Jeb wtf does this mean from your perspective mate? I understand you're probably a young fella, perhaps a little wet behind the ear shall we say, though who isn't from time to time.....My friend, I have had chronic pain for more than half my life due to wear and tear from various sports and athletics and though it can be quite bad sometimes I have been able to manage that pain (lower back, shoulders) through certain exercises, physio, massage and stretching...I have never sought out medicinal pain relief for these issues.

But after trying to put up with this new issue (2 years straight now) in my thoracic region, the pain wraps around my ribs so that one side of my torso is burning. I put up with it for 6 months before having a serious chat with my GP about it, I was sent to specialist after specialist, who sent me for scan after scan, jumped through as many expensive hoops as could be booked - I was ready to check myself into emergency when my GP wrote me a script for 10 Oxy CR and the following week prescribed Endone 5mg for break through pain in addition to my script for 10mg CR oxycontin. At this point I had been experiencing this pain for 12months, I am now 12 months on from there (2 years non stop pain)...Jeb ol' chum, don't think I somehow got a little painy wainy in my back one day and my local GP force-fed me a strong opiate.

I suffer PTSD, without pain relief and having this new condition consisting of anxiety/panic attacks, nah Jeb, suicide was a most viable option. I understand your mention of CRS and hyperalgesia but opiates actually help my pain, to go from a 7 to 8 out of 10 pain to a 5 to 6 out of 10 is basically a miracle for a cp patient. Jeb, my pain is constant and unrelenting, all that happens when I reduce or stop taking oxy is my pain returns to it's non opiated baseline - it doesn't get worse than it was to begin with, I think you are trying to say that oxy causes me more physical pain....you get some aches and pains coming off all opiates I suspect but that's not a reason continue using opiates in my opinion.

Be thankful you aren't in enough pain to warrant a painkiller - it sucks mate.

it my painOpiates are excellent for acute pain, not so good for chronic pain but only due to tolerance in my opinion. I think detoxing every few months and/or drastically reducing your dose for a while would be beneficial to the cpp.

I'm yet to meet a doctor just handing out pain pills, there is a quite uniformly respected set of guidelines that GP's seem to follow when dealing with their cp patients when it comes to prescribing opiates in my experience

 

[namnoc16]

@Namnoc-(couldn't get the quote thing to work lol)



Only you know your limits with pain, if it is manageable most of the time then I would hold off on surgery unless there is evidence of instability in the spine. Do you get regular scans? I am not sure if my reply helped, feel free to ask me anything about fusion experience, more than happy to share. Thank you for the info on the spine implant, I don't want one implanted and will continue to tell my doc "no thanks"

!

Yeah I don't think you can use quotes until you are considered a bluelighter which is after 50 posts.

I get MRI's done every 2 years(as that's how often my insurance covers them) but my last 1 was in 2013 so I'm due.

I appreciate your candid answer because most people usually sugar coat it by not making it as bad as I suspect, all in an attempt to not frighten me anymore then they deem appropriate. I understand they think they are being compassionate but when it comes to situations like this it hurts more then helps . I'm searching for honest answers and that's what you gave me thanks!

I can't think of any questions off the top of my head but I'm certain as I think of them(and I will) I will bombarb you with questions. You didn't realize what you were getting into ,huh-LOL.



Oh and where are my manners ,Welcome to Bluelight the most helpful site on such issues by educated people that are so glad to help!

 

[Jlosnow]

@Namnoc- I'm glad I was able to be of help, I am not a sugar coating kind of gal so I tend to be pretty blunt in my answers. I don't mind AT ALL if you have a million questions, I am grateful to be able to help. I am still adapting to the changes post surgery. Biggest change is my lack of flexibility, it is very hard to bend down or over. This is a permanent change that my surgeon warned me about so I thought I was prepared but it was way worse than I imagined, e.x. I cannot bend down to take shoes off or on, I have to sit. Overall I don't regret the surgery because it helped me be able to walk unaided and decreased my overall pain by a bit. It's good you get regular MRIs, keep me posted on your scans, I hope they come back "stable" ♡

 

[rokkinrollaa6]

i've been dealing with chronic pain now, for almost as long as I have been an addict. I've been addicted for 15 years, but had chronic pain first from a bone break in my knee requiring 3 surgeries between 2003 and 2007, and then a chronic kidney issue for the past 4-5 years. When I FIRST started off, doctors were annoying to deal with, but were reaonsable. I was often scripted 7.5 percocets 6 times a day, or Dilaudid 4mg 4 times a day, and even in 2012 my pain managment doctors would alternate between either 20mg oxycodone 4 times a day, or 10mg hydrocodone 4 times a day on top of 15mg MSC 2 times a day.

Things have changed in just a few years to a point where now in 2014-2015 getting 30-40 tabs of 10mg hydrocodone A WEEK, when I was enduring several kidney surgeries was like trying to ask for injectable morphine and syringes. doctors were unwilling to script anything stronger than tylenol 3 or tramadol for my chronic condition, and it was so bad that when I came to Israel from Russia, I was immediately pleased at being able to get OTC codiene, and easily get scripts for 5mg percocet on top of Tramadol for my current pain. It's funny, because there was a time when if I didn't have hydromorphone or morphine, i could not get any pain releif at all, and now i am THANKFUL to have something like percocet or even norco to help with the pain because I know what it's like to go to the hospital, have the doctor take a CT scan, confirm diagnosis and then script.... nothing at all, except a meagre 10mg morphine shot.

Things are just getting worse in the states for pain patients... I remember when I got 140 dilaudids a month no questions asked. to date, this was the ONLY painkiller to give me 80-90% relief aside from morphine, but due to junkies fucking over doctors, its becoming rarer and rarer, and now even hydrocodone and oxycodone, once common pain medications for moderate pain, are hard to procure even for severe pain. my last pain managment doctor would not script for over 90 hydrocodones a month, and it goes to say that 1-2 pills does not do anything for the amount of pain I have, so I was forced to space them out and take large doses once every few days rather than every day. even here in israel when I tried to get my doctor to switch me to a better medication from percocet, they said flatly no, and i tried switching doctors and they tried to even take me OFF of the percocet. suffice to say, now I am afraid of rocking the boat, and so I make due with OTC codiene to supplement my meagre weekly amount of medicine, but i have to say that i am HAPPY that I get ANYTHING AT ALL. in the USA, they rarely script oxycodone now to anyone, and good luck getting dilaudid unless you are an old man or something. It's truly scary how bad things are getting in the USA for pain patients. so because of that i go and take my weekly peroccet and tramadol scripts with gratitude, as i could end up one day with nothing again, and have to spend the whole night in agony.

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

^ that sucks man, junkies who don't have severe pain annoy me as they make our lives a lot harder.

i shattered my shoulder ball and socket last year april they said I'm not a candidate for a shoulder replacement yet so the surgeon just put like 20 screws and reconstructed it makeshift like. He said this will have to be redone every 2 years until I can get a shoulder replacement and that I'd be in chronic pain. Really sucks, shoulder looks like the dude in the old movie hellraiser there are so many screws.

ATM i am rx'd 160 mgs of oxycodone per day but I take more like 300 mgs + atm, I supplement my legit rx with a pill mill (not ideal I know).

I'd really like to get down to what I'm rx'd even less ideally. Being dependant on such a high dose is not fun. Need help getting the dose down. I get 120 MundiePharma OxyContin 40 mg tablets per month and supplement with more ocs and oxynorm 20 ir.

These pills are chewable (they are not OP's like in the US and OZ - you can crush em and chew em easily, which is a problem as I often chew em to feel a lot better, sometimes even snort em - but not often).

Was in hospital for 2 weeks last year when they did my shoulder op, it was quite a nightmare, was given welconal (dipipenone) on top of 320 mgs of oxy while I was in hospital. The fact that I have to go through all of that again in a matter of months is quite frankly depressing, and makes me feel like getting off oxy completely is pointless seeing as I'll be put back on it when they redo my shoulder.

I wanna kill myself and feel life is not worth living from the pain as well as the sadness (my mom - my only other family has terminal cancer), so it's a struggle to live with it and can't live without it situation (oxycodone).


Any tips for helping me reduce my oxy intake would be appreciated, any RX OTC meds I can take that will help me go longer between doses.The only other med I'm on atm is Loprazolam (Dormonoct) 2mg at night for sleep.

Feel for you in the US I wouldn't be able to cope with that. Thankfully ATM I get my meds each month with not too much hassle. But I really want to get the dose down.

 

[Runtoparadise]

^Is tapering not an option? Or a few days off occasionally as another has said?

It's never been an option for me, if I have my oxy with me I'm always gonna take it rather than manage without.

I'm scripted a high amount, but self medicate, due to tolerance now as well as deciding I'm not just gonna sit around all day, I demand to have some quality of life rather than some half assed attempt at moderately containing this relentless pain. As my PM dr says, it's unmanageable, it's uncontrolled, & barely contained if at all especially during flare ups.

I try to plan for when I'm likely to run short of oxy & don't schedule anything too physical or demanding.

If you can get hold of a GABA med (which I'm sure you can ?), in staggered doses, it helps to kinda stone myself to a point where my brain doesn't really register pain. Or crave oxy too much. IME. I've been doing this for a couple of years now.

May not be a great suggestion, but one worthy of noting. I'm sure you've checked the potentiation threads, antihistamines & benzos help make the best of my script.

I'm sorry we're all hurting, peace & good karma to you fellow Cpp's.

Rtp

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

^is , jus fkin hard as im sure you know. Will try get some gabergics maybe some weak benzos like clobazam (have a fulltime job to hold down too) and perhaps lyrica. But yeah oxy shes a wicked liuttle fox aint she. Always whispering take more, we'll cross the running out bridge when we get there i your ear.

 

[Jlosnow]

@whosaa- I am so sorry to hear of your condition and the situation with your shoulder As for the oxy dose, perhaps change your ROA? I have read that plugging meds anally helps increase BA but I also read oxy has a very high BA orally so most don't plug it for that reason. The opiate potentiate thread has a lot of suggestions, the most common I have seen is white grapefruit juice, tagamet otherwise known as cimitidine, and antihistamines. There are a lot of posts on the subject here on bl, I hope you find something that works for you.

 

[Jlosnow]

@RTP-I always start my month thinking I can control how many I take and yet every month I run out early.

 

[Speed King]

@whosaa- I am so sorry to hear of your condition and the situation with your shoulder As for the oxy dose, perhaps change your ROA? I have read that plugging meds anally helps increase BA but I also read oxy has a very high BA orally so most don't plug it for that reason. The opiate potentiate thread has a lot of suggestions, the most common I have seen is white grapefruit juice, tagamet otherwise known as cimitidine, and antihistamines. There are a lot of posts on the subject here on bl, I hope you find something that works for you.

Hello everyone. I wanted to first start by agreeing with the post above me. That's mostly it in a nutshell.
I just got back on with pain management. I have mainly fibromyalgia and I hurt my left shoulder.
I've been started on a total of 4, 5/325mg Percocet a day. I'm hoping that is just to get a baseline. My actual tolerance is actually more like 40 mg of Oxycodone at one time. I would like to progress wisely with my pain doctor. Some people on here suggest a ER medicine, with a IR for breakthrough pain. I would prefer to just goto a good ER medicine.

I tried Opana a few times in the past and I think it is great. Does anyone have any opinions on Opana ER or something along those lines?

 

[rokkinrollaa6]

^ that sucks man, junkies who don't have severe pain annoy me as they make our lives a lot harder.

i shattered my shoulder ball and socket last year april they said I'm not a candidate for a shoulder replacement yet so the surgeon just put like 20 screws and reconstructed it makeshift like. He said this will have to be redone every 2 years until I can get a shoulder replacement and that I'd be in chronic pain. Really sucks, shoulder looks like the dude in the old movie hellraiser there are so many screws.

ATM i am rx'd 160 mgs of oxycodone per day but I take more like 300 mgs + atm, I supplement my legit rx with a pill mill (not ideal I know).

I'd really like to get down to what I'm rx'd even less ideally. Being dependant on such a high dose is not fun. Need help getting the dose down. I get 120 MundiePharma OxyContin 40 mg tablets per month and supplement with more ocs and oxynorm 20 ir.

These pills are chewable (they are not OP's like in the US and OZ - you can crush em and chew em easily, which is a problem as I often chew em to feel a lot better, sometimes even snort em - but not often).

Was in hospital for 2 weeks last year when they did my shoulder op, it was quite a nightmare, was given welconal (dipipenone) on top of 320 mgs of oxy while I was in hospital. The fact that I have to go through all of that again in a matter of months is quite frankly depressing, and makes me feel like getting off oxy completely is pointless seeing as I'll be put back on it when they redo my shoulder.

I wanna kill myself and feel life is not worth living from the pain as well as the sadness (my mom - my only other family has terminal cancer), so it's a struggle to live with it and can't live without it situation (oxycodone).


Any tips for helping me reduce my oxy intake would be appreciated, any RX OTC meds I can take that will help me go longer between doses.The only other med I'm on atm is Loprazolam (Dormonoct) 2mg at night for sleep.

Feel for you in the US I wouldn't be able to cope with that. Thankfully ATM I get my meds each month with not too much hassle. But I really want to get the dose down.

That amount of Oxy a day is a lot. I would suggest using the normal boosters and potentiators, grapefruit juice and diphenhydramine, and one thing that helped me cut down was adding Tramadol and Diphenhydramine and cutting my loading dose 20-30 percent. I used to be on something like 20-40mg of dilaudid and 120 mgs of morphine a day at my worst in 2009, and worked hard to get it down to a quarter of that.

I assume you are in the UK right? have you considered CWE or Paramol, or Jcollis brownes to provide potentiation either? for me when I use combos, for whatever reason, my dose stays down much further.

I would also suggest trying to get a potent anti-inflammatory to take alongside your oxy such as Diclofenac sodium to allow you to cut your dose without as much effect towards pain. I used to never take this stuff dismissing it as garbage, until one day being out of anything else forced me to try it. needless to say it isn't a replacement for genuine pain meds, but it is a great potentiator for pain releif.

that being said the only way I really was able to get my doses down to their relatively low mark is by taking a lot of time off and suffering. its barbaric and shouldnt have to happen in modern society but honestly, there was really no other way. I did two months in russia with no painkillers except a few days of heroin use, and it basically brought my tolerance to nothing, nil. but to get there I spent many days biting my cheek until it bled or just taking tranquilizers to sleep. wouldn't recommend it.

however back in Israel where drugs are plentiful and legal, my tolerance is back up to the point where 480mg codeine will barely scratch the itch and kill the pain, and 50mg oxycodone with 400mg tramadol is the lowest combo dose i can take.

to make matters worse, my doctor threatened to hospitalize me and cut me off yesterday because he "is not a urologist, and does not want to keep providing drugs to a patient he cannot treat with anything aside from drugs", and now I have to find another MD that is compliant in providing basic pain releif to a condition that I have documented proof of having.

I'll be quite honest, much of the time I just weigh going back to taking heroin because despite the expense, it is no questions asked. I don't want to use illegal drugs when I have a genuine condition, but dealing with the amount of static I do, for what amounts to 2-3 doses of pain meds a week gets old quick. going to see a new english speaking doctor very soon and ask for a pain management doctor so I can get decent amounts of pain meds and not have to tough out days of moderate pain and save my pills for days of severe pain.

honestly though if something goes wrong, I may just end up back on heroin because it is easier than dealing with Russian doctors who come from a culture of "life is hard, deal with it". easy to say to a patient when you have never had chronic renal colic yourself and the only drug you take is vodka, but that's the way it is right now. If I can't improve my situation fast, I'll be heading to downtown tel aviv to score a few grammes. sad reality, the worst part is I HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, one of the best in Israel with full coverage.

I've honestly considered suicide myself at times because of this. as a chronic pain patient you truly live a nightmarish existence, and in the USA you get to go through even worse things.

 

[Jlosnow]

Rokkin- I am so sorry you are going through so much pain and hassle all to treat a DIAGNOSED CONDITION! I agree that we pain patients have a rough go of it just trying to live each day, let alone having to deal with all the hassle just to get the medication we NEED to have any quality of life. It breaks my heart to read that you are contemplating going to heroine or suicide just to end the torture. Please know you are not alone and I beg you to reconsider either or those options as a road you should travel. I pray you are able to get to a good pain doc who will help you and listen to you. Please post anytime you need encouragement, I know others will join with me in their support of you.

 

[Jlosnow]

Speedking- I haven't tried opana, I am on morphine sulfate ER 30 three times a day and they aren't helping very much so when I get my scripts Thursday I will be trying to use the liquid morphine guide here on bl to break the time release on my tabs and then start plugging.

 

[ShroomySatori]

I stopped it. The heroin. But I've been thinking. It started with the chronic pain. But it has become more than the pain. Never, ever again. What was I thinking?

I can't live without it. But I keep taking more. I need to moderate it. Needing more. I weaned down. Heroin then opium then hydromorphone now percocet. I've come a long way, but my spine pain is here to stay

I've been aware of this beast for a while now. What's the point of it all if you just need more and more? Toleranceeee... tripping

The depression. I've never cut myself before. My girlfriend said the same thing. I have scars. IT'S THE HEROIN I NEED TO ADMIT IT. It made me constipated. I've never been constipated. The rebound depression has been insane since I stopped. Sorry I'm tripping... 20mg 4-aco-dmt...

I really want to quit. I'm trying 30mg oxycodone a day now. But it's hard. I'm cheating. 40mg... fuck.

I think I've been doing it right though. First, no more H EVER. Then weaned myself down. Only oral consumption. Specific times of the day in specific doses. But once you've awakened that beast, it's a tough fight is all I can say.

 

[DixiChik]

Hey everyone...It's good to see activity on the PM thread...not that I'd wish chronic pain on mortal enemy!

WELCOME to the new members, though I empathize with your pain. It helps to have some place to talk and share experiences. I don't have answers, but I'm a good listener.

I exist in HELL as I search for some morsel of relief from basically lifelong pain. I resisted PM until almost 2 years ago. It just became impossible to push through without some help. I knew going in, that pain meds would cause my IBC to intensify. They have. As I type TMI, I've had no BM since last Wednesday, though I take Miralax daily, Senna, and Dulcolax...still nothing.

My story is LONG and not a fun read.(search my name if you like) I have ABSORPTION issues due to 1987 gastric bypass. I'm willing to listen to any helpful input for a better life through chemistry. I don't know how much longer I can continue to face every day with no hope of "better". I AM NOT willing to sedate myself into a comatose state for pain relief. I cannot deal with the deep depression of sedentary lifestyle, merely existing in a haze. Depression for me, is more deadly that the pain.

I need HELP and will offer HELP in any way I can. I'm here.

 

[Bliss26]

@RTP-I always start my month thinking I can control how many I take and yet every month I run out early.

We all do this Hun. It's so aggravating but when we're chronically undermedicated were almost set up to fail.
It's human nature when you have a full script and writhing in agony to take enough to stop the pain, because all you can think of is the right now

 

[ShroomySatori]

My spine hurts. The middle of my spine. It screams at me. I lost my job, my money... everything but the love of my life.

I self medicated for a while with weed and booze but it was stupid and it wasn't what I needed.

What happens when the solution to your problem becomes another problem in itself?

I have self control now. Percocet, in a way, it's abuse-proof for me. I notice the acetim-whatever, and I don't like it. I'm an everything organic type person apart from the meds. But no matter how much pain your in, don't fuck around with opiates. Or they'll start to fuck with you. Especially heroin, no matter how much pain you're in. Just never ever go near that stuff and I've only done 10 grams in my life, it messed me up really bad. Take meds as prescribed, even though let's admit it we're all fucking under-prescribed. It's like the script is a little tease. I will need them for as long as it hurts. But I need to learn to respect them more, the whole point being is I don't want my opiate tolerance to get any worse than it already is. It's already like... 6 times what it was last year.

Totally pissed off that I'm under-medicated too. It caused me so many problems! And it's life or death so I'm going to get the relief I need. I've come to hate the pills but what's the point of living a life of suffering? I can't suffer anymore.

And hi everyone. I don't know anybody other than me who has chronic pain. I'm too young to have this problem! It rules my life. I didn't even know it existed until I had it. I would have been more careful with my body! What the fuck happened to me? I kinda sorta want my life back...

I don't have any answers either... my life is a total mess and it's all because I can't handle being in agony all the time... the opiates are a gift and a curse, I need to find balance with them. Just enough for relief, to get me out of bed, but nothing more.

 

[Speed King]

I think I'll take my time with this. I hate to say it but 4,5/325 Percocet a day is simply not enough for me. Optimally 80mg/day would be great, but I'd be willing to try 4,10/325 a day.
Can someone tell me if basically asking to double my dose, would be escalating to quick. Unknown myself enough, where I believe that might work well.