Fucked up on heroin big time. Need urgent help. Please

[Shambles]

^

It's also interesting that as barbs fell out-of favour, benzos became the "panacea " for anti-convulsant, anti-anxiolitic, anti-depressant, anti-everything..... Fast forward 30 years or so and benzos are now themselves seem as the literal work of Satan in the eyes of many prescribers as well....how times change.

Which, miraculously, coincided with widespread prescribing of pregabalin and such. Which is definitely, definitely non-recreational nor addictive. FACT!

Its like that, if "persons" does not stop it, then nobody can stop it. And she knows what heroin is, because i know she is not weak. Vast numbers die in 2 --5 years of hard heroin addiction. So she has to just try hard to get over it. I understand hardcore addiction - then we cant help at forum?

I would like to think that I am neither entirely stupid nor pathetically weak. However, I was very much addicted to heroin and crack for over a decade whilst knowing full damn well how much of a shithouse the whole thing was. Could an internet forum have prevented at least some of that? No idea. But I suspect it would've helped cos I'd've had wider input into questions I raised - regardless of whether or not I already knew the answers - cos peer pressure works both ways.

Also, it never hurts to see the truth. Actually it does but never for long if you're worth a wank. Even if you say "Fuck you I'm doing it anyway!!!" at least you've been exposed to reality along the way. That was not always the case cos there was a straight choice between government bullshit and dealer bullshit and you mostly pick the one that makes you feel good no matter what. Reality bites, as they say. In all interpretations of the phrase.

Addiction has fuck all to do with intelligence, awareness or even will-power (to a point). It's a complex beast which encompasses elements of all of those plus a shitload of other personal quirks. Reductionism is not helpful in additction discussions. Reductio ad abdurdum = 12 Steps. And religious cults have precious little value in my book

 

[Pagey]

Well, my medical records really aren't an issue because I've had two ODs about a year apart which both required time in the ICU so I'm down as a drug user anyway.
I am up for detox. And I have detoxed - I'm away from England atm and don't have the number of my old smack dealer here. Problem is I don't want to quit. I hate my life as it is right now and all I want to do is go back to that numbness. It's all I can think about

 

[Sammy G]

Terrible feeling, but one I'm fighting too.

I don't have much good advice. I drink whiskey, smoke weed and listen to ancient Irish ballads. It helps, but it ain't the same.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Tbf, the insurance and records are a point worth mentioning- especially if the person is speaking from their personal experience. Professional help may not help everyone- I'm not sure of figures for success rates? And I'm not sure of figures for people who "professional" help has actually made matters worse re: combating heroin addiction.

Tis not b & w. Though I would imagine it's nearly always a good idea to seek help from professionals.

I agree with you on all those points, but specifically recommending someone to stay away from pro help even though they might need it on the basis of insurance premiums is really poor. Sure, mention it as a consideration in the decision, but to say definitely don't consider the option because of that is terrible advice. Like you say, it's not that black and white.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Same goes for the med record thing. If you're actually in need of help you shouldn't be worrying about your medical records, the only thing a blotch on the copybook means is that you are unlikely to be able to blag scripts easily for a while. If you genuinely need meds you will still get them anyway, I've got a script for DHC having only come off a bupe script just over six months ago.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Really really shitty hr.

 

[pjd555]

I must agree with Shambles when it comes to 12 step, happy-clappy dog and pony shows. There is no evidence they are effective in any way. They contribute to people believing stupidity like "once an addict, always an addict". The idea that you become a lifelong recovering addict and falling off the wagon makes you an addict who loses his badge is unconscionable. People have committed suicide because of shame they feel amongst their peers in these crazy programs. For 9 months, the stresses of life had me drinking between 700ml and 1200ml of whiskey a day, every day. I was an alcoholic. I had it treated medically and in confidence with the help of a couple of colleagues and fifteen years later my wife and I will have a couple of bottles of wine in a restaurant and I have a few pints of Guinness at the monthly pub quiz. I am not a recovering alcoholic. I was once an alcoholic.

 

[BigG]

I agree with that mate.. I've been in pain management for nearly 20 years on very high doses of opiates... My last regime was 180 mg physeptone tablets (after fent patches failed to help)... Anyway that wasn't compatible with being on the road as a paramedic so I just stopped.... They thought-out going to NA and being filled with all that utter bullshit was unthinkable (for me)..
Yes I was opiate dependent. And yes I occasionally took more than prescribed but I never though of myself as an addict then or now...
Stopping that much meds after 20 years was hard but I managed it. I probably should have sought help through occ health but I was never comfortable with approaching then since I didn't want to be labeled an addict...especially as I have personal issue morphine and stuff.
Maybe that's irrational on my part but it's more what others might think of me that bothered me....
Make of that what you will I suppose.

 

[pjd555]

I agree with that mate.. I've been in pain management for nearly 20 years on very high doses of opiates... My last regime was 180 mg physeptone tablets (after fent patches failed to help)... Anyway that wasn't compatible with being on the road as a paramedic so I just stopped.... They thought-out going to NA and being filled with all that utter bullshit was unthinkable (for me)..
Yes I was opiate dependent. And yes I occasionally took more than prescribed but I never though of myself as an addict then or now...
Stopping that much meds after 20 years was hard but I managed it. I probably should have sought help through occ health but I was never comfortable with approaching then since I didn't want to be labeled an addict...especially as I have personal issue morphine and stuff.
Maybe that's irrational on my part but it's more what others might think of me that bothered me....
Make of that what you will I suppose.

The label is a major problem and I don't want to appear xenophobic but the stigma associated with that label has its improper stature because of 50 years of American moral panic that has led it to threaten democratic allies with opioid quota cuts if they don't join in with the madness (let me be explicit here; that means the US has said to some countries "we will put you in a position where you cannot give effective palliative care to cancer patients if you follow a different approach to addiction") . Addiction can happen to anyone regardless of education, wealth or any other factor. Stigmatising addiction shames addicts and diminishes their self-worth.

 

[Shambles]

I must agree with Shambles when it comes to 12 step, happy-clappy dog and pony shows. There is no evidence they are effective in any way. They contribute to people believing stupidity like "once an addict, always an addict". The idea that you become a lifelong recovering addict and falling off the wagon makes you an addict who loses his badge is unconscionable. People have committed suicide because of shame they feel amongst their peers in these crazy programs. For 9 months, the stresses of life had me drinking between 700ml and 1200ml of whiskey a day, every day. I was an alcoholic. I had it treated medically and in confidence with the help of a couple of colleagues and fifteen years later my wife and I will have a couple of bottles of wine in a restaurant and I have a few pints of Guinness at the monthly pub quiz. I am not a recovering alcoholic. I was once an alcoholic.

Hear, hear.

(although that brief period of alcholism may have affected your ability to successfully use the pm system )

Incidentally, for those who do feel they may benefit from some form of structured "recovery" (yes, I also hate that term ) or support with additcion in general only from a firmly secular basis I would recommend SMART Recovery. Kindasorta like 12 Step only with all the shitty bits excised and some actually useful stuff (CBT and other forms of recognised cognitive therapy) added in for good measure.

 

[BigG]

The label is a major problem and I don't want to appear xenophobic but the stigma associated with that label has its improper stature because of 50 years of American moral panic that has led it to threaten democratic allies with opioid quota cuts if they don't join in with the madness (let me be explicit here; that means the US has said to some countries "we will put you in a position where you cannot give effective palliative care to cancer patients if you follow a different approach to addiction") . Addiction can happen to anyone regardless of education, wealth or any other factor. Stigmatising addiction shames addicts and diminishes their self-worth.

Very true... I was just never comfortable admitting to work I needed help. When you are given controlled drugs on trust in order to do your job being labeled an opiate addict is the last think you want....I know it shouldn't be like that as I would never ever consider abusing that trust but would other people realise that?.. Maybe..maybe not...
As a doctor you must know the kind of thing I'm talking about.

 

[pjd555]

I agree with that mate.. I've been in pain management for nearly 20 years on very high doses of opiates... My last regime was 180 mg physeptone tablets (after fent patches failed to help)... Anyway that wasn't compatible with being on the road as a paramedic so I just stopped.... They thought-out going to NA and being filled with all that utter bullshit was unthinkable (for me)..
Yes I was opiate dependent. And yes I occasionally took more than prescribed but I never though of myself as an addict then or now...
Stopping that much meds after 20 years was hard but I managed it. I probably should have sought help through occ health but I was never comfortable with approaching then since I didn't want to be labeled an addict...especially as I have personal issue morphine and stuff.
Maybe that's irrational on my part but it's more what others might think of me that bothered me....
Make of that what you will I suppose.

You were on a pain management regimen which was, at least for some period of time, entirely appropriate and by necessity required dosage increases and opioid rotations. I don't know what condition you had or have but if fear of the 'addict' label made you stop taking medication and you now have to live with pain as a result I feel for you. That final rotation to methadone must have been particularly difficult. It is a feature of patients requiring opioid analgesia that the psychological and nostalgic attraction to opioids is far less powerful than that seen in other opioid addicts. People in pain should never be afraid of becoming an addict if their doctor or pain management team prescribe, rotate or ramp up opioid analgesics.

 

[Allein]

. People in pain should never be afraid of becoming an addict if their doctor or pain management team prescribe, rotate or ramp up opioid analgesics.

This assumes that the medical professionals that the individual has access to are going not going to leave them 'high and dry' with a significant opiate dependency and no script.

I struggled for 3 years with that specter hanging over me, struggling to get GPs to refill scripts and having hospital based pain management teams over ruled by ignorant , so called consultants

 

[BigG]

You were on a pain management regimen which was, at least for some period of time, entirely appropriate and by necessity required dosage increases and opioid rotations. I don't know what condition you had or have but if fear of the 'addict' label made you stop taking medication and you now have to live with pain as a result I feel for you. That final rotation to methadone must have been particularly difficult. It is a feature of patients requiring opioid analgesia that the psychological and nostalgic attraction to opioids is far less powerful than that seen in other opioid addicts. People in pain should never be afraid of becoming an addict if their doctor or pain management team prescribe, rotate or ramp up opioid analgesics.

Yeah I completely agree....Unfortunately not everyone is as well informed and considerate as yourself..... The DVLA certainly aren't.. And when a large part of your job involves driving a 5 tonne ambulance as very high speed, jumping red lights and weaving through city centre traffic on bluelights with someone in cardiac arrest in the back I though it was for the best.
One thing that always worried me was...you know how you have to account for your personal issue morphine and sometimes breakages happen....especially on the road..it's not like in a hospital.... Anyway I always felt that I might be under some kind of suspicion or someone would doubt my story or whatever...

Of course there would be no reason for them to. It was (is) a legitimate joint problem complicated by a previously removed spinal tumour but I was just never...... Well...Never comfortable with it.

As you know fent and methadone are usually last resort rotations and I'm only 40. There are other ways to deal with pain. It's a complicated and decisive issue but some people just don't trust people on opiate pain management and just assume that it means you are somehow untrustworthy and I hated that. I was always more careful with my personal issue CDs than any paramedic I know as I somehow felt I had to be extra careful and stringent somehow......I just hope non of my patients suffered due to my interpretation of the preconceptions of others. I'd like to think they didn't.

I'm having trouble conveying my thoughs on this into words but I hope you understand what I mean.

 

[pjd555]

Very true... I was just never comfortable admitting to work I needed help. When you are given controlled drugs on trust in order to do your job being labeled an opiate addict is the last think you want....I know it shouldn't be like that as I would never ever consider abusing that trust but would other people realise that?.. Maybe..maybe not...
As a doctor you must know the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I do and you have never abused the trust placed in you that allows you to carry and administer morphine. Your colleagues, the doctors and nurses you encounter in your daily life aren't thinking 'drug-seeking junkie' every time they see you but the precise opposite. You have ample opportunity to excuse any disparity between logging and destruction and you haven't. You could point suspicion at a colleague to get morphine for yourself and you haven't. I have access to heroin, fentanyl in many forms and the ability to manipulate PCA devices to steal drugs but I don't. Your colleagues see, every day, that you can be trusted with opioids and they are well-informed enough not to recognise the validity of the label.

 

[MadADD]

I've heard about Loperamide, many people says its nice for WDs. Really takes the edge off.

Might wanna look that up. Good luck

 

[BigG]

Loperamide is complecated it is pumped out through the BBB almost instantly and the only was to achieve any CNS effects involve messing around with Cyp 450 enzyme inhibitors and other things which can be dangerous. Plus it isn't a wonder drug for WDs and can be habbit forming itself.

TBH. mate I wouldn't bother. The only thing that remotely helped me were my scripts for clonidine, pregabalin and diazepam and even then only slightly.
A strong mind and a will to succeed help more than any drug IMHO

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

I must agree with Shambles when it comes to 12 step, happy-clappy dog and pony shows. There is no evidence they are effective in any way. They contribute to people believing stupidity like "once an addict, always an addict". The idea that you become a lifelong recovering addict and falling off the wagon makes you an addict who loses his badge is unconscionable. People have committed suicide because of shame they feel amongst their peers in these crazy programs. For 9 months, the stresses of life had me drinking between 700ml and 1200ml of whiskey a day, every day. I was an alcoholic. I had it treated medically and in confidence with the help of a couple of colleagues and fifteen years later my wife and I will have a couple of bottles of wine in a restaurant and I have a few pints of Guinness at the monthly pub quiz. I am not a recovering alcoholic. I was once an alcoholic.

To play Devil's advocate, they would say you were never an 'addict' in the first place, not by their definition anyway. I'm aware that there is a significant element of ad hominem reasoning in there but at the same time I understand that point of view.

 

[BigG]

I do and you have never abused the trust placed in you that allows you to carry and administer morphine. Your colleagues, the doctors and nurses you encounter in your daily life aren't thinking 'drug-seeking junkie' every time they see you but the precise opposite. You have ample opportunity to excuse any disparity between logging and destruction and you haven't. You could point suspicion at a colleague to get morphine for yourself and you haven't. I have access to heroin, fentanyl in many forms and the ability to manipulate PCA devices to steal drugs but I don't. Your colleagues see, every day, that you can be trusted with opioids and they are well-informed enough not to recognise the validity of the label.

That's very kind of you...Thank you. That makes me feel a bit better actually.

It's funny but some people think that medical professionals such as ourselves who have very easy access to certain drugs would be tempted to "divert" some but that has never even crossed my mind in all these years.....you just wouldn't do it.

It's hard for some people to understand the trust factor and the overwhelming desire to honour that trust..... Again some folk may not understand that but I know you will know exactly what I'm on about.

 

[Shambles]

When you are given controlled drugs on trust in order to do your job being labeled an opiate addict is the last think you want....I know it shouldn't be like that as I would never ever consider abusing that trust but would other people realise that?

As an aside, the above doen't necessarily only apply to "trusted professionals". Somewhere around the height of my addiction myself and an even more deeply addicted friend were tasked with delivering pharmacueticals to hospitals (he was employed as the driver/deliveryman whilst I was along for the ride - we also took the opportunity to hit every pharmacy along the route for bottles of opioid-based cough syrups (Gee's Linctus ftmfw ) as back-up supplies but that is by the bye). This one day my companion was in such severe w/d he shat himself whilst driving (I had to nip into a charity shop to acquire clean kecks for him) yet we still did not touch the fukkin shitload of benzos in the back nor the stack of red CD packages we had in the front. Everybody has their redlines and that was one neither of us wished to cross. Plus, Gee's Linctus awaited so...