swampdragon
Bluelighter
Ooh, erm.. I reckon 3 weeks.
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aMT, Al-Lad, LSz, 5-meo-dalt, (also AH7921+) BANNED from Jan 7th
- Thread starter Si Dread
- Start date
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Yup. Have wondered about this for ages now. Seems utterly bizarre and arse-backwards to jump all over the apparently safer and less easily abused substances like psyches whilst totally ignoraing all the very ropey-seeming stims and a metric fucktonne of legal benzos being sold ultracheap with zero dosage or any other form of safety advice allowed to be provided. The cynical conspiracy-leaning person in me might just conclude that there is deliberate bias for "overlooking" the shonkiest chems that are most likely to get people in trouble hoping for that slew of deaths to trot out in the tabloids that will never be provided by the stuff that is actually being banned. Doesn't look good for WoD policy when there's potent and highly effective analogues of illegal drugs on sale and not actually killing people.
Ah, but that's the point. I don't talk from ignorance, i'll take the drugs, assess them myself and determine an experiential truth. Gosta be better than your employed Frank advisor who get's it from the text book. I've been on this forum on and off for 10 years, so am pretty good at detecting the twisted facts to falsely claim drugs to be more innocent than they are.
However I can't respond to this. If bob Funkhouse says im talking shit, well then it must be so! i'm sorry to waste all of your your time!
ColtDan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 24,876
Yeah you do
oh shock horror, rigourous scientific studies can be found with google. whatever next.
Pretty piss-poor rebuttal, but what I expected from a guy who thinks alcohol is worse for the mental health than acid, and quotes from studies that crack should be legal ahead of booze. Although no-one can argue with Bobfunkhouse's ineffable statements, I will try my very best to redeem a point or 2 tomorrow. going bed now. bye bye
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Raasy you're a smart guy & I appreciate intelligent discourse, particularly when we disagree.
Yes, I stand by my statement that LSz & Al-Lad have caused & are likely to cause close to zero harm. LSD may well have brought psychological crises, in some extremely, extremely rare cases, permanent crises, but even the non-permanent cases are very, very rare. Both LSz & A-Lad however, strictly in my own experience, appear to produce less of the effects I suspect are likely to cause psychological problems. Basically, tripping on these drugs feels less intense on the mind, suggesting to me that they may cause less psychological problems short & long term.
There is no physical risk whatsoever assocaited with these compounds, but alcohol carries numerous phsyical health risks. Sure, if you're a wonderfully rounded individual who drinks a half glass of wine once a week with dinnner, you're prettty unlikely to suffer any consequences, ever. But if you drink socially, to get drunk, you harm your health every single time, & the harm is accumulative. If you drink regularly, you risk health problems & addiction.
I for one, am not suggesting that alcohol should be banned (I'd like to see its sale more tightly controlled but not banned) but while drugs that do not pose a risk to health are banned, I am suggesting that the law is an ass.
Psychedelics drugs appear much more likely to lift depression & anxiety for me.
I've had some major anxiety & depression problems associated with alcohol use, in the days & weeks following it's use & my phyisical health suffered when I was drinking regularly. The harms associated with alcohol are vastly, vastly under-reported in our society while the panic over RC's grows daiily. I fail to see why the two problems are not more closely related by the media, if we do indeed have a free media. Which we don't.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Not to contest your point for the sake of it, Si (although feel free to accuse me of such - tradition is tradition), but I really don't think that the potential dangers of alcohol are at all 'under-reported', nor does the media attempt to suppress any information about alcohol's potential harms.
Every time I have the misfortune of being forced to pick up the Metro, it seems there's a piece about the dangers of binge drinking. Alcohol price levies have been introduced, and the bottles carry both information on the number of 'units' and a reminder to drink responsibly. If that's not at least a cursory effort at pointing out the potential harms of alcohol, I don't know what is.
I agree that RCs cause quite the disproportionate panic, although many of them can genuinely cause real harm. I just don't agree that alcohol's ill-effects are quite as glossed over as you appear to believe. Do people ignore the information? Well, yes. That's their prerogative though, surely?
If anything, we're moving towards a puritanical society. Look at tobacco smoking, for instance. The same media you distrust were full of anti-smoking adverts a few years ago. Now you can't even see what fags are on the shelf at yer local Tesco. Think 25 was an example of 'tighter controls' on alcohol too.
Every time I have the misfortune of being forced to pick up the Metro, it seems there's a piece about the dangers of binge drinking. Alcohol price levies have been introduced, and the bottles carry both information on the number of 'units' and a reminder to drink responsibly. If that's not at least a cursory effort at pointing out the potential harms of alcohol, I don't know what is.
I agree that RCs cause quite the disproportionate panic, although many of them can genuinely cause real harm. I just don't agree that alcohol's ill-effects are quite as glossed over as you appear to believe. Do people ignore the information? Well, yes. That's their prerogative though, surely?
If anything, we're moving towards a puritanical society. Look at tobacco smoking, for instance. The same media you distrust were full of anti-smoking adverts a few years ago. Now you can't even see what fags are on the shelf at yer local Tesco. Think 25 was an example of 'tighter controls' on alcohol too.
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Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Sorry, but that's just as bad as raas, albeit from the other end of the spectrum.
LSD has done nothing. People who might have taken LSD have done something. Some people who took LSD did bad things. An awful lot of people who took LSD did nothing. A hell of a lot of people who never even heard of LSD did truly wonderful things.
ColtDan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 24,876
Okay maybe outright saying good isn't correct, but the potential shift/enlightenment/whatever to realising the one-ness and connectivity which can be achieved from LSD, or most psychedelics. I'd say thats generally 'good', even if nothing is actually done on it. I'd say LSD has inspired more good than bad, creativity, etc. or is that too much "hippy bullshit" lol
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Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Listen to late sixties psychedelic records. A good 99% of them are unlistenable shite. That's what LSD can do for creativity. :D
I appreciate what you're saying with regard to its potential for a positive change in outlook, and I do agree with that. I just think that most of what LSD can 'teach' you is ineffable, and therefore not much use when you're back down and negotiating the crooked highways of Malkuth.
Which isn't to say it's worthless; quite the opposite. It just won't ever pay your rent for you and keep you warm, unless perhaps you move into a fucking commune.
I appreciate what you're saying with regard to its potential for a positive change in outlook, and I do agree with that. I just think that most of what LSD can 'teach' you is ineffable, and therefore not much use when you're back down and negotiating the crooked highways of Malkuth.
Which isn't to say it's worthless; quite the opposite. It just won't ever pay your rent for you and keep you warm, unless perhaps you move into a fucking commune.
Vurtual
Bluelighter
No i'd agree with dan - many people were inspired to do/think interesting new creative things after taking psychedelics - more i'd suggest than people who had serious negative effects; without this input, many things would have happened differently in recent history. Increase in creativity is good for society whichever way you cut it. Even without tangible creativity increase, just the entertainment and life-enhancing/therapeutic effects add to the positive side (yes it's the people not the actual molecule, but lsd is the catalyst). Obvously difficult/impossible to measure an effect on anything as complex as 'society', but it's my intuition nonetheless.
(as context, many historians say coffee also had an impact on society when it was introduced)
EDIT - some of my favourite records are from that period
- the burst of albums between 65 and 70 were imo a whole see change in the complexity and variation in popular music (peppered with excesses obviously, but it's often those excesses that lay the ground for future innovations)
(as context, many historians say coffee also had an impact on society when it was introduced)
EDIT - some of my favourite records are from that period
- the burst of albums between 65 and 70 were imo a whole see change in the complexity and variation in popular music (peppered with excesses obviously, but it's often those excesses that lay the ground for future innovations)Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Dan's statement was 'LSD has done good things for society', which was blatantly hyperbolic.
You appear to have reached the same conclusion I did, but with a bit more emphasis on the (supposed) potential of LSD to increase creativity. Perhaps that's true, perhaps not. I really think you have to take into account the fact that LSD use peaked during a time when the public consciousness was shifting on a massive scale anyhow. Besides, wasn't cannabis far more widespread?
And when I talk about 'psychedelic' records, I refer to the hackneyed, contrived psychedelic ones. Obviously that period was a fantastic one for music, but most of the best music was not self-consciously 'psychedelic'. Imagine telling Lou Reed that his music was 'psychedelic'. He'd spit in your face. :D
Vurtual
Bluelighter
No i agreed with dan - i think it did good things for society (society being made up of many of those individuals who had a good time/got inspired). Difficult to unpick the influence of lsd from the general social change of the period obviously, but it was a catalyst and an accelerant to those changes imo. Most of the albums that i think were good in that period were by people who used lsd (and often stated clearly that it helped inspire them make the music) - and the people i know who were alive in that period agree that the lsd was a key part of the counter-culture/hippy scene: just this counter-cultural thinking and its later offshoots are a positive effect on society imo.
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Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Which means you agreed with me, but never mind.
One day you will read these posts in sequence. :D
Most of the albums that I think were good in that period were made by people who were taking any and every drug, in many cases because it was the done thing in the 'counterculture'. It was cool to say you were inspired by LSD, even if you'd never dropped it. Syd Barrett is said to have actually tripped just a handful of times when he was still in the Floyd. Downers were more his poison.
Their Satanic Majesties Request should stand as a warning to us all.
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Si Ingwe said:
That is also one of the main points to take away from that study into relative harms of drugs that was in the lancet, if alcohol is legal but the most harmful / damaging drug of the one they looked at, moreso than what the law would have you think are the most dangerous (heroin / crack / mdma) then clearly the law is nothing to do with harm and everything to do with politics.
headfuck123
Bluelighter
Its a highly personal thing this whole LSD improving society and culture. for me its about responsible personal growth and changing the negative thought processes which enslave us. Some claim they found enlightenment yet they can no longer readjust back into "normal" society and become hippy burn outs a lot of the time. Psychedelics MAY be physically safe in a lot of people however the mind is fragile and I have personally witnessed the horrors of someone losing touch with reality and becoming completely psychotic and delusional, becoming a danger to themselves and others. You have to find what works for you personally so its impossible to say how generally safe these chems are. That said Im sad about this ban but lets just say we got lucky while they were available!
Hunter S Thompson -
"That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary’s trip. He crashed around America selling consciousness expansion” without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously… All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create… a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody… or at least some force – is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.”
Hunter S Thompson -
"That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary’s trip. He crashed around America selling consciousness expansion” without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously… All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create… a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody… or at least some force – is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.”