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H&R Moderators: streaM Freak
Gluten free fad
- Thread starter nuttynutskin
- Start date
One Thousand Words
Bluelighter
I don't know. Gluten free chocolate brownies are fucking awesome
^ Brownies are good for gluten-free because there's a few ways to make em without any type of flour at all, but there are a bunch of gluten-free prepackaged foods that are virtually identical to the non-gluten-free versions except with some type of alternative grain that ends up borking the intended flavour.
Peanut butter cookies (no flour) and banana ice cream (no cream) are also good mmm
Because it's non-commital to pay the steep price for gluten-free foods that are just replacements for the original version made with wheat. It's like trying to quit smoking by telling yourself "only two cigs a day". People who have bad reactions obviously need to be explicit about it but people who are just doing the gluten-free diet for a lifestyle change aren't helping themselves by sitting on the fence eating mimicries of the same foods they ate before
Peanut butter cookies (no flour) and banana ice cream (no cream) are also good mmm
Because it's non-commital to pay the steep price for gluten-free foods that are just replacements for the original version made with wheat. It's like trying to quit smoking by telling yourself "only two cigs a day". People who have bad reactions obviously need to be explicit about it but people who are just doing the gluten-free diet for a lifestyle change aren't helping themselves by sitting on the fence eating mimicries of the same foods they ate before
nuttynutskin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 10,755
/\ I don't see what we disagree with other than petty semantics maybe.
It doesn't... People can eat whatever they want obviously. I just think it's silly for people to jump on the bandwagon who don't have a need to.
It doesn't... People can eat whatever they want obviously. I just think it's silly for people to jump on the bandwagon who don't have a need to.
Foreigner
Bluelight Crew
The Daoist diet (bigu) involves avoiding all grains. The modern explanation is that starchy grains proliferate harmful gut bacteria, and their byproducts degenerate the body prematurely. The ayurvedic diet is similar. So there are long-held explanations about how grains in general, including wheat, affect health.
Most people who are gluten intolerant are not true celiac, but they're sensitive to shitty north american wheat (and places that import it). I know many people with gluten sensitivity who have consumed gluten products while visiting Europe, which is a GMO free zone, and they did not react to that European wheat. There's also less gluten sensitivity / intolerance in Europe than in north america, as well as IBS and IBD. But good luck finding research on this... Monsanto controls the lion's share of global research in that department now.
IBD in north america has risen 300% in the past 10 years. Our food here is shit and it takes effort to eat cleanly. We don't even have a right to know what science experiments are being conducted on our food.
Most people who are gluten intolerant are not true celiac, but they're sensitive to shitty north american wheat (and places that import it). I know many people with gluten sensitivity who have consumed gluten products while visiting Europe, which is a GMO free zone, and they did not react to that European wheat. There's also less gluten sensitivity / intolerance in Europe than in north america, as well as IBS and IBD. But good luck finding research on this... Monsanto controls the lion's share of global research in that department now.
IBD in north america has risen 300% in the past 10 years. Our food here is shit and it takes effort to eat cleanly. We don't even have a right to know what science experiments are being conducted on our food.
Nom de Plume
Bluelighter
In the case of modern dietary trends, most people are not exactly jumping on the bandwagon. Indeed, the majority of people on the bandwagon didn't jump to get on it, rather they were persuaded to believe the fad was a fact—that the trend was the truth.
They ride on the bandwagon of the dernier cri in diets not because it is in vogue, but because they confuse vagaries for veracity.
Fads and trends don't exist by sheer coincidence anymore. Instead, they are intentionally manufactured, widely promulgated, and highly popularised for a profit. Not much is as lucrative as the retailing of ready-made and prepackaged lifestyles or capitalising off commodified social conventions.
And nowhere is this fact of capitalism more apparent than in the trillion-dollar business of public health. Why waste more time and gain less money from discovering facts to market when one can simply create them?
For example, if one is in the asparagus business and money comes at a snail's pace, why go through the trouble of attracting consumers by finding and advertising actual benefits of eating asparagus, when lying that asparagus is healthy and worth buying is so much more convenient and works just as well to boost sales?
It is much more profitable and viable and time-efficient than conducting careful scientific research to discover real, evidence-based health advice, obviously.
The man who has got more vegetables than he knows what to do with soon finds it in his best interest to promote vegetarianism and ballyhoo the supremacy and importance of a vegetable-inclusive diet.
If the profiteers are good enough liars, they can eventually convince the majority of consumers that they're marketing proven facts rather than patent fictions. So, the consumer begins to buy the bullshit out of a desire to be healthy rather than out of a yearning to be hip.
Moreover, since most consumers are capricious and lazy rather than rational and motivated, they seldom investigate the malarkey that's being marketed. Soon, the whole thing becomes so distended by drivel and turgid with twaddle that nobody can readily extricate the facts from the flummery, to the benefit of big business.
I'm not a fan of GMOs either but I think it's far too soon to assign blame when the proliferation of GMOs in the food supply is a relatively recent chain of events. Much of our unprocessed food is clean and safe, possibly with the exception of fertilizer content but that factor exists for European foods as well. Wheat is a tricky one though because there are a number of varieties that can be grown and processing it into flour is a fairly meticulous process, and so the end result is a wide variety of gluten concentrations from one wheat product to the next.
Of course, the government subsidization of agricultural products typically leads to the consolidation of resources, which encourages more food to go through industrial processing techniques and destroys the farmers' ability to compete using age-old techniques. So really the blame falls on dipshit governments across the world that have destroyed the agricultural industry (ironically, agricultural protectionism is what is currently stalling the TPP talks) in similar fashion to how they are currently destroying the global economy via interest rate manipulation.
So in conclusion, we're fucked because we keep voting for the fucks that keep fucking us.
Whosajiggawaaa
Bluelighter
yeah gluten aint that bad.
socko
Bluelighter
Celiac disease is the medical condition in which people have a dangerous reaction to the gluten found in wheat. It's an autoimmune disorder and it's genetic. It is thought to only affect people of Northern European ancestry (almost exclusively Scandinavian and maybe British). According to the Center for Disease Control, roughly 1 in 100 people suffer from celiac disease, and that's how it has been for decades. It's usually diagnosed with a biopsy of tissue from the small intestine if I recall. If it is never diagnosed, it can be debilitating and deadly.
But now, strangely, everybody you know suddenly can no longer eat anything with gluten in it. Even weirder, they are mostly all in the USA (and to a lesser extent in a few other english speaking countries) and of upper middle class socioeconomic background. You can probably figure out what's going on. I'm not claiming a few people have sensitivities to other things in wheat including pesticides, but there's not really any scientific evidence I know of to back that up to the extent to which we are seeing the spread of hysterical gluten sensitivity.
But now, strangely, everybody you know suddenly can no longer eat anything with gluten in it. Even weirder, they are mostly all in the USA (and to a lesser extent in a few other english speaking countries) and of upper middle class socioeconomic background. You can probably figure out what's going on. I'm not claiming a few people have sensitivities to other things in wheat including pesticides, but there's not really any scientific evidence I know of to back that up to the extent to which we are seeing the spread of hysterical gluten sensitivity.
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Nom de Plume
Bluelighter
Well, whenever I see a politician on the ballet without an ulterior agenda to fuck anyone or everyone, I'll be sure to register as a voter again, tout de suite.
But it just so happens that candidate A is invariably unremarkable in terms of their differences between candidate B, C, or Z.
The only appreciable disparity between the donkey and the elephant is their particular stances on irrelevant social issues: gay marriage, abortion, women's rights, and so forth.
But on geopolitics, environmental protection, the cult of representative democracy, unfettered corporate psychopathy, perpetual war and quasi-Colonialism on a hitherto unforseen Global scale,
and the precipitous declination and disquieting erosion of liberty—and other important issues—everybody is no different whatsoever.
And yes, we're fucked. Terribly fucked.
DrGreenthumb
Bluelighter
There's so much bullshit in this thread it's stupid. Why do you people just make stuff up, try to sound like some kind of expert blaming your pet hate GMO foods or insecticides or whatever & blame it on fads. It's incredibly insulting.
Why don't you guys share your important research from artisan bakers & general internet nutjobs with specialist doctors in the field that have made it their life's work to study it?
Coeliac is a real, serious disease, it's slowly killing my father in ways worse than you can imagine. It's made my life hell for over 5 years. I wish I could eat what I wanted, I wish it was just a fad, but it's a horrible disease that makes me scared to eat any food that anybody else has prepared.
We don't know how many people have it. A lot of the research on it is fairly recent & a lot more needs to be done. A very large proportion of people have genes that mean they could develop coeliac. It's not just the USA, or Northern Europe, there are coeliacs all over the world, I know African & Indian coeliacs, several traditional cultures avoid wheat, barley, oats & rye because there are a high proportion of coeliacs.
My Dad has gluten ataxia, gluten has caused an immune response in his brain that has caused his immune system to kill his brain, starting with the parts that control balance & movement. He can't walk, he's incontinent, he has dementia, he needs 24hr nursing care, as it progresses he'll slowly lose the ability to move at all. Why don't you tell his doctor, Mr Hadjivassiliou, that it's all just a fad & he'll be fine if he eats sour dough or whatever the trendy bullshit is this week.
http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/GlutenAtaxia/a/What-Is-Gluten-Ataxia.htm
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/74/9/1221.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787912
Why don't you guys share your important research from artisan bakers & general internet nutjobs with specialist doctors in the field that have made it their life's work to study it?
Coeliac is a real, serious disease, it's slowly killing my father in ways worse than you can imagine. It's made my life hell for over 5 years. I wish I could eat what I wanted, I wish it was just a fad, but it's a horrible disease that makes me scared to eat any food that anybody else has prepared.
We don't know how many people have it. A lot of the research on it is fairly recent & a lot more needs to be done. A very large proportion of people have genes that mean they could develop coeliac. It's not just the USA, or Northern Europe, there are coeliacs all over the world, I know African & Indian coeliacs, several traditional cultures avoid wheat, barley, oats & rye because there are a high proportion of coeliacs.
My Dad has gluten ataxia, gluten has caused an immune response in his brain that has caused his immune system to kill his brain, starting with the parts that control balance & movement. He can't walk, he's incontinent, he has dementia, he needs 24hr nursing care, as it progresses he'll slowly lose the ability to move at all. Why don't you tell his doctor, Mr Hadjivassiliou, that it's all just a fad & he'll be fine if he eats sour dough or whatever the trendy bullshit is this week.
http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/GlutenAtaxia/a/What-Is-Gluten-Ataxia.htm
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/74/9/1221.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787912
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socko
Bluelighter
It is absolutely a fad. Until 10 years ago, it was very difficult to find gluten free foods. I have had to do this for somebody I know who has the real disease and almost died from it. You had to research the ingredients of everything you ate. Even things like rice could be contaminated if you bought the wrong kind. Some brands for whatever reason add wheat gluten to their rice. Bread, pasta, flour, beer, etc are all out of the question. The one good thing that has come out of the fad is that it is much easier for REAL celiac patients to locate gluten-free foods since every grocery store in the US now has a special section devoted to them (certified to be 100% gluten free).
I have no idea if the thread starter knows what celiac (sprue) disease is, but the point of the thread is that in the US and other english speaking countries is this: nearly EVERYBODY YOU KNOW SUDDENLY HAS CELIAC disease! It's now an epidemic that started around 10 years ago.
Every mid to large city now has dozens of shops and restaurants that are 100% gluten free. They became popular around 10 years ago. Those of us who know what celiac disease is also know it is not very common in the US (around 1 in 100 according to the Center for Disease control).
So when all your friends and aunts and uncles suddenly claim to have it, even though you have watched them eating a wheat-based diet their whole life with no harmful reaction, it makes the real Celiac patients like you and your father look like they are faking.
I have no idea if the thread starter knows what celiac (sprue) disease is, but the point of the thread is that in the US and other english speaking countries is this: nearly EVERYBODY YOU KNOW SUDDENLY HAS CELIAC disease! It's now an epidemic that started around 10 years ago.
Every mid to large city now has dozens of shops and restaurants that are 100% gluten free. They became popular around 10 years ago. Those of us who know what celiac disease is also know it is not very common in the US (around 1 in 100 according to the Center for Disease control).
So when all your friends and aunts and uncles suddenly claim to have it, even though you have watched them eating a wheat-based diet their whole life with no harmful reaction, it makes the real Celiac patients like you and your father look like they are faking.
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Kittycat5
Bluelighter
Nom de plume said it nicely with they confuse the vagaries for veracity. And socko is exactly right. 10 years ago people with celiac disease or gluten allergy had a hell of a time finding foods they can eat. Now there are websites and apps telling you what is ok, entire sections of grocery stores dedicated to gluten-free and restaurants serving only gluten free options. It certainly is not because they became for sensitive to the plight of sufferers of celiac disease, it is because the population at large bought into gluten free equating to healthier.
If I remember correctly, there was a landmark paper written that was one of the main scientific justification for the masses not to eat gluten. But they went back and reviewed their data and stated their original conclusions were wrong.
If I remember correctly, there was a landmark paper written that was one of the main scientific justification for the masses not to eat gluten. But they went back and reviewed their data and stated their original conclusions were wrong.
socko
Bluelighter
A lot of people look up to Miley Cyrus for advice on healthy eating:
nuttynutskin
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 10,755
Yeah, I do although I had sort of forgotten about it. I was hesitant to respond to DrGreen because this thread obviously touched a personal nerve, but I suppose for the last time I will say...
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT PEOPLE WITH CELIAC DISEASE. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT YOUR 55 YEAR OLD PARENT THAT'S EATEN BREAD ALL OF THEIR LIFE THROWING OUT ANYTHING THAT HAS GLUTEN IN IT, RUNNING DOWN TO THE GROCERY STORE AND REPLACING IT WITH GLUTEN FREE SHIT.
cashfl0w_d0nkey
Bluelight Crew
Who is anyone in this thread to talk down on other people's dietary choices? I'm seeing an awful lot of over-reliance on scientific literature in this thread for a field of inquiry that is extremely complicated and only somewhat understood by modern science (nutrition). If people think gluten is the source of their problems but it is really blood sugar spikes or some other abnormality that manifests in physical discomfort and is corrected when they eat a gluten-free diet, so be it. Who is anyone in this thread to criticize them for it? The most important thing in nutrition is to pay attention to your body and the signals it provides and a lot of people in this thread would have you believe that you're a moron if you cut out gluten without being gluten intolerant or sensitive.
Nom de Plume
Bluelighter
MOD EDIT: No need to be condescending to others. It is possible to argue without verbal name calling or brow beating. We don't need a hostile learning environment.
You're critical of people's opinions because their opinions are critical of people's opinions. Logically speaking, Person X's (i.e., your) use of civil liberties to express criticism of person Y's (i.e., any gluten-free food critic's) use of civil liberties to express criticism of person Z's (i.e., any gluten-free food advocate's) use of civil liberties is a flagrant logical contradiction and example of patent hypocrisy.
Not only that, the use of civil liberties to make the choice to personally critique one's use of civil liberties to engage in a discussion to express their personal critique of another's decision on how best to personally use civil liberties has the intrinsic result of the annihilation of the whole essential of the notion of a civil liberty onto which it (your argument) predicates its critique of the aforementioned discussion in the first place.
That is, the implication of the claim contradicts the claim.
This is because it results in an infinite regress of critiquing critiques critiquing critiques about critiquing a particular use of civil liberties. Thus Person X (namely, you)—as self-appointed defender and fervent champion of unquestionable individuality—is left with the embarrassing perverse effect of logically invalidating the position of nobody but that of his own, as the contention (namely, the sanctity of individual liberty) is contradicted by the context and the means through which it is articulated.
It is quite stupid and terribly annoying: the mush-headed precept that the use of civil liberties to participate in discussion, debate, criticism, or simple expression of personal views and opinion immediately becomes inappropriate, unjustified, unnecessary, impermissible, inconsiderate, invalid, or indecorous as soon as they begin to touch upon a matter of other individuals' particular uses of their civil liberties.
One has their druthers to do as they please and in much the same way as I have my druthers to think they're as stupid and misguided as I please. Hence, nobody here but you is attacking the prerogative of anyone. They're merely of the opinion that the sole basis for the decision onto which a particular way one exercises those rights is irrationality and ignorance.
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socko
Bluelighter
Wouldn't you rather know the truth before jumping into some fad diet? What if the cause of your digestive problems is the highly processed white flour in white bread and many pastas that's giving you a bad reaction? Instead of going 'gluten free,' just reduce the amount of Wonder Bread, Velveeta, and whatever other junk food bread and candy breakfast cereal you might be eating. It is very unlikely that gluten itself would cause blood sugar spikes. These are usually caused by simple sugars and highly refined white flour. This is well-known to science. The effect of eating highly refined white flour is similar to a celiac reaction in some ways - it causes fatigue (from the blood sugar spike and crash) and makes some people feel bad. Instead of cutting all gluten (including all wheat based bread and pasta), why not just cut out the highly refined white bread that is known to cause blood sugar problems in many people?
Just switch to whole grain bread and add more variety to the pasta you eat. Whole grain pastas. When you eat Ramen noodles, balance it by adding vegetables, tofu, meats, etc. When you eat white flour products, balance it with whole grains and proteins that will prevent the blood sugar spike.
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cashfl0w_d0nkey
Bluelight Crew
Lol.
My post had nothing to imply that people should or shouldn't be allowed to say certain things. I was challenging the authority of those launching the criticisms of other people's diets. My post was self-righteous and confrontational and I fully admit that. Self-righteousness is in my view acceptable if you or someone you care about is being attacked unfairly.
I find your attitude in this post particularly ironic because while you appear to be trying to argue philosophically, the bulk of your post is angry name calling.