son's overdose

[lildeb649]

I stumbled across your site as I was looking for answers on my sons overdose. A year ago yesterday we buried my youngest son 32, from an overdose of Heroin and Klonopin.....maybe the questions I have cant be answered I am not sure...He was prescribed Klonopin from a doctor after already misusing a previous prescription of Klonopin and Ativan...I know there are quite a few opiate addicts that have found this combination to be the ultimate high...why would a doctor re up the script if the first scripts were misused and plus knowing my son was a recovering heroin addict....he had been out of rehab 3 weeks when he died after getting his first paycheck and refilling the script for the klonopin...please somebody help me understand the draw of this lethal combination

 

[mostly-human]

Hi, I am very sorry for your loss. We can't know the mind of the doctor, but it's not uncommon for known addicts (known to the doctor, as addicts) to be prescribed benzos (like Klonopin). Whilst they have a very high abuse potential and can be extremely dangerous, or fatal as in your sons case, they can also be used very effectively to treat symptoms of withdrawal. So doctors can be known to prescribe to addicts, to ease discomfort. But then, some doctors just over prescribe these drugs. The reality is the amount of deaths each year, that indicate benzos as a factor, is very high. In Australia they're cracking down quite heavily on these sorts of prescriptions; they're a lot harder to come by now. I'm not sure where you come from, but in a lot of countries this class of drug has been over prescribed for a long time and in many countries it still is.

 

[herbavore]

Hello, I am a mother that also lost my youngest son to an overdose. I am so sorry for your loss and your enduring pain. I understand both the desire for answers and the knowledge that no answers will really make any difference at all. As far as why the doctor did what he/she did it could be anything from an uncaring doctor to a situation in which your son convinced him or her that he was clean and the klonopin was to be used for maintaining sobriety from heroin. I will leave the answers about why this combination is such a draw to people that have experienced it but I would like to invite you to experience the support this forum can give. We are a community that includes people from all walks of life and more than a few share our situation as parents. People here have helped me understand many things that I had no exposure to previously and they have done this with sensitivity and compassion. Please feel free to private message me if you want to. Again, I am so sorry.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I wouldn't be too quick to blame just the klonopin. Mixing opiates and benzos is common but equally what is just as common are addicts overdosing from their first hit after coming out of rehab due to a lowering of their tolerance. If you are using this combination daily it is easier to balance the two, but even after a relatively short break it is more difficult to judge how strong the herion may have effected him.

While I understand as a parent the need for answers and perhaps comfort in wanting to point the finger at his doctor, ultimately it was your son's choice to seek out using heroin again. A doctor can only prescribe in good faith that the consenting adult who is his or her patient is in return honest with them to their intentions. Perhaps he wouldn't have received another script if he had told of his plans to continue using herion, but then again your son may have turn to heroin for relief if his symptoms were not treated.

 

[pinpoint]

The draw is that these two drugs (opioids & benzodiazepines) synergize to create an enhanced effect or high. Unfortunately for your son they also strongly potentiate CNS depression.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I am sorry for your loss.

 

[lildeb649]

Thank you for your reply....alot of confusion as to why Dr would prescribe these med aftER knowing his history....guess it's my mother's heart looking for answers....I have Been told this combo can be quite euphoric.....and withdrawal from it can be next to impossible.....btw thank you for your condolences

 

[motiv311]

Your son was at an age and experience to where he was quite aware of his actions.... Anytime a person mixes anything with heroin, especially benzodiazepines (downers) , they are synergistically getting the ultimate junkies high ; and they are risking death, every user knows this.

its basically a roll of the dice, and the fact that he had just got out of rehab; basically thats how life is , it gives you a way out - and then when you refuse to make use of that exit - life just lets you go, because you gave up the ghost.

 

[cj]

Addicts are pretty good at playing doctors to give us what we want. He probably just lied to the doctor. If I was you I would be asking the rehab what kind of treatment they offered him. Did they counsel him on the danger of overdose from lowered tolerance after treatment? The two biggest factors in dying from opiates is recent abstinance and combo with benzos. A really good article that you should read is titled "dying to be free" by the huffington post. My condolences for your loss

 

[Ksa]

Thank you for your reply....alot of confusion as to why Dr would prescribe these med aftER knowing his history....guess it's my mother's heart looking for answers....I have Been told this combo can be quite euphoric.....and withdrawal from it can be next to impossible.....btw thank you for your condolences

I'm sorry for your loss. Doctors can find themselves in a very difficult situation, especially if Klonopin was used to treat a serious condition. I assume that the doctor thought that the risks associated with quitting Klonopin were serious enough. While Klonopin can potentiate Heroin, I am not convinced that Klonopin abuse was in any way related to your son's tragic death. Was a Klonopin pill count performed and if so, what was the (pills left)/(days left) ratio on his prescription?

If this ratio is close to 1, it is very likely that Heroin abuse was the sole cause of death. If the ratio is 0.75, still, no conclusions about Klonopin can be drawn. But if the ratio is below 0.5, such as 0.35 or 0.25, for assurance Klonopin abuse played an important role in his death.

We cannot say for sure until we know the (pills left)/(days left) ratio post-mortem.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Sad to hear. RIP to your son.

 

[rhun]

Sending this over to TDS.

 

[pbuilder]

I'm sorry for your loss. Doctors can find themselves in a very difficult situation, especially if Klonopin was used to treat a serious condition. I assume that the doctor thought that the risks associated with quitting Klonopin were serious enough. While Klonopin can potentiate Heroin, I am not convinced that Klonopin abuse was in any way related to your son's tragic death. Was a Klonopin pill count performed and if so, what was the (pills left)/(days left) ratio on his prescription?

If this ratio is close to 1, it is very likely that Heroin abuse was the sole cause of death. If the ratio is 0.75, still, no conclusions about Klonopin can be drawn. But if the ratio is below 0.5, such as 0.35 or 0.25, for assurance Klonopin abuse played an important role in his death.

We cannot say for sure until we know the (pills left)/(days left) ratio post-mortem.

Not sure what you are going out about with those random ratios lol, acting as if 20mgs+ of klonopin would be needed to cause an overdose in combonation with heroin. Even 2-4mgs of klonopin can push a nodding dose of heroin into a deadly one.

I am so sorry for your loss lildeb649.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I think he is talking about working out if he was abusing his pills by comparing the number of pills he should have taken according to his prescription by the number remaining.

 

[Runtoparadise]

^Regardless, it's a very, very sad day that a child passes before his parents. A mothers love knows no bounds, RIP dearly loved son

Rtp

 

[mostly-human]

I wouldn't be too quick to blame just the klonopin. Mixing opiates and benzos is common but equally what is just as common are addicts overdosing from their first hit after coming out of rehab due to a lowering of their tolerance..

Hi, I don't want to cause a fight in such a sensitive thread, but I also want to point out that the indication of benzos is probably the real issue here. A recent Australian study revealed only 5% over heroin ODs had involved testing positive only for heorin, the vast majority indicated further suppressants; predominately benzos and/or alcohol, but also others such as GHB.

You need to have a huge amount of heroin to OD and die, without any other factors, generally a straight-heroin OD means vomit and feeling awful and possibly passing out. I have OD'd on heroin numerous times (requiring CPR/NARCAN/AMBULANCE) and EVERY single time it has involved benzos.

Whilst it's true, an OD can often happen after relapsing, it's often also from drinking/taking benzos and then taking a does of heroin far exceeding what you can handle. Heroin addicts get used to being able to take their dose regardless of their alcohol/benzo intake, but being clean for a bit removes this barrier to OD'n that regular use creates.

Regarding the draw - beyond the obvious, the reason so many (myself included) take such a combination, knowingly - I think it's because heroin addicts are already making that decision, people don't go from being happy in life, being careful and safety-conscious to injecting heroin, I think heroin addicts are *often* already in a dark place and I've known a couple people to die from the combination of heroin/benzos and I REALLY REALLY struggle to know in my heart whether or not it qualifies as suicide, it's so close in terms of masochism that in most cases, it's a very blurry line.

Very sorry if this is more upsetting, I lost my sister, in my arms, when I was 17, she was 15, I carry that with me always and I know too my mothers pain of losing her daughter. I really can't even begin to comprehend your experience, so I truly am sorry that you've gone through this and I hope one day, maybe in a long time, you find some peace with your sons decisions.

 

[williamclarkonet]

I stumbled across your site as I was looking for answers on my sons overdose. A year ago yesterday we buried my youngest son 32, from an overdose of Heroin and Klonopin.....maybe the questions I have cant be answered I am not sure...He was prescribed Klonopin from a doctor after already misusing a previous prescription of Klonopin and Ativan...I know there are quite a few opiate addicts that have found this combination to be the ultimate high...why would a doctor re up the script if the first scripts were misused and plus knowing my son was a recovering heroin addict....he had been out of rehab 3 weeks when he died after getting his first paycheck and refilling the script for the klonopin...please somebody help me understand the draw of this lethal combination

I'm so sorry for your lose. The doctor is a moron there are good people and bad people in all professions even doctors he should never have prescribed benzos knowing he is an addict and abuses heroin that combo is EXTREMELY dangerous you should sue the doctor for negligence and malpractice!

 

[Ksa]

Even 2-4mgs of klonopin can push a nodding dose of heroin into a deadly one.

To a normal individual. To an individual with health issues where 2-4mgs Klonopin is used to make the person normal, how can you ever conclude that lol? You assume the doctor prescribed Klonopin so he could abuse it.

 

[JessFR]

I stumbled across your site as I was looking for answers on my sons overdose. A year ago yesterday we buried my youngest son 32, from an overdose of Heroin and Klonopin.....maybe the questions I have cant be answered I am not sure...He was prescribed Klonopin from a doctor after already misusing a previous prescription of Klonopin and Ativan...I know there are quite a few opiate addicts that have found this combination to be the ultimate high...why would a doctor re up the script if the first scripts were misused and plus knowing my son was a recovering heroin addict....he had been out of rehab 3 weeks when he died after getting his first paycheck and refilling the script for the klonopin...please somebody help me understand the draw of this lethal combination

First I would like to say how sorry I am, I've experienced loss, but I can't imagine how painful this must have been and still be for you, I'm so sorry.

None of us can tell you why the doctor made the decision he made, many addicts become very good at lying and manipulating doctors for their own ends, I am certainly not innocent of manipulating doctors and deceiving them to obtain drugs. Or perhaps he was simply negligent, or maybe it was simple human misjudgement. All three are common. Only the doctor responsible could possibly give you the answer.

Combining Benzodiazapine's like klonopin with opioids like heroin is fairly common, and extremely dangerous. They potentate each other, meaning they can increase the pleasurable effects of the drug. However benzodiazapines can also ease the withdrawal symptoms. As someone else said, it is also very possible that his overdose was caused due to a significant decrease of his tolerance. So many addicts have died shortly after leaving rehab not fully appreciating how much less tolerant they are to dosages that previously would have amounted to very little. It's something that really must be emphasised upon leaving rehab. As such it's not impossible he would have died without the klonopin at all.

As for why he did it, the addicted mind is very good at drawing you back into using, especially with opiates, which is the class of drug I have the most experience with as far as addiction goes. Maybe in his mind he felt like celebrating or that he earned it, or maybe he felt depressed, or just felt like he desperately wanted to use, or perhaps he felt this time he would be able to control his usage. Once again, all are common. The addicted mind will come up with any and every excuse to use more. Heroin can make you feel so good when you feel so down, For an addict experiencing all the pains life can bring, especially while in withdrawal or post acute withdrawal syndrome, which itself can bring upon depression, the peace that heroin gives your mind can be too tempting to resist.

I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes, but I do know the other side. I'll never forget the look in my mothers eyes when I was brought to hospital having overdosed, it's one of the only things I do remember from that event, everything else is a blur from moments after I used to waking up in the hospital. Depression makes you selfish, as does addiction, it's easy to forget how much harm your own death would bring to those that you love and who love you.

But it's not impossible to go through withdrawal, or to stay clean, so long as you want it bad enough.

I hope any of what I or the others here have said might help you better understand your sons death, and again I'm truly sorry.

Take care.

 

[herbavore]

I have found that asking for answers concerning my son's death leads me in loops. These questions consumed me for a long time. It was how and why I joined Bluelight. I wanted to ask other people that used drugs in the same way that he did what could have drawn him to such risk, to such a dangerous dose. He had a lot of information and that lead me to also question what mostly-human touched on in post #16. I shared his toxicology report with a couple of people on here asking whether someone that was educated about dosages and combinations etc would ever take what he did without it being an intentional or even passively intentional OD. Four years later, these questions remain but they do not plague me. I just miss him. I know you feel the same. Missing is the one authentic feeling and it is so raw and so constant that it is difficult to allow it in its breadth and depth. I have learned that what helps me the most is to let myself go there frequently and alone. In that place the questions fall away, the stories fall away, my projections or theories fall away and I sit with the full presence of the absence of someone I will never stop loving. I wish you peace in finding what works for you.