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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Are animals really not equal?
- Thread starter psychedelicsoul
- Start date
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
No way, I have a very hard time sleeping if I'm hungry. Eventually the hunger fades but it takes more than one missed meal for that, for me. At least a third of all my nights I suddenly get hungry as I try to fall asleep and I have to get up and eat something.
Absolutely, great post.
quoted for truth!
how about an international foundation dedicated to expanding agricultural possibilities through GMO that's donation funded and doesn't do patents? right. the whole copyright system is more like to come down. the basic *useful* application would be finding new foods from specific climates and adapting them to grow well elsewhere. temperate banana trees. tropical radishes. etc
In what respect?
From my research, gmo's don't present any health problems over non-gmo, and the only problem I really have with them is Monsanto patenting them and making it illegal to re-use seed stock from the harvest of last years plants. And Monsanto's roundup ready product line that relays on lots of herbicides that prob aren't really that good for you in the long run.
But GMOs not designed for profit (by patents, or by resistance to certain herbicides, made by once again Monsanto) IMHO could help feed humanity in a future where the numbers don't add up as it is.
Yeah they're a business and they need to make a profit but there's a few ethical issues there.
Other than that I have no problems with GMOs.
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That's a similar model to what I have imagined what would be ethical GMOs for a while now
What 23
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2013
- Messages
- 3,905
I've considered that eventually humans might inherit full responsibility for our environment... That is, our world will be made by us simply so it can keep going. That we might mess it up so much or demand so much of it, it becomes need.
Superplants, perfectly digestible for us, and we'd be genengineered too... Modified like the planet.
Right now I don't like patents. I don't like herbicide ready crops that become drenched in it. I don't like that the company that made the chemical that my dad was exposed to has such an influence on food supply. There is talk that certain modifications and use of chemicals might be responsible for the rise in autism, cancers, etc. I think the practices are rape like. I don't like that GM plants cross pollinate with natural. It is irresponsible... and unforgivable.
I don't like being experimented on.
I choose all organic products, or those I can verify aren't GM/coated in chemicals.
Superplants, perfectly digestible for us, and we'd be genengineered too... Modified like the planet.
Right now I don't like patents. I don't like herbicide ready crops that become drenched in it. I don't like that the company that made the chemical that my dad was exposed to has such an influence on food supply. There is talk that certain modifications and use of chemicals might be responsible for the rise in autism, cancers, etc. I think the practices are rape like. I don't like that GM plants cross pollinate with natural. It is irresponsible... and unforgivable.
I don't like being experimented on.
I choose all organic products, or those I can verify aren't GM/coated in chemicals.
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methamaniac
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2014
- Messages
- 976
Not all animals are equal......
some taste better than others.
some taste better than others.
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
Indeed.
If animals were equal, more people would eat horses and ride snails.
I suspect that I'm not done and that I will settle on veganism. Currently, with my eating habits and my budget, it's too hard. So, I try to convince myself (like all meat eaters do) that there's nothing wrong with it. It's easier to function - and get to a place where I can make that change (I'm listening to Man in the Mirror by Michael Jackson) - if I maintain the delusion that I'm totally okay with what I'm doing. That's what the OP's OP was: an acknowledgement that it is wrong; followed by a distancing...
I worry that I will be swallowed up in the denial. And, at the same time, I worry that - as time goes on - I worry less... Like, I'm growing accustomed to the mask and forgetting my face. (I have to maintain that fear, I think, if I ever want to be truly free of this guilt, rather than endlessly postponing it.) By this point in my life, though, I don't actually think I will forget who I really am and get swallowed up into *whatever you want to call that hell*. I'm pretty fucking stubbornly stubborn.
I was happier - spiritually - eating a vegan diet.
But I didn't do it properly. It's not that it can't be done.
I'd rather sacrifice the little comfort I gain by denial - by postponing my guilt - if it means I don't contribute to the misconception that veganism can not be perfectly healthy... I can't contribute to the problem even more, just because I'm contributing to it in the first place.
The thing is I'm a drug addict. We all are.
I've been worse. Heroin. Meth. Alcoholism.
Now, I smoke weed. But, I'm still an addict.
If I'm going to be a functional vegan, and maintain that life-style, I need to get a bit more sober/functional.
And that makes me think I'm choosing marijuana over the ethical treatment of animals.
I don't need to think about that, at the moment. I'm getting there. I'll make up for it.
I care more about eating an animal-friendly diet than I do saving starving African children: the consumption of factory-farmed meats is harm that I am doing; and the latter is something I am not doing anything about.
I have this nagging thought that Tomorrow never comes.
But, I have faith that it will soon enough; "tomorrow," I think, "is on it's way."
It's all about faith. Everything is. How much I believe (or disbelieve) determines the outcome.
And, my faith outweighs my doubt.
-FEA
If animals were equal, more people would eat horses and ride snails.
I suspect that I'm not done and that I will settle on veganism. Currently, with my eating habits and my budget, it's too hard. So, I try to convince myself (like all meat eaters do) that there's nothing wrong with it. It's easier to function - and get to a place where I can make that change (I'm listening to Man in the Mirror by Michael Jackson) - if I maintain the delusion that I'm totally okay with what I'm doing. That's what the OP's OP was: an acknowledgement that it is wrong; followed by a distancing...
I worry that I will be swallowed up in the denial. And, at the same time, I worry that - as time goes on - I worry less... Like, I'm growing accustomed to the mask and forgetting my face. (I have to maintain that fear, I think, if I ever want to be truly free of this guilt, rather than endlessly postponing it.) By this point in my life, though, I don't actually think I will forget who I really am and get swallowed up into *whatever you want to call that hell*. I'm pretty fucking stubbornly stubborn.
I was happier - spiritually - eating a vegan diet.
But I didn't do it properly. It's not that it can't be done.
I'd rather sacrifice the little comfort I gain by denial - by postponing my guilt - if it means I don't contribute to the misconception that veganism can not be perfectly healthy... I can't contribute to the problem even more, just because I'm contributing to it in the first place.
The thing is I'm a drug addict. We all are.
I've been worse. Heroin. Meth. Alcoholism.
Now, I smoke weed. But, I'm still an addict.
If I'm going to be a functional vegan, and maintain that life-style, I need to get a bit more sober/functional.
And that makes me think I'm choosing marijuana over the ethical treatment of animals.
I don't need to think about that, at the moment. I'm getting there. I'll make up for it.
I care more about eating an animal-friendly diet than I do saving starving African children: the consumption of factory-farmed meats is harm that I am doing; and the latter is something I am not doing anything about.
I have this nagging thought that Tomorrow never comes.
But, I have faith that it will soon enough; "tomorrow," I think, "is on it's way."
It's all about faith. Everything is. How much I believe (or disbelieve) determines the outcome.
And, my faith outweighs my doubt.
-FEA
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Indeed.
If animals were equal, more people would eat horses and ride snails.
I suspect that I'm not done and that I will settle on veganism. Currently, with my eating habits and my budget, it's too hard. So, I try to convince myself (like all meat eaters do) that there's nothing wrong with it. It's easier to function - and get to a place where I can make that change (I'm listening to Man in the Mirror by Michael Jackson) - if I maintain the delusion that I'm totally okay with what I'm doing. That's what the OP's OP was: an acknowledgement that it is wrong; followed by a distancing...
-FEA
i can help with that - ghetto gourmet vegan meals.
neurotic
Bluelighter
from a, uh, philosophical or moral point of view, i don't think it (eating meat is right or not) matters at all. equal, not equal, that is all in our minds. we are kinda doomed to eat other carbon based life forms anyway, be it plants or other animals. and even if we manage to live and survive off man-made nutrients without killing anything, we will die anyway and be eaten by worms. and the cycle continues, i guess.
from a more practical point of view, it's hard to really tell if eating meat is really unsustainable and bad for the environment. i do believe though that, like other poster said, humans will end up having to be responsible for the entire environment at one point, if they wish to have such amount of 'power' over the world. with great power comes great responsability or something. it is kinda sad to think something like, idk, chickens being bred and dying only for the purpose of humans and all that stuff, but, yeah, it's either power over nature or go live in the jungle?
from an even more practical point of view, i would adopt a vegan diet (if there is any benefit to it and little harm, then why the hell not??) but i am just too fucking lazy. shit, like, you know
from a more practical point of view, it's hard to really tell if eating meat is really unsustainable and bad for the environment. i do believe though that, like other poster said, humans will end up having to be responsible for the entire environment at one point, if they wish to have such amount of 'power' over the world. with great power comes great responsability or something. it is kinda sad to think something like, idk, chickens being bred and dying only for the purpose of humans and all that stuff, but, yeah, it's either power over nature or go live in the jungle?
from an even more practical point of view, i would adopt a vegan diet (if there is any benefit to it and little harm, then why the hell not??) but i am just too fucking lazy. shit, like, you know
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
I'm not sure those are the only two options, these days.
But...
Yeah,
It's pretty fucking hard.
I think vegans should stop downplaying how difficult it is.
(Nice post, dude.)
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neurotic
Bluelighter
you're right lol opposite extremes of the spectrum i guess. i added the question mark because i didn't want it to sound imperative. i was trying to imply something like if you want animals and plants freely running around you can't really have this industrialization of food we have now, that makes food so easy to get. something analogous to choosing a MJ strain that fits your needs for THC/CBD ratio and flavour, and buying it at your will vs. let cannabis plants grow everywhere. but of course there can be balance.
and thanks for the feedback man
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no, its not hard to tell - its basic ecology. Okay, how about this - what kind of material would convince you? journal articles, what?
Sustainability of meat-based and plant-based diets and the environment
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
I think he meant in the long term.
dude, there ain't gone be no long term. that a plant based diet is drastically less taxing on the environment is established fact. seriously, i've never heard any argument to the contrary. there are ways to include meat, but not much. i ran the number myself, in addition to reading the articles.
and FYI, i love my food. i don't eat meat for the same reason you don't eat cats - its' nasty and unnecessary.
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
The jury is out as to whether or not the mass production of meat is sustainable long term, because you can't predict the future.
Meat isn't going away. We need to work out a way to live with it. And, I think we will.
I don't eat cats because it is illegal and there is no cat meat available.
I don't appreciate Western vegans/vegetarians referring to the consumption of cats as nasty.
Nor do I appreciate vegans/vegetarians telling me that eating a burger is the same as eating my domesticated animals, or my children.
History is full of people running numbers and making confident proclamations, only to end up being wrong.
My father is a mathematician (retired, now) and he too thinks he can predict the future.
Sure. Nobody is arguing against that.
But they both (meat and plant based diets) propose sustainability problems, though.
I'm not sure what numbers you ran, but did you take into account population growth?
(A certain sub-type of) Vegans spend a lot of time running around saying the sky is falling in.
But, maybe it isn't... you know?
Like I said, meat isn't going anywhere.
And, that's okay. We're going to be alright.
Calm down.
Meat isn't going away. We need to work out a way to live with it. And, I think we will.
I don't eat cats because it is illegal and there is no cat meat available.
I don't appreciate Western vegans/vegetarians referring to the consumption of cats as nasty.
Nor do I appreciate vegans/vegetarians telling me that eating a burger is the same as eating my domesticated animals, or my children.
History is full of people running numbers and making confident proclamations, only to end up being wrong.
My father is a mathematician (retired, now) and he too thinks he can predict the future.
Sure. Nobody is arguing against that.
But they both (meat and plant based diets) propose sustainability problems, though.
I'm not sure what numbers you ran, but did you take into account population growth?
(A certain sub-type of) Vegans spend a lot of time running around saying the sky is falling in.
But, maybe it isn't... you know?
Like I said, meat isn't going anywhere.
And, that's okay. We're going to be alright.
Calm down.
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
Cats are glorified vermin with bells on their collars. They murder native wildlife and serve no natural purpose.
I'd be all for grinding them up and feeding them to pigs to make more bacon.
I'd be all for grinding them up and feeding them to pigs to make more bacon.
ForEverAfter
Ex-Bluelighter
Ugh.
i ran the numbers when constructing the powerpoint for an ecological literacy course. (GREEN 101, basically), which was my punishment for dissing the geophysical ecology grad class (all the nitrogen cycles and crap, i wanted to do population ecology). truth: we produce enough food right now to feed everyone on earth a good plant based diet, we just don't distribute it. there is enough arable land to sustain up to 10 billion people indefinitely with a plant based diet. that doesn't take into account the oceans - if we managed them sensibly, those 10 billion people could have fish protein with one meal every day. yes, there are areas that can't grow crops but can support grazers, but we need the milk more than the meat. any other solution has rich people eating hamburgers and poor people starving. which is what will actually happen. man, i wish you could have it all - but it doesn't work that way. now try to imagine what would happen if every person in india and china used as much energy as the average american.....(that's the real problem - its fusion or die people)