Confederate flag on state property/on state flags?

[Droppersneck]

When I was in HS in GA this was our state flag

and then was changed to some generic nonsense flag nobody liked. Now the Georgia flag is pretty nice but just not the same. This is GAs current flag based of the OG flag of the confederacy

I personally do not see it as a symbol of hate but one of pride of heritage and that comes with the good and bad.



MS and SC still incorporate it in their state flags but now media hype has made it out to be the reason for the massacre by that evil kid in Charleston. I prefer the uniquely southern state flags, but I can certainly see where people take issue mainly due to all the hate groups out there adopting the battle flag as their own. I think it should be voted on during elections and not just changed b/c it is the political scape goat and talking point for main stream news and its cohorts. MS voted on a change in 2001 and it was shot down. If the people want them changed let it be decided by the ballot not media sensationalism and attention seeking hypersensitivity imo

 

[Bardeaux]

The flag we're all familiar with is the battle flag used by General Lee, not the official flag of the confederacy. Nevertheless, all confederate flags represent treason against the united states. That's what the confederacy was by any textbook definition. Regardless of the racial aspects of the flag (which imo are even more important), this "symbol of heritage" is really just a symbol of treason against the United States. If you're cool with that, then whatever. Fly it in your yard. However, do those wanting the flags to remain on public property not see the irony behind flying a rebel flag along side the US flag that the confederacy fought so hard to escape from?

 

[nuttynutskin]

IDK if this is slightly off topic, but here a few bands that have used the flag. AFAIK none of them were psychopathic killers that hated black people...

 

[Bardeaux]

It's almost as if it were a shtick.....

Can't be a "southern rock" band without a confederate flag in the background. You're better off playing in Texas without a fiddle in the band

Likewise, hipsters like to wear Che Guevara tshirts. Very few of them are probably anti-capitalists who are willing to travel the world to fight in jungles.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I guess it could be seen as that, or what I've said before... Just represents a love for The South and Southern heritage.

Don't get me started on the college students wearing Che shirts while sipping on their Starbucks Frappuccinos tho. Really sticking it to the man there. HA!

 

[SvnLyrBrto]

"symbol of heritage"? Yeah, and the swastika is just a Tibetan good luck charm. (TY Robin Williams.) No government should be endorsing that shit. The inbred bigots of the world should still, of course, have the free speech rights to show off their loathsome nature. But it should be gone from any and every government facility, institution, or product.

Of course, in this particular case, I agree that it just a distraction. Everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room: the fact that this unhinged whack job was able to get access to firearms, without which he'd never have been able to do the deed. Take the confederate flag down from the state house, and the murderous racist is still a murderous racist. Take the gun out of the equation and maybe he could have stabbed one person before the next dozen whacked him upside the head and beat him down.

 

[drug_mentor]

I guess it could be seen as that, or what I've said before... Just represents a love for The South and Southern heritage.

Don't get me started on the college students wearing Che shirts while sipping on their Starbucks Frappuccinos tho. Really sticking it to the man there. HA!

Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but I find it interesting, you are really opposed to flag burning because the US flag means something specific to you, so you see burning it as offensive. Lots of people find the confederate flag offensive because of what it represents. Yet, you say that for you, the confederate flag "just" represents a love for the South.

Don't you think there is a decent possibility, that those who burn the US flag feel it represents something different for them than it does for you? Perhaps for them, the US flag "just" represents the Government, and does not represent the people/nation. Just something to think about.

More on topic, I don't see the sense in the reactionary demonising of a flag like this, to me that is just as silly as getting bent out of shape over people burning a flag. It has been perfectly acceptable all this time, but now because one kid goes nuts it is too offensive? I do understand why people see it as a racist symbol, but I have a hard time imagining people are more offended by it now than they were a fortnight ago. Although I can understand government officials wanting to distance themselves from it, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

I just read E-Bay, Amazon, Walmart and Sears are going to stop selling confederate flag related merchandise. To me that is an overreaction, and I suspect these companies are really just abusing a tragedy in order to get some positive PR for themselves.

 

[Droppersneck]

I'd be offended I someone burned the confederate flag but I would support their right to do so. When I think about it while ga had the best state flag their new flag is pretty darn cool. The battle flag is okay but the flag of the confederacy is the true symbol of the south. People just like the stars and bars Bc of how cool it looks and all the rebellious nature associated with it. This public outcry against the flag will sadly only promote a resurgence imo

 

[Kenickie]

I guess it could be seen as that, or what I've said before... Just represents a love for The South and Southern heritage.

there are only three things that make up 'southern heritage' and that is

the shame of treason

the black experience

the genocide of native americans

i don't think you 'love' any of those (because honestly, who does?) and thats ok because we know what you really mean is you are a racist and love that representation of the south vis a vis this nonsense flag. everything else 'southern' is so ancillary. i could reframe those three things if they aren't clear enough though.

the sin of slavery and the willingness to commit treason (and the rabid desire to subjugate mexico, cuba, etc because they weren't happy with the long shipping times between africa and here)

the unending terrifying nightmare and agonizing pain of black experience

the defilement and humiliation and genocide of native american lives, sacred relics and experience (where's the biggest confederate memorial? oh right, on top of a sacred indian site)

take it down for christsakes. what the fuck is this? oh right. chattel slavery ended exactly 150 years ago this year (juneteenth). six generations ago. hopefully by the time i'm dead america will be at like the place where other advanced countries are now.

 

[Droppersneck]

Tbf your opinion is as biased as anyone else's here being southern. I personally think of the allman bros, oak trees canopies, home cooking, independence, fighting for what is yours minus the slavery part lol, etc etc... I can see how it is upsetting to some I agree with taking off state grounds but I think the state flags should be voted on by the people. Lame generic flatizza flags are for Yankees ours carry history, pride, and meaning. That being said behind ga TN is my favorite state flag. Kenny I can really appreciate your position being a double minority but I say look at it objectively 99% of us do not look at it in terms of race or racist history especially millenials

 

[Kenickie]

Tbf your opinion is as biased as anyone else's here being southern. I personally think of the allman bros, oak trees canopies, home cooking, independence, fighting for what is yours minus the slavery part lol, etc etc

except there is no 'minus the slavery part' since that's what they were fighting for. no idea oak trees were represented by stars and bars. as a life long southerner i just had no clue. maybe just the oak trees with dead bodies swinging from them? ahhh now you're on to something.

ours carry history, pride, and meaning.

like i said - it means three things. shame of treason, shitty black experience, and the genocide of native americans. yeah carries the history of it, but are you seriously proud of that? don't answer that. i know the answer already.

99% of us do not look at it in terms of race or racist history especially millenials

this millennial who just killed 9 black people to protect the white race

 

[Droppersneck]

Kenny the fact that the murderer was in a picture with a confederate flag does nothing for me. Hate groups and many other factions have used the flag for various reasons in the past. The truth is once this history is erased by liberal textbook writers the progressives will go after the next thing deemed offensive by the professionally offended. All I'm saying is let the flags be voted on. Black people make up a large part of the pop down there and if enough people feel so passionately about it then have it changed, but don't just do it as a knee jerk reaction.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on our great state of Georgia's current flag? You realize it is the flag of the confederacy it just doesn't look as cool as the battle flag imo. Of course most of my friends in Albany still have the og Georgia flag on the front of their trucks 1953-2001

 

[Kenickie]

lol can you even tell me what the civil war was fought over?

thought not.


erasing history indeed. it's hilarious because otherwise it would be depressing. i've never met so many people so proud to be so fucking stupid. like, do you also support apartheid? do you deny the holocaust? because if you answered yes to any of those questions people would refuse to associate with you. but was the civil war about states rights? can get you a governor's seat.

the best piece of georgia flag history

[video]http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4516192/1993-state-state-miller-georgia-flag[/video]

 

[One Thousand Words]

Not every southerner who flies the confederate flag is a racist, however almost every racist southerner flies a confederate flag for this reason

It still wouldn't stop me painting the roof of my car like the Dukes of hazards general lee though

 

[Bardeaux]

Ken, you need to CE&P more often imo (please)

 

[SvnLyrBrto]

Not every southerner who flies the confederate flag is a racist, however almost every racist southerner flies a confederate flag for this reason

It still wouldn't stop me painting the roof of my car like the Dukes of hazards general lee though

Bullocks. That's like saying not every skinhead who displays the swastika is a racist. The only time that could possibly be true is if someone snuck up and put that sticker/flag/tattoo/whatever on your person or property without your noticing... or maybe you're an actor on television or in a movie playing a racist. Otherwise you know damn well what it is, what it represents, and what you are saying by displaying it.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I doubt very much the Duke brothers are racist

 

[Kenickie]

Ken, you need to CE&P more often imo (please)

this place gives me ulcers. it was a lot more fun with my bae around. i really just came here to post good news about columbia.

 

[Droppersneck]

Kenny your msnbc style talking points do nothing for me. The civil war happened for many reasons. A large one was the fact that the south had the economic edge with its free labor and large agriculture sector. This was the driving force that ended slavery and If you think it was Bc lincoln became embodied by Oprah one day and felt bad about slavery you are fooling yourself. I in no way associate the battle flag with racism but since it has been tainted by hate groups I do not choose to fly it. I am simply a history buff and think it should be voted on when it comes to state flags by the citizens of the state. Lord I went to hs in Albany Georgia that was 85% black back in 1999 and me and my buddies would wear ridiculous shirts more often then not being ironic with the flag on them. The brand was called faded glory iirc. Nobody at that hs gave a fuck my god How this country has changed we would of made the news now a day. Pathetic

 

[socko]

Kenny your msnbc style talking points do nothing for me. The civil war happened for many reasons. A large one was the fact that the south had the economic edge with its free labor and large agriculture sector. This was the driving force that ended slavery and If you think it was Bc lincoln became embodied by Oprah one day and felt bad about slavery you are fooling yourself. I in no way associate the battle flag with racism but since it has been tainted by hate groups I do not choose to fly it. I am simply a history buff and think it should be voted on when it comes to state flags by the citizens of the state. Lord I went to hs in Albany Georgia that was 85% black back in 1999 and me and my buddies would wear ridiculous shirts more often then not being ironic with the flag on them. The brand was called faded glory iirc. Nobody at that hs gave a fuck my god How this country has changed we would of made the news now a day. Pathetic

So are you acknowledging taht the root reason was about slavery ( the basis of the economyà)? Lincoln and most northerners didn't really care about freedom, but they cared about the economy. It's just like the US going into Iraq - for the oil. It wasn't to steal it but to make sure it would make it to market.