Is life shit without drugs?

[alasdairm]

"the internet is an accelerator and force multiplier of opinion and perception. indignation is its rocket fuel."



alasdair

 

[Ceres]

"the internet is an accelerator and force multiplier of opinion and perception. indignation is its rocket fuel."



alasdair

heh very nice. I have been thinking lately about how the internet, forums, primarily news site comment sections and so on, bear a resemblance to the 'daily rage' in Orwells 1984.

 

[pinkpapaver]

True, I was proselytysing for the swirlys but I had an open mind that someone might say "Speed saved me from despair".

but you need to frame your question more meaningfully to get any truly meaningful answers really.

I was hoping to draw out any passionate followers of the swirly messiah but I'm a little disappointed in the lack of devout followers. Apart from a handful of us it feels a bit like asking a class of trainee CID at Hendon about their drinking - "it's just a bit of fun and entertainment". Perhaps it's a question of age - maybe if you just start taking drugs when you're 14 out of nothing more than boredom you have a different outlook on them to someone who went to them as medicine.

Well I've just discovered that 1 p stuff and think everyone should have a little trip once in a while. I'd even recommend it to my son. It helps you notice stuff that you wouldn't have noticed while on a straight head if you understand me. See things in a new light is a powerful phrase.

 

[Raasyvibe]

Yet he seems to get away with religious bigotry time and time again because it's towards a Christian

^^^^agreed!

It's disgusting the way Christians are treated on here.

Evey

Well yeah...but it's pretty disgusting how I was made to say the Lords fucking prayer for years in school assembly when I didn't want to. So some of us, rightly or wrongly, just see it as payback. You shove shit down my throat don't be surprised when I'm sick on you later on.

Are you saying that bigotry/verbal abuse towards people with religious beliefs different to your own on this forum, is absolutely justified, because you're disgruntled about saying the lords prayer in school 40 odd years ago? Am I getting this right...

It's not like you were forcibly circumcised or anything.

I had annoying jehova witness's disturbing me before. I don't like it, I don't share most of their beliefs... but I at least accept not to abuse someone who I feel is making a mistake, and can politely tell them I do not enjoy being disturbed and to leave. I never see any need for abuse of any kind.

I'm actually quite shocked that a lot of posters on this board seem to have expressed that they believe bigotry and victimisation is acceptable; as long as it's towards religious people. Also quite shocked mods seem to feel the same way, and reflect this by flouting the guidelines completely to support the religious bigots.

---

You seem to have missed this bit of my follow up post: "Just a bit of cheeky wordplay based on how you can make statements like that about vague concepts like 'drugs' and 'religion' which don't mean much in reality; all depending on the specific size and shape of 'generally'."

I wasn't really stating anything i believed, i was cheekily serving your own generalisation back to you to illustrate it's meaninglessness

Well the difference between our statements is that I actually believe what I'm saying. Yes it was a bit generalised, but I even admitted and expressed that in the original post:

"Drugs generally replace what you're lacking/missing in your own life and only make way to a host of other problems. People should always be looking to improve their own lives and negate their desire for drugs, rather than succumb to them.

Saying that, there is always a time and place for fuckery in a rich and diverse lifestyle."

I don't make a distinction between animals and humans - what are we, plants? fungus? It's insulting to evolution to pry us apart from the entire superorganism that is life i feel. The little bit of our brains/genes that separates us from the other mammals/crows is not that significant in the great scheme of things - our 'intelligence' sits on top of a whole evolutionary edifice of cognition which is shared by many animals (eg intution) - the bit that makes us different is interesting but on its own (ie without intuition), useless.

Having studied psychology for a degree, I can tell you in that field it is considered to be quite a significant psychological difference between humans and animals, and most studies made on animals are ripped to pieces by critics.

It's also difficult to distnguish natural from artificial highs - is feeling awe from a massive pipe organ in a cathedral artificial? (pipe organs don't grow on trees); for that matter, isn't modern religion artificial, with all it's books and buildings? (Unless it ties itself to some hunter-gatherer shamanic religion which you could argue is more 'natural' (i wouldn't)).

I'd disagree. There's a very distinct difference: A natural high has to be elicited somehow, largely from our perceived experience. An artificial high however can be elicited from no experiential external stimuli. Hence it's artificiality.

 

[Vurtual]

...I'd disagree. There's a very distinct difference: A natural high has to be elicited somehow, largely from our perceived experience. An artificial high however can be elicited from no experiential external stimuli. Hence it's artificiality.
[/hr]

Self awareness is quite a cool little adaption no doubt - in evolutionary terms it helps with planning, strategy, culture etc. My point is, when sat next to a rock, the difference between my brain and a chimp's brain is minimal - take away the self awareness (or whatever it is) and you've still got a pretty damn clever animal.

As to artifical highs: When i take a psychedelic, what happens doesn't come from nowhere - it magnifies what's already naturally in my mind due to experience - that's why it feels so natural (or weird). This is the same way (imo) that religious devotion, prayer, meditation, incantation etc can close out the world and magnify the divine that's naturally in your mind (it's the same 'divine' as the trip can give access to).

 

[Eveleivibe]

Wow.

If I dare call you anything but "Julie" I'm instantly infracted because I'm not allowed to disagree with your beliefs. Yet you can freely point and laugh if you disagree with mine. Stunning hypocrisy.

I also think you don't understand that we're referring to bigotry and abuse here, not just a difference of opinion.

--

Thread has become over inflated. I'm not victimised here. When Ceres loses an argument he turns to posting stupid memes, and sometimes Shambles chips in when he's in one of his moods. That's about the extent of it.

I'm done. N'night all

Are you saying that bigotry/verbal abuse towards people with religious beliefs different to your own on this forum, is absolutely justified, because you're disgruntled about saying the lords prayer in school 40 odd years ago? Am I getting this right...

It's not like you were forcibly circumcised or anything.

I had annoying jehova witness's disturbing me before. I don't like it, I don't share most of their beliefs... but I at least accept not to abuse someone who I feel is making a mistake, and can politely tell them I do not enjoy being disturbed and to leave. I never see any need for abuse of any kind.

I'm actually quite shocked that a lot of posters on this board seem to have expressed that they believe bigotry and victimisation is acceptable; as long as it's towards religious people. Also quite shocked mods seem to feel the same way, and reflect this by flouting the guidelines completely to support the religious bigots.

---

Well the difference between our statements is that I actually believe what I'm saying. Yes it was a bit generalised, but I even admitted and expressed that in the original post:

"Drugs generally replace what you're lacking/missing in your own life and only make way to a host of other problems. People should always be looking to improve their own lives and negate their desire for drugs, rather than succumb to them.

Saying that, there is always a time and place for fuckery in a rich and diverse lifestyle."




Having studied psychology for a degree, I can tell you in that field it is considered to be quite a significant psychological difference between humans and animals, and most studies made on animals are ripped to pieces by critics.



I'd disagree. There's a very distinct difference: A natural high has to be elicited somehow, largely from our perceived experience. An artificial high however can be elicited from no experiential external stimuli. Hence it's artificiality.

Raasy, when I said you were being victimised due to your religion you said you weren't being? But now in this post you are suggesting that you are being? Not trying to be funny but what do you expect the mods to do if someone tries to defend you n you say you're not being victimised, it's just ceres always having to say something with Shambles butting in now n then?

The moderators are only humans remember n
If you say you're not being victimised that its just ceres saying a few things, then they're bound to take that as the rules haven't been broken n not to intervene.

Also keeping these endless, repetitive arguments going doesn't help the situation. Why not report the bigotry n victimisation? I'm not trying to be mean it's just not fair on isme who didn't make his thread for this. Also what's the point in the circular arguments with non-Christians? None of you are going to agree n it's just going to continue on n on n on as it's done for years. Why not all agree to disagree n discuss something where you're more likely to get on with people here?

As I said I'm not trying to be mean just trying to offer some advice as I see things.

Edit: yea there animal studies in psychology wasn't lots in what I studied, which reminds me of BPS (which reminds me I'm about to be kicked out of the graduate society soon as I've not paid the annual fee which somehow is now £126. How-oh they can stick it as they hadn't sent me the Psycologist because "it's on the net" now. But yea we studied animal emotion n I've forgotten all of it now. Hah. Just how I was told we would as it becomes less important (studying I mean lol). Whatever studies are done an animals can never really be as strong as humans because one can never access subjective experience, although human subjective experience can always be distorted or manipulated by the person themselves.

I'm waffling on now sorry peeps.

Evey

 

[Eveleivibe]

Self awareness is quite a cool little adaption no doubt - in evolutionary terms it helps with planning, strategy, culture etc. My point is, when sat next to a rock, the difference between my brain and a chimp's brain is minimal - take away the self awareness (or whatever it is) and you've still got a pretty damn clever animal.

As to artifical highs: When i take a psychedelic, what happens doesn't come from nowhere - it magnifies what's already naturally in my mind due to experience - that's why it feels so natural (or weird). This is the same way (imo) that religious devotion, prayer, meditation, incantation etc can close out the world and magnify the divine that's naturally in your mind (it's the same 'divine' as the trip can give access to).

I do enjoy reading your posts, Vurtual. They're intelligent n give food for thought. Interesting point about self-awareness.

PS: mods sorry about double posting just my post before this is really long as thought it best to put a separate post. Find it difficult to not quote whole post on my mobile or I'd have quoted relevant parts

Evey

 

[Mylo]

it depends on the drugs i think...... as many people here have said psychedelics have greatly enhanched their life. id be joining their song about 5 years ago when monthly ayahuasca/lsd/mushroom use was scheduled in with moderation, together with healthy living, good relasionships, career etc etc...

but then you have to look at the damage some drugs can do. heroin for example...... crack another...... i look back at when i used "drugs" as they should be used imo back in the day with great envy compared to my current junkie life. if you asked me back then id say certain drugs seemed like they were gifts from the gods, sent down to help my existence exponentially. Ask me now and drugs are a daily poison i have to consume to not feel sick and my life would no dout be a lot better off without them.

 

[Magz0]

The question is too general as human beings are so complex. For instance some people may need drugs (medication) to survive n without it their quality of life will be deeply affected.

In the recreational sense then again the question is too general. We have human perception n we have that of the addict mind. For an addict the perception is different in that they feel a certain drug (drug of choice / poly drug use) is needed in order for the person to have any quality of life. We know that this perception is distorted because of the things that the addict may have to do in order to seek out out the DOC eg stealing / n lying.

Person whom is not an addict may think that life is shit if they do not have drugs at sometime during the week whether it's illegal, alcohol or whatever but may function without for the rest of the time. And there are the people who like drugs, can take them or leave them n enjoy life either way.

Over n out.

Edit your body also can release chemicals that these drugs seek to rectify if only people realise it for instance the body's natural opiate in preventing pain (why the body suffers pain in opiate WD because these have been depleted by the opiate in question.

Evey

Excellent post Evey.

 

[steewith2ees]

Sorry, havnt read the thread yet so im just going to respond to the question in the title




yes

 

[blondin]

for me life isnt shit its just boring and tbh heroin doesnt make it any less boring its just that it blots out houirs at a time. My best time with drugs was in 88-92 when i was raving and taking industrial amounts of good mdma and acid - if you asked me then if life was shit without drugs i would most likely have said yes.

 

[steewith2ees]

for me life isnt shit its just boring and tbh heroin doesnt make it any less boring its just that it blots out houirs at a time. My best time with drugs was in 88-92 when i was raving and taking industrial amounts of good mdma and acid - if you asked me then if life was shit without drugs i would most likely have said yes.

This

Getting hooked on heroin ruined my life but I still rate dancing on E as the best feeling in the world. I wouldnt swap my club / rave experiences and memories for anything

 

[Shambles]

^ To the above two posts, at risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, why not get the scag tae fuck and make time for those experiences which brought you such joy? It is entirely doable I can assure you. I very much speak from experience here. No matter how far down one path one may have wandered there is always a way back

Knowing the little i do about modern genetics i hesitate to attribute genetic causes to human behaviours - at best there's a genetic influence. The genes have to be understood as part of an interactive system that learns and changes over time - it's difficult to unpick what's due to the initial starting points of the genes and what is due to the experience of the complex system (person) in question (like the relationship between the first few moves and the finished board in a game of Go). According to current science genes aren't simply passive code but an active network - the switching of the genes is varied over time in response to the environment in a constant process of feedback (this switching can even be passed on to children) - the old fashioned fatalistic gene determinism of the 90s is pretty much dead (mainstream accounts of genetics don't seem to have taken this change on board yet) (sorry for the OT; you gave me a chance to get on one of my waffle horses ).

I actually agree completely with this. Was somewhat overstating the case due to acute intoxication - myself being in the former primate grouping

Genetics are but a part of the overall state - and are subject to constant change as epigentics demonstrate - but I can't see how the initial genetic state can fail to be other than "influential". The overall picture is most certainly more complex but the monkey vs human alcoholism ratios suggest a pretty fukkin strong relationship unless that is just the wildest coincidence ever.

 

[steewith2ees]

I still get out when I can Shambles, but the last time was nearly 2 years ago, and having no mates meant i had to go on my own. No ones interested in me and my boring club music any more, weekends just easier to spend in a nod, waiting for death or redemption. I have 70mls to get shut of and they wont let me even consider reducing - choice of cold turk for the month or keep the handcuffs on, im just not in the position to go out.

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

Life is not shit without drugs, life is shit when you have a habit. Drugs should be used to enhance your life, not replace it.

 

[blondin]

I still get out when I can Shambles, but the last time was nearly 2 years ago, and having no mates meant i had to go on my own. No ones interested in me and my boring club music any more, weekends just easier to spend in a nod, waiting for death or redemption. I have 70mls to get shut of and they wont let me even consider reducing - choice of cold turk for the month or keep the handcuffs on, im just not in the position to go out.

...same as- all my mates who i use to go out ravin with are like me - settled , family,moved away, proper job i cant call in sick on depression tuesday...etc. On top of all that i wouldn't have a clue where to get a few decent pills and the DN is not an option. I remember being offered gear at a rave and i just laughed and thought no fuckin way mate - and all my pals were really shoked as they knew my past - nothin beats that madness of good E and some sid with house music, strobes and all the other good stuff n vibes. I can get my self down to 10mg even 5mg from a 2 week quick detox from 70mg but since the late 90's its been either gear or 'done each day so stopping completely would need a week away on my own somewhere so that i could get from 5mg to zero and suffer a bit at the end away from my family. But I just don't see that happening after all thats why its called a habit - i have forgotten the 'formula' of length of time aquiring and having a habit (of any sort) and time taken to lose it but in my case I reckon ive missed that particular boat.

 

[Shambles]

For me it was twelve years of heavy heroin and methadone habit with two years of tapering before final week inpatient detox. Having said that, I am back on a Subutex script now as I am simply more stable when on a Subbies script as I actually need opioids for their analgesic purpose and - with history like mine - that's only really feasible by getting a maintenance script. At least for now (waiting on other possibilities via specialist pain management services that should become available in a few months). I find it to be far, far easier to maintain "normal life" stuff when on bupe then on methadone (and certainly a lot easier than when on gear - or any other non-scripted opies for that matter). The lack of sedation - slight stimulation even - works especially well for being able to have playtime with more pleasing substances.

I'm also knocking on a bit myself (40 this year ) and actually find opportunity is fairly plentiful (given my situation and practicalities of actually going anywhere anyway). Seems to be far more about outlook and mindset than minor details. Old friends no longer interested in playing out? Make new ones. Is eminently doable - especially with internet access. To be honest, I never actually spend much time with people I know when out playing anyway - we always end up wandering off and getting caught up in our own little adventures and meeting new people anyway.

Hopefully we will manage to finally arrange another EADD meet sometime - you really should come out and have a little fun if you can make it... that is if any of us can ever manage to organise the bleedin' things ><

Life is not shit without drugs, life is shit when you have a habit. Drugs should be used to enhance your life, not replace it.

I very much agree with this and was thinking about just recently. I regularly attend SMART meetings and courses where the vast majority tend to opt for abstinence - but there is nothing in the SMART approach that necessitates abstinence so it is always an entirely personal decision. Abstinence is neither desirable nor feasible for me (at least for now and I can't honestly see that changing) because I really, really like drugs. I also really, really hate addiction. For many reason, but one of the big ones is that being addicted to anything tends to utterly ruin drugs in general for you. Sucks all the enjoyment leaving - at best - a kind of resigned acceptance. I don't think that is what any of us signed up for when embarking on druggy deeds.

 

[Ismene]

Thought you were older than 40 shammy - you're still a baby

I'd disagree. There's a very distinct difference: A natural high has to be elicited somehow, largely from our perceived experience. An artificial high however can be elicited from no experiential external stimuli. Hence it's artificiality.
[/hr]

Arn't natural highs largely shit tho? What kind of thing are you talking about? Spinning round in a circle until you feel dizzy?

 

[felix]

Thought you were older than 40 shammy

Haha.

 

[gardenlane]

I don't think life without drugs would be entirely shit. I don't have much experience of many drugs tho so probably need to just be fed more so I can answer properly nomaysayin?

I've found I have had some wonderful times whilst on drugs, and some bad. I look back at meth nights which were fun at the time and think who even were those people now. Once the drugs are gone, the walls go back up. There was an honesty and openess to conversation but it's all forgotten so quickly. I've had people say things to me whilst they were on drugs which meant the world to me, yet they don't remember because they were on drugs hahaha.

If it all ran out, I think I'd cry and throw a fit but it wouldn't be the end for me.