Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

[turkalurk]

a troll is someone who makes shit up to gain attention.

 

[swilow]

a troll is someone who makes shit up to gain attention.

True.

Foreverafter's Laotian midget thread was an invention to stimulate discussion so, gladly, we can confirm that he wasn't really being a troll according to your defintion and your insults are baseless. Lets move on now.

 

[turkalurk]

I'm trans-racial.
I'm hesitant to post this thread, because everyone I've ever talked to about this issue has - so far - passed it off as as a joke...
I feel like I have to pretend that it's not a serious issue, for me, and "hide behind the joke".
Consequently, I feel like nobody has ever truly known me...

I feel like people are pretty open-minded and patient here, but I don't expect to encounter much understanding.
Unless you've experienced it first hand, you don't really know what it's like to be an Asian in a Caucasian's body.

It seems like I'd be taken more seriously if I was trans-gender, which isn't fair.
I mean, why is it more legitimate to identify as a different gender?

I know I'm Asian.
I've always been Asian.
My skin tone is wrong.
My hair colour...
Eye colour...
All wrong.
And, I'm too tall.

I wish I felt comfortable talking to my family about this.
I'm afraid to even talk to a doctor about it.

Why are people so narrow-minded and quick to judge?

sorry, he clearly presents this as a serious thread. Its either he was serious or he was lying. He claims to be lying, therefore it was a troll thread. He is an admitted prankster hence where the name "troll" came to describe people on the internet that make up stories for entertainment value.

 

[turkalurk]

Really? I don't eat meat, and it literally takes away zero time that could otherwise be devoted to other activities. No one's really been arguing that dietary practices trump other ethical concerns, as there's no reason that this argument needs to be made.




Honestly, you seem to be getting highly irritated that people are not taking offense at your posts. I find this one of the most insufferable of personality-traits, but that's just me; I hope that I've somehow misappraised the situation.

ebola

maybe you are projecting because I am not at all irritated. You seem irritated, though, as you mention being afflicted with one of the most insufferable of personality traits. More shit talking I suppose. Good job!

 

[ebola?]

Off-topic:

maybe you are projecting because I am not at all irritated.

Ah, cool. That makes me wonder, though, why you were so quick to steer conversation back toward open contention on the last couple of pages. It certainly didn't seem to be in the service of proving any particular point.

You seem irritated, though, as you mention being afflicted with one of the most insufferable of personality traits.

So...you're saying that I get irritated when people fail to take offense at me? Er...maybe, though it doesn't really seem like it. But of course I'm irritated: I really don't enjoy being called on to act in a disciplinary role.

More shit talking I suppose. Good job!

So... this is what passes for wit nowadays? Really, you shouldn't go so far as to make invalid inferences in the service of fashioning snazzy-sounding rhetoric. . .

ebola

 

[Journyman16]

Funny, how you took that out of context.

Given you posted before me and after me, I presume this is aimed at me.

Try reading... it is edifying. I quoted you (the part you chose NOT to re-quote) because Murphy said there is nothing to show you are not vegan and you quite clearly state you are not. You also eat game as well as molluscs. So no matter what the 'debate' is about molluscs, you clearly state you are NOT vegan and you also state you eat meat.

Whether or not you show a level of cowardice by claiming veganism because you don't want to be truthful about not wanting to eat what others are having is up to you, but YOU STATE you are not a vegan.

​I am not a vegan, I just refer to myself as one for convenience sake.

So maybe read what is being said instead of trying to pick a fight over something you clearly said and were quoted on.

Oh... and BTW... there is certainly a term for what you are.

ready for it...?

Omnivore! :D (just like the rest of us)

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

The best case scenario is you being upset about something, turk.
I assume, for your sake, that you are upset and you can't admit it (because of pride).
I mean: if that's not the case - then, what? - you're just being unpleasant for the sake of it?
I, honestly, think you're better than that... Maybe you're not; maybe, I'm being naive.

You're wrong about the Laotian midget thread and your efforts to tarnish my name fall flat.
Even if you had a point, you've lost credibility due to your consistently immature and antagonistic attitudes.
You've sabotaged your own ability to be taken seriously, but it can be quite easily repaired.

Tone it down, a bit.
This is the vegetarian thread.
It isn't the place to discuss other unrelated threads, like the Laotian midget thread.
And, it isn't the place to repeatedly attempt to discredit and insult other members.
Maybe you should go to the Lounge, when you get an urge to do this?
(Keep in mind, though, they will rip you a new asshole.)

I suspect it's pointless trying to reason with you, but my faith in other people never dies.
Here's hoping that you read this and something clicks in your brain.

Pranksters are not trolls.
I started the thread to facilitate discussion and to make people laugh.
There's nothing wrong with that, despite how hard you try to spin it so there is.

you clearly state you are NOT vegan and you also state you eat meat.

Whether or not you show a level of cowardice by claiming veganism because you don't want to be truthful about not wanting to eat what others are having is up to you, but YOU STATE you are not a vegan.

Yeah I know what I said. I'm not vegan and I just use the term for convenience sake.
I've been saying that, consistently, for almost 6 months now.
If you think I'm a coward, that's fine. You don't know me.

If there's anything else you need to get out of your system, please do it now.
That goes for you, too, turk... Let's not draw this out over the next month.
Just string all your of insults together and fire away.
They have no effect on me; I don't care.

Oh... and BTW... there is certainly a term for what you are.

ready for it...?

Omnivore! (just like the rest of us)

I never said anything to the contrary. In fact:

I'm not denying that I am an omnivore... I'm saying that despite the fact that I am an omnivore...

I have been very clear about the so-called hypocrisy.

(I'm wrapping all off topic discussion with nsfw tags, to reduce forum congestion.)

 

[nuttynutskin]

a troll is someone who makes shit up to gain attention.

I never even would have posted in this thread until he posted an obvious troll post under a meal I posted in one of the Healthy Living threads out of nowhere because he obviously was still harboring anger by things I posted in his raw mussels thread MONTHS ago I guess. I mean, this is the internet and everyone is going to be facetious once in a while, but from what I've seen he just goes out of his way to instigate and provoke people, then when called out tries to make himself look like he's superior.

Tone it down, a bit.
This is the vegetarian thread.
It isn't the place to discuss other unrelated threads, like the Laotian midget thread.
And, it isn't the place to repeatedly attempt to discredit and insult other members.

Funny, you've done the exact same thing to me and probably other members. Projection much?

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

I never even would have posted in this thread until he posted an obvious troll post under a meal I posted in one of the Healthy Living threads out of nowhere because he obviously was still harboring anger by things I posted in his raw mussels thread MONTHS ago I guess. I mean, this is the internet and everyone is going to be facetious once in a while, but from what I've seen he just goes out of his way to instigate and provoke people, then when called out tries to make himself look like he's superior.

I didn't mean any offense in that HL thread, and I had no idea who you were (or that you had posted stuff in my oyster thread) when I made that comment about your username... I was stoned. Perhaps I shouldn't have said it. I apologize... I've since gone back to the oyster thread and now I remember our interactions. I'm not going to bother quoting them in this thread, because we've gone far enough off topic, but they stand for themselves. You were being weirdly antagonistic back then, too: calling my diet asinine; implying that I'm insane; telling me I have an eating disorder; and, repeatedly making statements in capital letters.

Like I said, I'm sorry about that single comment I made. If my username was cockycockskin, though, I'd expect - occasionally - for people to react to that... (even though cock can also mean rooster).

It isn't the place to discuss other unrelated threads, like the Laotian midget thread.
And, it isn't the place to repeatedly attempt to discredit and insult other members.

Funny, you've done the exact same thing to me and probably other members. Projection much?

I'm not perfect, but I don't think I've discussed other unrelated threads, unless I'm defending myself and responding directly to attempts to discredit me / inflammatory comments about other threads. I certainly haven't attempted to discredit people in this thread by trolling through their post history and referencing other threads... But, yeah, I've been inappropriate in the past / and in other threads.

That doesn't mean I'm projecting.
My doing wrong doesn't justify you doing wrong, nor does it make your wrongs right.
This squabbling has gone on for multiple pages. Can we move on, yet?
I mean, how long is this going to take?

(I'm wrapping all off topic discussion with nsfw tags, to reduce forum congestion.)

...

I'm going to buy a chicken in a couple of weeks, bond with it, and then decapitate it.
My girlfriend is not happy about this, but it needs to be done.

I suspect that it is going to be the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life.

 

[Journyman16]

Yeah I know what I said. I'm not vegan and I just use the term for convenience sake.
I've been saying that, consistently, for almost 6 months now.
If you think I'm a coward, that's fine. You don't know me.

I wasn't talking about whether or not you are vegan, I am pointing out you decided to have a go at me because I quoted YOU in response to murphy claiming there was nothing to show you are NOT a vegan. You didn't read it properly (or just saw my name and decided to have a go) and posted.

And yes, although once again you aren't reading properly - I specifically did NOT call you a coward - you seem to spend a lot of time not being truthful with others and personally I wouldn't have dinner with someone I didn't respect enough to be truthful and say, "nothing on here I want to eat" and instead lying to them.

Imagine how they feel about you when they later see you eating your maccas or KFC?

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

I quoted you (the part you chose NOT to re-quote) because Murphy said there is nothing to show you are not vegan and you quite clearly state you are not. You also eat game as well as molluscs.

It was quite clear when Murphy said what he did, that - although not technically vegan - molluscs might as well be included in the vegan diet. You have to take into account, sometimes, when reading his posts, that English is not his first language... But, in this case, it's not difficult to decipher. The word mollusc was in his two-sentence post, so your comment - in bold - makes little to no sense to me.

once again you aren't reading properly

Maybe you aren't.

I specifically did NOT call you a coward

No, you said "whether or not I'm a coward".
I never said that you called me a coward.

I said "If you think I'm a coward".
My point was: either way, I don't care.

(I'm wrapping all off topic discussion with nsfw tags, to reduce forum congestion.)

...

personally I wouldn't have dinner with someone I didn't respect enough to be truthful and say, "nothing on here I want to eat" and instead lying to them.

Imagine how they feel about you when they later see you eating your maccas or KFC?

One of the reasons I don't go into my diet, socially, is because I want to avoid politics. Saying that I don't want to do what they (the people I'm dining with) are doing, because I think it is ethically wrong, might be misinterpreted - as it has in this thread - as ethical elitism... I don't spend much time outside of this thread discussing my selective veganism, because I'd rather not upset people. (That doesn't apply to this thread, of course, because it is the topic we are discussing and it cannot be avoided.)

It's also awkward, particularly in non-vegan restaurants, to ask waiters a lot of questions about the source of meat and the presence of milk or cheese. There tends to be a lot of unexplained animosity towards vegans, as evidenced on this thread... There's no need to call me a liar or suggest that my friends and family are unworthy of my respect. I don't think that's called for.

As for the "how would they feel" comment: personally, if somebody I met said they were vegan and then I saw them eating meat I'd assume that they either relapsed or decided to stop being a vegan. I wouldn't condemn them as liars or untrustworthy people. I'm not quick to judge people, like that.

...

What does vegan mean, anyway? Beyond the basic literal definition, I mean. A fundamentalist vegan will not consume honey or any animal products under any circumstances. Somebody who lives by the tenants of ethical veganism (to not inflict suffering on animals) may make exceptions when suffering is not implied by consumption...

I am a vegan (according to how I classify it), and I'm not (according to how you do). It doesn't matter how many times somebody insists that I'm not technically a vegan, according to the commonly accepted definition of the word... Do you go around interrogating homosexuals about their sexual history in order to determine whether or not they fit into your preconceived ideas of what a homosexual is? I mean, who cares really? If they want to identify as gay, that's up to them. I identify as vegan.

I also identify as Buddhist and Christian, even though I don't go to temple or church.
In the end, they're just words... and I don't give a fuck what the word police have to say about it.

What does Christian mean?
Do I have to be a fundamentalist to qualify?
Or is it different, somehow?

 

[nuttynutskin]

I didn't mean any offense in that HL thread, and I had no idea who you were (or that you had posted stuff in my oyster thread) when I made that comment about your username...

I thought it was mussels? Either way I don't believe you.

I'm not perfect, but I don't think I've discussed other unrelated threads, unless I'm defending myself and responding directly to attempts to discredit me / inflammatory comments about other threads. I certainly haven't attempted to discredit people in this thread by trolling through their post history and referencing other threads...

You're full of it. You were the first one to instigate me in that thread for no reason. When I fired back not only did you make another direct go at me regarding my Revelations thread, you also misquoted me. Don't dish it out if you can't take it...

Coming from the guy saying that the world is coming to an end, as predicted by Revelations...
And that there are eerie similarities between the four horsemen of the apocalypse and the modern world?

I'll continue eating my bean-curd nut sack (before the rapture strikes) if it's all the same to you.

I'm going to buy a chicken in a couple of weeks, bond with it, and then decapitate it.
My girlfriend is not happy about this, but it needs to be done.

Strong vegan... Trollolololol

Face it dude, you're a crackpot and self admitted liar. I feel sorry for anyone who takes you seriously.

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

Either way I don't believe you.

I don't care.

You're full of it. You were the first one to instigate me in that thread for no reason. When I fired back you made another direct go at me regarding my Revelations thread. Don't dish it out if you can't take it...

In the HL thread, you told me to "get off the bath salts"... and I made one comment - a single sentence - about the Revelations thread, to put into perspective whether or not my mental health was (relatively) questionable... I have not, in this thread, or any other, trolled through somebody's post history and made such persistent efforts to universally discredit and insult them as you have here.

I'm not sure if you didn't believe me when I told you that I don't care.

Face it dude, you're a... crackpot / self admitted liar.

I'm quite happy to film the decapitation and post it in this thread, if that will satisfy you... I'll write my username - ForEverAfter - on a card and chop off the chicken's head directly on top of it. I'm not a liar, any more than your average person is. I have a weird sense of humor. I'm a strange person. A crackpot? Maybe. But everybody lies. Surely, you must admit that. Those who say they don't lie are lying.

I feel sorry for anyone who takes you seriously.

That's uncalled for. You feel sorry for my friends and family because they can differentiate between when I'm joking and when I'm being serious?

Strong vegan.

I've contributed to the deaths of so many animals, at a distance. I want to experience one of them, close up. I want to know what I've been doing. I want to see it. I've been talking about doing this, with my girlfriend, for a couple of months now. She has insisted to not be present, during the execution... I'll be doing it in about two weeks. Let me know if you want me to film it, for this thread.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I'm quite happy to film the decapitation and post it in this thread, if that will satisfy you... I'll write my username - ForEverAfter - on a card and chop off the chicken's head directly on top of it. I'm not a liar, any more than your average person is. I have a weird sense of humor. I'm a strange person. A crackpot? Maybe. But everybody lies. Surely, you must admit that. Those who say they don't lie are lying.

Oy vey... Will it satisfy me? Satisfy what? I don't care what you do. I've seen animals killed and butchered, I don't know what you think you would be trying to prove. Believe it or not I don't have anything against vegetarians or vegans, I just hate hypocrisy. If you're only vegan when it's convenient then I would argue that you don't have very much resolve and that indeed you aren't vegan, just like anyone else claiming to be something but not living it. And I still don't understand your need to hold onto your false terminology, like vegans are somehow morally superior to everyone else and you'd lose something special by calling yourself an omnivore, which you are. Seems pretty narcissistic really.

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

You've been arguing with me about the word vegan for how many months? (3 / 4 months?)

As socko said, on the 10th of January, 2015:

He's just not a strict, fundamentalist vegan. Nothing wrong with that. None of the Vegan Police who are complaining on here can do anything about it.

(Thanks, socko.)

...

And here is you, nutty, about 100 days ago:

VEGANS DON'T EAT SHELLFISH... YOU'RE NOT VEGAN!!!

...

This is the OP from that thread, almost 6 months ago.

I'm on a raw food vegan diet. I don't consume processed food or any products with added sugar.
Basically, a combination of: beans, sprouts, seeds, nuts, legumes, fruits, vegetables & fungi.
I only drink water, freshly squeezed juice, and natural mineral water.

Previously, with this sort of diet, I'd take iron and b12 supplements. But, this time, I don't want to.
I want to maintain a completely natural diet for a year.

I can't consume fortified cereals, because I'm gluten intolerant.
And, I'm not comfortable with consuming soy.

So, my solution is: 6 oysters, every 6 days... (Although technically not vegan, oysters aren't sentient.)

My question is, I guess: is this enough B12?

Also: can I get away with consuming six times my recommended daily dose, every six days? (I assumed it would be okay to do this, because of weekly B12 supplements.) Or is it different with supplements? Do I need to consume B12 containing foods every day? What if I double the number of oysters and consume a dozen per week?

I apologize if this has already been covered. I couldn't find the specific answers I needed.

Thanks, in advance.
-4ea

...

I just hate hypocrisy. If you're only vegan when it's convenient then I would say that you don't have very much resolve and that indeed you aren't vegan

How many more months are you going to repeat this rather petty and inconsequential distinction?
We disagree about a word. Get over it, already. It's not the end of the fucking world.

I don't know what you think you would be trying to prove.

That I'm not a liar.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Admits to lying, says they're not a liar...

 

[ForEverAfter]

NSFW:

I'm not sure what you think I lied about.
And, lying once or twice doesn't make you a liar.

Can we continue this via PM?
People actually want to use this thread to discuss the topic.

That picture is pretty funny, by the way.
It reminds me of Stan's clone from an early South Park episode.

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/15887869228/why-veganism-should-move-beyond-no-animal

 

[Ninae]

yeah, that makes sense. Absolutism when its convenient. Argue a person to death and then change your position.

See, that's where I don't have a problem unlike some. I can't believe how so many are crawling and almost feel they have to apologise for a vegetarian diet because it offends the majority. So what, it's not going to hurt them and only does them good to have something to think about.

But I don't exactly care about being socially correct so someone can't really get to me in that sense. Even if some of my lifestyle is extreme, who's to say I'm crazy and they're not the crazy ones? People are so afraid of social judgement, I don't get it. It's just amusing how a small minority choosing to live in a different way can rile up so many and make them feel uncomfortable.

I mean, it's almost hilarious how even belonging to the vast majority or as good as 99% of our culture isn't enough for some. I wonder how much it really takes for some to feel socially accepted, but it would never occur to me to be aplogetic just because I've made a small effort to make some positive changes in the world.

 

[ForEverAfter]

It's weird. I feel bad for doing what I think is the right thing.
Like I go over to my parents house for dinner, and I always have to remind my mum that I'm vegan.
She doesn't like it. She doesn't think it's healthy. She wants me to eat meat for the rest of my life.
She has this look in her eyes, when we discuss it, that I can't quite put my finger on.
It's as if she's asking, "Do you think I'm a bad person?"
It's a little heart-breaking. Of course I don't judge her.
She is my mother.

 

[Ninae]

What happens a lot of the time is that people will beat someone down for distancing themselves from the common meat-diet, just to make sure they won't be able to patronise them in any way, so many end up acting apologetic for their choices.

People also have all sorts of imaginative ways to argue it's actually less environmentally friendly, less ethical, and less healthy, for the same reason or to make themselves come out superior. When if the truth was really shone on these things that just wouldn't be possible, but ignorance is also a big part of it.

But it's a good example of how things can be so twisted around in this world that, sometimes, if you're doing the opposite of the majority you're on the right track.