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Veganism/vegetarianism and "ethical" lifestyle choices

the precepts are the moral rules. theres no interpretation here when it comes to the precepts.

she is talking about moral choice and indeed, every choice/actions we make must be examined with the right intent and must never however contredict the precepts.
if you break a precepts, suffering will follow.

turkalurk said:
Karma Lekshe Tsomo, a professor of theology and a nun in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, explains,"There are no moral absolutes in Buddhism and it is recognized that ethical decision-making involves a complex nexus of causes and conditions. 'Buddhism' encompasses a wide spectrum of beliefs and practices, and the canonical scriptures leave room for a range of interpretations. All of these are grounded in a theory of intentionality, and individuals are encouraged to analyze issues carefully for themselves. ... When making moral choices, individuals are advised to examine their motivation--whether aversion, attachment, ignorance, wisdom, or compassion--and to weigh the consequences of their actions in light of the Buddha's teachings."
-http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/morality1.htm
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however, some precepts are much much worse to break then others.
killing or hurting is very bad
lying is less bad
ect
 
Ninae said:
Simply if it hurts yourself or anyone else. But lack of understanding of what is good and bad can lead to just as many problems as bad intentions. That's a way of having "shady moral values" too.

So, as you would say, it shouldn't be that hard to grasp (and please don't answear with something like "But raping someone can be good for me so who's to say it's not good and bad?" Just no).
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Has nothing to do with it being good or bad for anyone.

Why is hurting another person wrong?

(And don't reply with something like "if you can't figure that out for yourself then you lack the ability to empathize. I am perfectly capable of empathy, and have a sense for what is right and what is wrong. That is not the issue at hand. The issue is why it is right or wrong.)

Just because you feel something is true, does not make it true.
 
Yes rape is bad for the person being raped we can all agree. Unless you like the sort of thing, there is a fetish for everything. I would certainly say it is wrong for me to do, but it exists si there is place for it in the grand scheme of things. A lesson about the way of the world that motivates progress in an unusual way by teaching us about actions and their consequences, or by providing a mechanism for how characteristics that provide strength can combine with the charactistics or empathy and compassion. Sometimes out of the most vile of circumstances even something of value can emerge from the ashes. Even raped women can birth beautiful human beings that can put the power of their father to a good and righteous use. He might decide to be fight crime and be the protector of the innocent.
 
what you feel is true if what you feel affects you. objectively, everything we feel shall change, but if you feel something negative, it makes your reality negative for as long as you feel it.

maybe you meant think? what you think is true doesnt make it true? and that I agree. we think a lot of things that isnt true at all.

RichardMooner said:
Has nothing to do with it being good or bad for anyone.

Why is hurting another person wrong?

(And don't reply with something like "if you can't figure that out for yourself then you lack the ability to empathize. I am perfectly capable of empathy, and have a sense for what is right and what is wrong. That is not the issue at hand. The issue is why it is right or wrong.)

Just because you feel something is true, does not make it true.
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When the overwhelming majority of humanity feels something is really wrong, and it goes against our conscience, it is generally wrong. I don't see any need to debate with someone whether murder and other ways of hurting people is wrong. If you can't relate to that you have a deeper problem.

You might not be able to feel what is true but that is the only way we really have. Empathy lies in the heart. Not in the rational mind (although if you're sane it should be understood there too).

RichardMooner said:
Just because you feel something is true, does not make it true.
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I could feel something was off with you.
 
I doubt that changes his opinion.
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It should, because what he said doesn't make any sense.

murphy said:
I believe in moral absolutes and so far, no one ever convince me otherwise.

What are the objective moral absolutes of the universe?
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(1) dont kill
(2) dont steal
(3) dont take something that was not offered.
(4) dont hurt emotionally someone or speak if your intention is to hurt another being.
(5) dont lie
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I'm not sure I agree with 4 and a definitely don't agree with 5, but - otherwise - we're more or less on the same page. The first three need a bit of tweaking...

1) Like I said earlier, you can't condemn killing across the board. You need to kill viruses and plants to live. If we, as a species, refused to kill anything - including potential threats, bacterial life forms and plant-life - then we'd struggle to survive.

2/3) And it's not absolutely wrong to steal, in all possible situations. If you're going to starve to death and you still a loaf of bread, as the classic example goes, that's not unquestionably wrong... assuming that you asked first and it was denied of you. To believe, absolutely, that taking anything that doesn't belong to you - in any given situation - is problematic.

4) The fourth isn't clear enough for me to accept it absolutely. Sometimes you need to say things to people that will hurt people.

5) And, the fifth... It is not absolutely wrong to lie, is it? There are many exceptions to this. If a little girl's mother has been ripped apart by a gang of bloodthirsty cannibalistic rapists and the girl says "What happened to mommy? I want to know everything!" do you tell her?

...

A) It is absolutely wrong to kill people, unless it is in self-defense.
B) It is absolutely wrong to rape.
C) It is absolutely wrong to steal, assuming that you do not need whatever you're stealing to survive.

These clauses/exceptions are important.
The wording needs to be clear. Otherwise, it's dangerous.
(I don't think there are any exceptions with rape.)

Why is hurting another person wrong?

(And don't reply with something like "if you can't figure that out for yourself then you lack the ability to empathize. I am perfectly capable of empathy, and have a sense for what is right and what is wrong. That is not the issue at hand. The issue is why it is right or wrong.)
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Empathy is involved in the reasoning. It is wrong because we know we wouldn't like it... We are smart enough to recognize the pain it causes other people and smart enough to recognize that we, too, are people... and - finally - smart enough to put 2 and 2 together.

I've already said this. We know it is wrong, because we wouldn't like it done to us.
You can't absolutely separate feelings and logic into two distinct categories that don't overlap.
 
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murphythecat said:
the precepts are the moral rules. theres no interpretation here when it comes to the precepts.

she is talking about moral choice and indeed, every choice/actions we make must be examined with the right intent and must never however contredict the precepts.
if you break a precepts, suffering will follow.


however, some precepts are much much worse to break then others.
killing or hurting is very bad
lying is less bad
ect
Click to expand...

No, itS hard to tell if any of those are bad taken out of their context and applied as abolutes. There are no moral absolutes in Buddhism. You did read that part, right? Attachment to precepts seem like Ego to me, but I am not a Buddhist. I am just someone who minored in Philosophy.
 
all those things have been covered over and over in buddhist tradition. those exemption are interesting and I agree, but theres a lot of if and buts. dhammawheel is a great forum and you can google: killing virus dhammawheel and you will see a lot of threads talking about that, and all the other topic youve mentioned.

for example, the girls asking what happened to her mother, you dont have to lie, nothing happened, you can say we will tell you in due time. ect.
but again, really, make some research of your own as all those points are very valid but have been answered countless of times!
 
yes, the precepts are moral absolutes.
however, like Tsomo said, we must look at each context differently. but if the intention of someone is to kill, steal, lie, hurt ect, suffering is bound to happen each and every time. like foreverafter said, and I agree, there are situation where confilct may arise.
if you kill something that try to kill you, the intention was to protect yourself, not to kill. therefore, we cannot judge any situation, the only person who can judge and know for sure is the person doing the action as he only can know his true intentions.
.
turkalurk said:
No, itS hard to tell if any of those are bad taken out of their context and applied as abolutes. There are no moral absolutes in Buddhism. You did read that part, right? Attachment to precepts seem like Ego to me, but I am not a Buddhist. I am just someone who minored in Philosophy.
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He's right.

You don't seem to know much about Buddhism, for a self-proclaimed Buddhist.
I suspect that you've read a limited amount and applied it fundamentally to your life.
That's how you come across, anyway.

The other day you said that re-incarnation has nothing to do with Buddhism.

Google the keywords: moral absolutes buddhism.
Spend a couple of minutes reading.
 
This reminds me of the saying "You will first be free when you align your will with the will of God or you choose to follow divine law by your own free will".

Meaning, from then on you will only want to do good so only good things will happen to you. Also called achieving liberation from the cycle of suffering. A powerful truth, but one that can be hard for humanity to accept.

At least I can't see it any other way, in all honesty.
 
ForEverAfter said:
He's right.

You don't seem to know much about Buddhism, for a self-proclaimed Buddhist.
I suspect that you've read a limited amount and applied it fundamentally to your life.
That's how you come across, anyway.

The other day you said that re-incarnation has nothing to do with Buddhism.

Google the keywords: moral absolutes buddhism.
Spend a couple of minutes reading.
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whatever dude, if it makes you feel great to think that! however, from how many conversation on the subject, its quite clear your understanding of buddhism is very limited and you seem to be mixed up.
I suggest ayya khema books, ajahn chah, ajahn brahm and dhamma wheel forum for any question you may have.

re incarnation is not a buddhist concept. google it ;)
 
murphythecat said:
all those things have been covered over and over in buddhist tradition. those exemption are interesting and I agree, but theres a lot of if and buts. dhammawheel is a great forum and you can google: killing virus dhammawheel and you will see a lot of threads talking about that, and all the other topic youve mentioned.

for example, the girls asking what happened to her mother, you dont have to lie, nothing happened, you can say we will tell you in due time. ect.
but again, really, make some research of your own as all those points are very valid but have been answered countless of times!
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You are the one who needs to do research. If you say it is absolutely wrong to lie, then say unless (fill in blank): you have just contradicted yourself and in essence told a lie(said something untrue). If it absolute, it stands on its own with no exceptions to the rule.
 
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Ninae said:
When the overwhelming majority of humanity feels something is really wrong, and it goes against our conscience, it is generally wrong. I don't see any need to debate with someone whether murder and other ways of hurting people is wrong. If you can't relate to that you have a deeper problem.

You might not be able to feel what is true but that is the only way we really have. Empathy lies in the heart. Not in the rational mind (although if you're sane it should be understood there too).



I could feel something was off with you.
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You won't sit here and debate why something is objectively right or wrong because you cannot. You have no argument.
 
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