Have I got HPPD, or just anxiety? Please help

[MysteriousOne]

Hi all

I promised myself I wouldn't sign up to a forum about this but I just want to know if there's anyone going through/gone through any similar to me.

Starting from the beginning: About 3 months ago I went to a rave and binged on about a gram of what I believe to be pure MDMA over the course of about 7 hours. Stupid, I know (please spare the lectures). Anyway, my last dose was at 4am and I was rolling fine until around 6am when I began seeing bugs everywhere, these were like big moth creatures. After 2 hours or so the moths turned to little worms and after another couple of hours the worms turned to houseflies. The houseflies would crawl on the wall for a bit before eventually flying off and disappearing. I knew these were not real, so I don't believe I was experiencing psychosis.

The day after I got some sleep and woke up, staring at the wall to see if the bugs were still there, which they weren't. But what I saw when I stared at the wall was one or two black dots, moving about in like a shutter effect. This didn't wear off as the days passed, so I googled something along the lines of 'dots on wall after MDMA overdose'. This is when I discovered HPPD.

I read about HPPD and suddenly began looking for the symptoms, and you guessed it, I then started seeing the symptoms. The first one I saw was the visual static, then I began looking for other things like floaters, ghosting and after images, and I started seeing it all.

I went to the docs and told them and I was prescribed olanzipine, which actually made things worse. On the olanzopine the static got thicker and I began seeing patterns on the wall. If the wall was light I would see like a yellow beehive pattern, if it was dark I would see a purple blob transform into a red star. When I came off the patterns went away and the static died down, although sometimes when I'm hungover they come back for a day or two. Can I add that the purple blob originated from when I looked at a slideshow at work and saw a negative after image of a green circle on the slide, then I began looking for it everywhere.'

I then went back to my doctors and he prescribed me some diazepam to bring my anxiety levels down which I took for 10 days. The diazepam made me less anxious but I was still looking for the visuals. I then started looking for floaters, and now I see them all the time. The thing about the floaters is that I see them whether I'm thinking about them or not, whereas the static I have to be thinking about it and look for it to see it. I've also asked a couple of my friends if they can see the static and they said they can now that I mention it, but never seen it before. The problem with me is that I can't stop thinking about it, and it's driving me insane. I've been referred for CBT for severe anxiety, and hoping to start very soon. All in hall the last 3 months has been hell for me, I wake up atleast 10 times a night and all day I have a constant feeling of dread. I don't know why the visuals cause my anxiety but they do.

My doctor thinks that my anxiety caused me to notice these symptoms and then the symptoms are causing me to worry, kind of like a vicious circle. Since that night I haven't touched any drug, apart from my prescribed ones and alcohol. I don't plan on touching anything again. I'm working out everyday, eating healthy, going to work and taking lions mane/omega 3 to try and improve my brain chemistry. I refuse to touch SSRI's as I fear it will make my symptoms worse.

I was just hoping to get some of your opinions, has anyone else been through similar to this? How did you get over it? Have I got HPPD or is it just my anxiety? If it is HPPD will it go away? I massively appreciate any help and I thank you all in advance.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

It sounds like it's related to your anxiety, or stress. But I've never taken MDMA or any MDXX type drugs. That is pretty cool that you saw insect visuals while on MDMA/MDA.

People who have never used drugs see floaters, visual snow, etc. and it's just the vitrious matter in your eyes going against the lens of your eye or that's what they told me when I asked about this stuff when at the eye doctor getting an examination for glasses and contacts.

If you're worried about it stop using all illegal drugs for at least six months and see if your symptoms improve or go away. Good luck.

 

[MysteriousOne]

Hey. Thanks for your reply. I can assure you it's not cool, it really freaked me out. The visuals all started when I began to feel really weird. I think it may have been a panic attack and then when I got that distant feeling in my head that I associate with a panic attack that's when I began to see the bugs. They were all over every surface!

I spoke to my optician about the static and the floaters, but my problem is I can't stop thinking about them, which I put down to the anxiety. Even if I see them, why does it bother me? I could put up with the visual distortions if it wasn't for the anxiety that came with it.

 

[Treedweller]

I can't say for sure because i don't know enough about the science, but from personal experience i would say that it is related more to your anxiety and inability to stop thinking about it.

I went through a period of extremely heavy LSD/MDMA and marijuana use- for about 6 months afterwards (and to some extent still 3-4 years later) i thought i had HPPD. The key change was that it eventually stopped bothering me. I feel like my visual acuity might have changed slightly (if anything) but it is no longer something that concerns me.

You seem to have answered your question in your last paragraph. If it was genuinely HPPD i think it would be undeniable that that was the case. As it is currently, you are suffering from anxiety and therefore experiencing what would normally be very mild or even unnoticeable 'symptoms' in a much more pronounced manner.

I would bet that treating the anxiety effectively will result in you feeling less concerned about this issue. That is something you gotta sort out for yourself though, and there are many resources available IRL and online to do that. Good luck, and i'm not a doctor so keep in mind this is all just conjecture.

 

[MysteriousOne]

Hi Treedweller, thanks for sharing your story. I'm getting Cognitive Behavioural Therapy very soon hopefully, so I will let you know in a few months time if this was effective for me, so anyone going through similar can try and do the same. What did take for the symptoms to stop bothering you? Was it just a natural process?

 

[Kl519]

This is like a negative placebo effect. You worrying and looking for these abnormalities are just going to make it worse, which can be directly attributed to your anxiety. You should definitely stay sober until your hppd subsides.

I'd also question whether what you had was "pure" mdma, laced with something, or entirely something else. I guess you could have those types of hallucinations from it, even though I never have, but it's probably possible. I've mostly just gotten tracers, blips of reality in a strobe-like fashion, everything looks embossed and vibrant, etc.

I've noticed that when you look for those floaters, they kind of come in droves. But when you focus on other things, they go away. Focus on exercise, healthy eating and seeing your doctor when you experience any more negative changes to your condition.

Anxiety is usually a life long condition, but it doesn't mean it has to hinder you so much in this way. Try to reduce it, eg. by reducing your stress. It's hard and sometimes it flat out doesn't work, but keep trying, remember to think positive and be confident in getting better from all of this.

Also, shouldn't this be in MED? Anyway, best of luck and keep trying to improve your health. You should feel better in time.

 

[Trate]

Hi there,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, problems like this can seem like the end of the world and honestly aren't as uncommon as you may think. This board was a massive a crucial resource for me when something similar happened.

Here is a post that I sent in reply to someone in a somewhat similar situation a few years back that I hope may be of some help. My symptoms weren't exactly the same, and mine was caused by LSD (also somewhat as a result of hard drug use for many years prior, including a lot of MDMA), but I had the same feelings of extreme anxiety and a feeling of dread/disconnection, along with major concerns of HPPD, PTSD, psychosis, or something similar. Because of this it made me think this might be of some help as it was a culmination of all the great advice that I read on this board that ultimately helped me move on.

"Sounds horrible, and a lot like my experience after a bad couple of trips with psychedelics.

Whether it was a psychotic break or just a rampant case of anxiety/paranoia; I think you should focus on just trying to move on rather than to try and analyse every little detail of what happened.

When I went through what I did, I was convinced that I had damaged my brain or given myself a psychotic episode - only later to find out that it was a mild case of de-personalisation caused by the extreme anxiety of the PTSD that went along with my bad trip. Once I had analysed that it was my own fears driving the very thing that I was so terrified of, then I could start to heal and repair. This involved slowly working through any of the issues/insecurities that cropped up through my acid experiences (a lot extended back to prior mental health issues and childhood), some of which that I didn't even know that were there. I found that acid and most psychedelics in general opened my mind up and allowed me to see the world and myself for what it was - unfortunately for me it meant revealing sides of myself that I had been buried for well over 10 years.

It's been a year and two months since this happened to me, the first 6 months were hell and were full of self doubt, fear and long days spent forcing myself to do things that weeks before were second nature, the following 6 months were a lot more manageable, and only within the last 2 months or so could I say that I feel "normal" again. Forever I was trying to find the "old me" before realising that that was one of the traps that the LSD had set - not realising that this experience like all the others in my life changed me into who I am today, it was up to me what I did with that information from there on. I wasn't ever going to feel like the "old me" because the experience had taught me so much, a lot of which seemed very negative at first until I found ways to see it in a positive light; now I almost see it as my metamorphosis into adulthood. Without it I wouldn't be half as humble, understanding, empathetic and compassionate as I am now, which has helped rather than hurt (like I thought it would) my personal relationships 10 fold.

The crucial things to consider that were told to me by the same people you're talking to on this board now are: Sleep right, eat right, minimise/eradicate your drug usage at least for a while, exercise, force yourself to socialise and go out REGARDLESS of how much it may scare you - I can't stress this one enough, and most importantly find someone in real life who you feel comfortable sharing all of this with - it helps beyond belief to be able to share some of this stuff, it makes things far less internalised.

I completely get what you mean about the relationship with marijuana, weed was my drug of choice when I had my bad trip, and because of it being a psychoactive drug - everytime that I'd smoke up it'd send me right back to that dark introverted colourless place that the acid put me into. I drastically reduced my intake when it happened and switched to lighter methods like small joints instead of packed bongs and slowly started to form a positive association with it again over time. I'm now able to enjoy my weed far more than I could a year ago, but it's still not the same as it was and I found that good moderation kept a fairly healthy lid on it.

I understand if this isn't directly relevant to your situation, I just feel that I owe a debt to this board who helped me so much in my time of need, and hopefully bits and pieces of what I and everyone else will resonate with you in the coming crucial months.

Just please remember that you're not alone, many of us have been through the same thing or something similar and have come out of it fine.

Good luck mate, this shit ain't easy. "

Hope this helps! I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Tranced]

I'd also question whether what you had was "pure" mdma, laced with something, or entirely something else. I guess you could have those types of hallucinations from it, even though I never have, but it's probably possible.
)

^It's pretty likely this could be actual MDMA. It's been widely reported on forums like bluelight over the years that CYP3A4 metabolises MDMA to MDA inside the human body. Given that you were only raving for seven hours (so not much chance of sleep deprivation) I would imagine this is what happened. MDA is very visual and very trippy. It is unusual that you saw the same thing for such a long time, but I'd imagine that was influenced by your anxiety. I've seen similar things after ingesting MDMA myself. I often see these little cellular organisms floating through the air; to the point that I've walked home before and it appeared to be raining them (it wasn't raining, btw). Not everybody gets this effect, but personally I get it off MDMA all the time. I almost always trip when I take MDMA, and having tried MDA itself, I can confirm it's practically the same effect. But anyway, it's largely by the by. The point is that visuals can easily happen, especially in high doses.

I also experience the exact same visual effects that you do. Visual snow is abundant in my visual field, especially at night. I guess it's similar to a mild form of HPPD, but to my knowledge there is no connection to this and full blown HPPD. I personally think that it's mainly a case of noticing static which was there all along. Weed can really make you take notice.

I think it's highly unlikely that you tripping on MDMA and seeing the static the following day is physically related. Doing a gram of MDMA in 7 hours really isn't at all uncommon in the UK. I've known literally hundreds of people to do these kind of quantities and I've never heard of anybody suffering from MDMA as a consequence. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, but given that you were looking for visuals when you noticed the snow, and probably a bit freaked out, it's almost a dead cert that you simply noticed something that has always been there.

The visual snow effect is definitely linked to anxiety/depression. When I am really anxious/depressed it gets worse, and in tur this has made me more anxious/depressed. The reason I never get stuck in this cycle of letting it bother me/making it worse any more is because I realised what was happening and decided to just ignore it.

Let's think about two things we know here.

1. Thinking about it makes you anxious
2. Being anxious makes it worse.

Being anxious about it does absolutely nothing to mitigate the effect - in fact, it actually enhances it.

I can absolutely 100% guarantee that you are completely fine, physically, with regard to this visual snow effect. It can't hurt you. Anxiety, however, can hurt you.

You need to work on your anxiety and just recognise that you've noticed some static on your vision, you can't do anything about it, and that this situation is completely fine.

Basically, don't worry about it. Everything is cool. It's a bit annoying, but so is loads of stuff.

You're best off learning some techniques to mitigate the anxiety itself. The sooner you accept it, the sooner it will stop being an issue. Trust me, I've been in the exact same position.

 

[MysteriousOne]

I'm from the UK too and I'm one of them gram a night bingers you talk about... Well not anymore. This is all very reassuring, it sounds like you had a similar experience to me. Do you find that once the anxiety subsides then so does you noticing the visuals, or do you still notice them but they no longer bother you?

 

[Tranced]

I'm from the UK too and I'm one of them gram a night bingers you talk about... Well not anymore. This is all very reassuring, it sounds like you had a similar experience to me. Do you find that once the anxiety subsides then so does you noticing the visuals, or do you still notice them but they no longer bother you?

Both. I feel like being anxious made it more intense. The reduction in anxiety meant I was no longer bothered, and it was less intense anyway.

A few months ago I was feeling really anxious and it bothered me ridiculous amounts. I first noticed it when I started smoking weed over a decade ago and it had never really bothered me until that time.

At the end of the day, it can't kill you, it can't hurt you, it's just annoying. If.you focus on it. But so are millions of things.

The thing that irks me is that I love seeing the world in HD, but at night time or low visibility its a bit like looking at a slightly crappy photo.

It's annoying, but so are flies and indie bands.

Do you take any steps (other than medication/CBT) to mitigate the anxiety you experience?

 

[Treedweller]

Hi Treedweller, thanks for sharing your story. I'm getting Cognitive Behavioural Therapy very soon hopefully, so I will let you know in a few months time if this was effective for me, so anyone going through similar can try and do the same. What did take for the symptoms to stop bothering you? Was it just a natural process?

The main things were stopping frequent heavy drug use, exercising regularly and basically just getting on with my life. That last part consisted of focusing on work and uni more than i had in the past. I didn't feel better overnight but one day i realised it was something i hadn't worried about in weeks.

Nowadays i still smoke weed a couple of times a month, and probably dose a few times a year, which i find is more than enough to satisfy me.

Just finding something to do with your time and trying to keep yourself healthy in a general sense is probably the most important thing. Like Tranced said, at the end of the day it's just annoying even though it feels dreadful if it's not something you are familiar with.

 

[MysteriousOne]

All I'm doing is exercising everyday, supplementing with omega 3 etc, trying to live my life as normal and getting the CBT. What else can I do?

 

[Trate]

Socialise regularly is an important one. Challenge yourself - eg. try and learn a new skill or study a topic you've always been interested in but never gotten around to. Keep your mind active.

Research is good because it can help shed light on the difficulties you're having but also try not to pick at it too much, don't over research, I found that researching my symptoms too much made me obsess over them even more.

It sounds like you're on the right track, just keep doing what you're doing and always look at ways of improving yourself (exercising, which you're doing, is a great one). Any change to your mental environment and regular routine will take getting used to, all you can do is treat yourself kindly until you get there.

EDIT: Something else I wanted to add was to try and remember to stay away from wanting to "get back to normal". As stated in a previous post; going through a traumatic experience will ultimately change your outlook on life and it takes time to see that in a positive light. You'll be normal, but ultimately changed from what's happened. Even once you adjust it's probably going to be an experience you always remember, the same as you would remember the experience of a bad physical accident. 3-4 years on from my bad trip and I still get flare ups and have to remind myself of the things I learned when it originally happened. You got out alive which is the most important thing, just work on putting the pieces back together.

 

[MysteriousOne]

Socialise regularly is an important one. Challenge yourself - eg. try and learn a new skill or study a topic you've always been interested in but never gotten around to. Keep your mind active.

Research is good because it can help shed light on the difficulties you're having but also try not to pick at it too much, don't over research, I found that researching my symptoms too much made me obsess over them even more.

It sounds like you're on the right track, just keep doing what you're doing and always look at ways of improving yourself (exercising, which you're doing, is a great one). Any change to your mental environment and regular routine will take getting used to, all you can do is treat yourself kindly until you get there.

EDIT: Something else I wanted to add was to try and remember to stay away from wanting to "get back to normal". As stated in a previous post; going through a traumatic experience will ultimately change your outlook on life and it takes time to see that in a positive light. You'll be normal, but ultimately changed from what's happened. Even once you adjust it's probably going to be an experience you always remember, the same as you would remember the experience of a bad physical accident. 3-4 years on from my bad trip and I still get flare ups and have to remind myself of the things I learned when it originally happened. You got out alive which is the most important thing, just work on putting the pieces back together.

Really helpful thank you, appreciate it. I hope I can come out of this situation even stronger than I was before and view it in a positive light.

 

[Dawglaw]

MysteriousOne - you will be fine. I have been in a worse position than you have and made it back 100%. It takes a lot of time and patience but it goes away. There is not magic cure but CBT, staying away from drugs (including weed), exercise, and staying as busy as possible are the keys. Just try your best to move on with life, notwithstanding the weird feelings, sights and concerns. It is counter-intuitive but when you move on from being focused on the changes, you really start to feel a lot better. Soon you will realize that you have not thought about it in months.

Check out the recovery thread in the MDMA forum. A little caveat, do not get caught up in the hypochondria that some of the "Google MDs" profess in that thread. What you are experiencing is anxiety, not brain damage/hormonal imbalance/etc. You are definitely not the first person to experience some long term anxiety triggered by MDMA. Many have been there and fully recovered.

 

[ecstacylover]

I've had similar symptoms to what you describe. I believe that DXM and 2c-B were the main culprits though. MDMA binges and other psychedelic binges never really seemed to make it any worse. Anyway at one point the symptoms were really bad: black dots moving around which sometimes connected like a worm, visual snow, etc. Finally I just stopped worrying about it and it seems I've slowly stopped noticing them. I think you're biggest problem is worrying about it too much.

 

[Tranced]

All I'm doing is exercising everyday, supplementing with omega 3 etc, trying to live my life as normal and getting the CBT. What else can I do?

Treedweller and Trate & others have offered sound advice, for starters.

Really helpful thank you, appreciate it. I hope I can come out of this situation even stronger than I was before and view it in a positive light.

That's the spirit. Keep that attitude and you'll be just fine.

How long have you suffered from anxiety for? And what kind of anxiety is it?

I think the best thing to do is attack it on all fronts, especially if you've had it a long time and it's kind of a part of who you are.

Eat healthy (green smoothies are fucking brilliant), meditate and exercise.

Meditation really is key and I think if you suffer from generalised anxiety, and kind of 'worry' about stuff then it's really important to learn to recognise and regulate your thoughts.

If you haven't read it already, then I recommend the book the The Power Of Now (amazon linky here).

It's written in a very kind of, I dunno, I guess 'spiritual' tone, which might initially be kind of annoying. But don't let it put you off. The content is valuable information. It provides such an intriguing insight into your every day mind. It's available as both ebook and audiobook on torrent.

There is a good app called headspace as well, which provides guided meditations. Also www.calm.com.

Meditation should provide instant release from anxiety. Like I say though, look into The Power Of Now. It is so important to understand the way your ego works, and the first few chapters of that book have completely revolutionised the way that I think.

Also, walking in nature helps. An interesting/useful thing to know is that I've noticed that if you're in bright summer sunlight in the English countryside, you won't be able to see the static at all. So you can look forward to that.

 

[atara]

Um, the lion's mane is a definite candidate for contributing to anxiety. Many stimulating ("nootropic") substances (e.g. caffeine) contribute to anxiety, and there could be interactions with your medication. Don't self-medicate with strange things without telling your doctor what you're on.

I suggest flax meal instead of omega-3 supplements. If you can get it down (which isn't too hard but it tastes like plastic) it's much cheaper than pills and contains more omega-3 per serving, and it's shelf-stable.

My doctor thinks that my anxiety caused me to notice these symptoms and then the symptoms are causing me to worry, kind of like a vicious circle.

This is a possibility you shouldn't discount. The often-bandied-about practice of mindfulness can help you notice when you're being obsessive and prevent you from making yourself worse. It requires effort, but it's going to be worth it. You said you didn't have severe HPPD until you learned what that was: that's a sign of fear exacerbating the problem.

 

[MysteriousOne]

Wow thanks for all the amazing replies guys. You've all really reassured me that one day I'll be back to my old self again. The fact that most of you think the root of my problem is anxiety as opposed to HPPD offers me some optimism as anxiety is probably easier to treat.

In response to your question Tranced, I've suffered from anxiety for as long as I remember. I used to uncontrollably worry about my little sisters whereabouts whenever I couldn't see her when I was as young as 8/9. Then when I was 11/12 I developed a phobia of being sick when I suffered a case of labrynthitos (even though I was never actually sick). This phobia took years to fade but now it's completely gone. I've only ever been sick once since this phobia developed and it was last year when I was tripping my tits off on AMT.

But then throughout my teenage years and now into adulthood I've had quite a moderate case of health anxiety, which is also possibly what this is. I've thought I had everything from ball cancer to HIV to a brain tumour, constantly googling the symptoms, which is pretty much what I've done for this. The thing that set my mind at rest for all those things was when I went to the doctors and got tests done, although sometimes I would get second opinions because I wouldn't believe the test. The problem with HPPD is you can't test for it, so my thinking over the last few months has been that I'll never be able to set my mind at rest from it.

But it seems that if I don't think about the symptoms I barely notice them, apart from them damn floaters. So hopefully when my anxiety is completely under control (eventually), so too will the visuals.

 

[Stupidk]

Wow thanks for all the amazing replies guys. You've all really reassured me that one day I'll be back to my old self again. The fact that most of you think the root of my problem is anxiety as opposed to HPPD offers me some optimism as anxiety is probably easier to treat.

In response to your question Tranced, I've suffered from anxiety for as long as I remember. I used to uncontrollably worry about my little sisters whereabouts whenever I couldn't see her when I was as young as 8/9. Then when I was 11/12 I developed a phobia of being sick when I suffered a case of labrynthitos (even though I was never actually sick). This phobia took years to fade but now it's completely gone. I've only ever been sick once since this phobia developed and it was last year when I was tripping my tits off on AMT.

But then throughout my teenage years and now into adulthood I've had quite a moderate case of health anxiety, which is also possibly what this is. I've thought I had everything from ball cancer to HIV to a brain tumour, constantly googling the symptoms, which is pretty much what I've done for this. The thing that set my mind at rest for all those things was when I went to the doctors and got tests done, although sometimes I would get second opinions because I wouldn't believe the test. The problem with HPPD is you can't test for it, so my thinking over the last few months has been that I'll never be able to set my mind at rest from it.

But it seems that if I don't think about the symptoms I barely notice them, apart from them damn floaters. So hopefully when my anxiety is completely under control (eventually), so too will the visuals.

how are yoy now? I?m going through similar symtptoms. Only see static on walls or if I look for it. Only see floaters in bright lights like the sky or white wall. Sometimes very rarely I see flashes of light like a light beam. Also have headaches and anxiety. Someone help.