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Is MDMA an SSRI?
- Thread starter Super Ted
- Start date
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
no an ssri is a "Selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors or serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitor. (SSRIs) are a class of compounds typically used as antidepressants in the treatment of depression, anxiety disorders, and some personality disorders."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor
MDMA is a serotonin releaser, and presumably its that rush of serotonin release that gets people high. The way the SSRI meds work dont get you high, they are just meant to gradually help stabilise and improve your mood by restoring levels of serotonin back to normal. Serotonin levels are beleived to be lower in patients suffering from depression compared to those that dont.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor
MDMA is a serotonin releaser, and presumably its that rush of serotonin release that gets people high. The way the SSRI meds work dont get you high, they are just meant to gradually help stabilise and improve your mood by restoring levels of serotonin back to normal. Serotonin levels are beleived to be lower in patients suffering from depression compared to those that dont.
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Ah, thanks. ... It was the Serotonin part that made me wonder if MDMA was in or linked to SSRI's.
Are there any SSRI's that are available either over the counter or via online channels?
mydrugbuddy
Bluelighter
not otc, but online channels yes. I wouldnt advise acquiring them that way, GPs dish them out like sweets anyway. If you believe that you are suffering from mild-severe depression id recommend booking an apointment, depending on how much of a shit the Dr gives, you may or may not get an indepth discussion, ive had one read out a 20 point questionnaire, and it was obvious what answers i had to give in order to obtain the ssri. I felt as if i needed one. I think more and more are using this 20 point scoring thing.
It is perhaps better to be completely honest though, even if that means you miss getting a sript because you scored 14/20 rather than 15, which would be a complete shitter to be so borderline, i think in the long run if you can do without a script and try alternatives like regular exercise which is meant to be just as effective as any anti depressant.
It is perhaps better to be completely honest though, even if that means you miss getting a sript because you scored 14/20 rather than 15, which would be a complete shitter to be so borderline, i think in the long run if you can do without a script and try alternatives like regular exercise which is meant to be just as effective as any anti depressant.
From memory, SSRIs generally do no better than placebo in trials. They also come with a shitload of side-effects for some, have truly horrendous w/d effects which can last months, and take at least a month to have any effect on depression if they ever do. Side-effects include loss of sex drive, depression, suicide and murder. They are in no way recreational. At all.
Personally, I prefer to do without SSRIs (or indeed SNRIs which are similar drugs also used for depression which affect noradrenaline levels as well as serotonin levels) as I find the zombification I get when on them is worse than the depression itself. Throw in w/d from hell (they last around 3 months for me
) and it's one of my "red lines" whenever I see a new doc: no SSRIs/SNRIs.
Other people do just dandy on 'em when prescribed but - as MDB says - do not try to go acquring them online cos you almost have to fight doctors off from prescribing them at the drop of a hat for just about anything they can think of it seems. Don't be fooled by the serotonin "connection" with MDMA cos it's a whole other thing they're doing and as far from recreational as it gets. Speak to your doc if you feel you may be depressed (they're also used for various other conditions - OCD springs to mind) and be prepared to wade through several different SSRI/SNRI scripts before (or indeed if) you find one that is effective for you with minimal undesirable side-effects.
Personally, I prefer to do without SSRIs (or indeed SNRIs which are similar drugs also used for depression which affect noradrenaline levels as well as serotonin levels) as I find the zombification I get when on them is worse than the depression itself. Throw in w/d from hell (they last around 3 months for me
) and it's one of my "red lines" whenever I see a new doc: no SSRIs/SNRIs.Other people do just dandy on 'em when prescribed but - as MDB says - do not try to go acquring them online cos you almost have to fight doctors off from prescribing them at the drop of a hat for just about anything they can think of it seems. Don't be fooled by the serotonin "connection" with MDMA cos it's a whole other thing they're doing and as far from recreational as it gets. Speak to your doc if you feel you may be depressed (they're also used for various other conditions - OCD springs to mind) and be prepared to wade through several different SSRI/SNRI scripts before (or indeed if) you find one that is effective for you with minimal undesirable side-effects.
rickolasnice
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
- Messages
- 6,807
SSRI's help thousands of people..
My girlfriend suffered from general anxiety disorder and panic attacks so bad she would black out from them..
The SSRI she's on, sertraline, has massively improved her anxiety and she never has panic attacks any more.. She decided to give them up a while back and her anxiety and panic attacks returned.. back on the sertraline and she's fine again..
If one doesn't work for you then tell your doctor and try another.. Most of the hatred around SSRI's come from people not bothering to do this very simple thing.
I've been on them twice before, high doses (citalopram) for several months with no ill effects.. and managed to stop cold turkey both times with zero withdrawals.
But it's true.. they're definitely not recreational and can ruin or dull recreational drugs.
My girlfriend suffered from general anxiety disorder and panic attacks so bad she would black out from them..
The SSRI she's on, sertraline, has massively improved her anxiety and she never has panic attacks any more.. She decided to give them up a while back and her anxiety and panic attacks returned.. back on the sertraline and she's fine again..
If one doesn't work for you then tell your doctor and try another.. Most of the hatred around SSRI's come from people not bothering to do this very simple thing.
I've been on them twice before, high doses (citalopram) for several months with no ill effects.. and managed to stop cold turkey both times with zero withdrawals.
But it's true.. they're definitely not recreational and can ruin or dull recreational drugs.
ScotchMist
Bluelight Crew
What you said there about Drs throwing SSRIs around like sweets definitely seemed to be what i found ime.
I wouldnt say im depressed, im at a very low point due to circumstance, one that i have a capability to change and I'm fairly sure my GP knows that to as he is well aware of my history and present drug use....
Granted i was all teary eyed as my woe is me tales as to why im sat in his surgery at that moment in time i was very upset so he could be mistaken for that being my usual mood, so out came the pad and a months script of Sertaline to see how i got on with them. I decided against them much to the annoyance of my family because "Dr knows best" and im certainly glad i didnt go down that path as it was unecessary, im my case of coarse.
For some im sure they work wonders but i do think they're to quick to dish out these meds.
I wouldnt say im depressed, im at a very low point due to circumstance, one that i have a capability to change and I'm fairly sure my GP knows that to as he is well aware of my history and present drug use....
Granted i was all teary eyed as my woe is me tales as to why im sat in his surgery at that moment in time i was very upset so he could be mistaken for that being my usual mood, so out came the pad and a months script of Sertaline to see how i got on with them. I decided against them much to the annoyance of my family because "Dr knows best" and im certainly glad i didnt go down that path as it was unecessary, im my case of coarse.
For some im sure they work wonders but i do think they're to quick to dish out these meds.
steewith2ees
Bluelight Crew
there is some relation between mdmas mechanism of action and ssri's - this is obvious from the cross tolerance that they share- i (and many others) that i know find it impossible to get a proper 'roll' from pills or md crystal when over afew days in to a course of fluoxetine or the like.
when i did my nurse training in the late 90's i remember being told that ees work as if one were to get the 'combined effect of 50 prozacs at once' (not for one second am i suggesting that one take that many antidepressants as a recreational substitute to E) - this was put more as an analogy - if these medicines SELECTIVELY inhibit the reuptake of seretonin at certain sites, then mdma works in a more spectacular and global fashion than this, kind of equating the actions of a toothpick to a sledgehammer and chisel. When i last took fluoxetine as prsecribed, i found that once they took full effect after 3 weeks or so, that their solution felt very artificial, the antideprssant effect stemmed from a permanent background chemical glow, kind of like a weak e!
this feeling could also come very pleasant and strong when i took 'plain' stimulants in this state - i remember having a couple of small crack pipes one afternoon giving me a powerful 'roll', quite similar to the effect of a good pill, just much shorter in duration.
ps... one other subjective similarity between the two is the occurrence of an old favourite 'brain zaps', something ive experienced after prolonged pill binges AND after finishing a course of SSRI's
when i did my nurse training in the late 90's i remember being told that ees work as if one were to get the 'combined effect of 50 prozacs at once' (not for one second am i suggesting that one take that many antidepressants as a recreational substitute to E) - this was put more as an analogy - if these medicines SELECTIVELY inhibit the reuptake of seretonin at certain sites, then mdma works in a more spectacular and global fashion than this, kind of equating the actions of a toothpick to a sledgehammer and chisel. When i last took fluoxetine as prsecribed, i found that once they took full effect after 3 weeks or so, that their solution felt very artificial, the antideprssant effect stemmed from a permanent background chemical glow, kind of like a weak e!
this feeling could also come very pleasant and strong when i took 'plain' stimulants in this state - i remember having a couple of small crack pipes one afternoon giving me a powerful 'roll', quite similar to the effect of a good pill, just much shorter in duration.
ps... one other subjective similarity between the two is the occurrence of an old favourite 'brain zaps', something ive experienced after prolonged pill binges AND after finishing a course of SSRI's
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The particular SSRI I was interested in is one called Priligy (Dapoxetine) ... This is not for depression, anxiety or any of the other common reasons why someone would take an SSRI but, er, for something else...
I just wondered if MDMA would have the same effect without having to have a rather embarrassing trip to the Doctor.
I just wondered if MDMA would have the same effect without having to have a rather embarrassing trip to the Doctor.
Yes, MDMA (and more or less all stims (and opiates/opioids for that matter)) all have that particularl effect in common too. Problem with MDMA/stims is that it often tends to also result in acornism (nothing is gonna get out cos nothing is gonna get up, as it were). This is not universal but is very common. To be honest, I wouldn't think a chemical solution would be the best whatever the chemical is - such things are often psychological in nature at heart (anxiety being a prime cause of that and related issues) and - at the risk of going all SLR on you - talking through with partner would perhaps go a long way.
Alternatively, I've gone to my doc for a Viagra script back when they were still on private scripts only from the NHS (not the OTC ones you can get now (I think)) and heavily controlled. Oddly enough to counteract the effects of MDMA and stims (but mostly MDMA) as it happens. Docs are used to dealing with these kinda things and know it's an awkward area to discuss so don't make a fuss. Perhaps make an appointment with a doctor you don't normally see if you want to discuss chemical options if talking to your regular doc would be too much.
Alternatively, I've gone to my doc for a Viagra script back when they were still on private scripts only from the NHS (not the OTC ones you can get now (I think)) and heavily controlled. Oddly enough to counteract the effects of MDMA and stims (but mostly MDMA) as it happens. Docs are used to dealing with these kinda things and know it's an awkward area to discuss so don't make a fuss. Perhaps make an appointment with a doctor you don't normally see if you want to discuss chemical options if talking to your regular doc would be too much.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
If we're talking NHS, what alternative do they really have? Tell you to pull your socks up, put your chin up and 'get some fresh air and exercise'? Imagine the uproar if that resulted in even one instance of suicide - as it inevitably would.
In many cases the SSRI (or TCA, or whatever) may not be totally necessary, but if a course of such medication appears to result in a positive outcome (as it does in lots of cases) then where's the problem?
Granted, these medicines don't work for some people (myself included), but what's the realistic alternative, given that even people with severe mental health conditions are finding their services vastly reduced and underfunded?
The alternative would be to stop massively overprescribing longterm repeat scripts for expensive and unsuitable drugs of dependency and then spend the savings on other areas that can deal with situations more effectively. I'm not anti-SSRI - cos they do work for some people - but I am anti ridiculous overprescribing of SSRIs cos the manufacturers spend a fortune on sweetening the deal for docs if they do. It's a racket. And SSRIs have caused (or are strongly enough suspected of causing they mention it as a recognised side-effect) plenty of suicides. Is that really any better than prescribing fresh air and exercise? Docs actually can and do prescribe exercise and in some instances that probably is gonna be more beneficial than an SSRI script.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Hold yer horses.
The patient has the right to decide whether they continue to take the drugs, so anybody with an unwanted long-term repeat script should talk to their doctor about alternatives, or go and see another one.
I'm not advocating the long-term use of SSRIs for people who clearly don't respond to them, am I? I'm simply pointing out that in many cases it's unfortunately the best, most ethical thing a GP can do as a first-line treatment.
Yes, SSRIs have been linked to suicides, mania, psychotic breaks, etc. So has untreated depression, unsurprisingly.
See what position the doctors are in?
SSRI's are a first line treatmeant mostly because it is hard to overdose and die on them, unlike TCA's. and also because of the way drug companies work in pushing their products. SSRI's never helped me but they do help some people. Imipramine didn't do a great deal for me either. Sideffects of all these drugs are not pleasant.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Speaking of side effects, SSRIs are generally found to be the best-tolerated of all the options too, which is an important factor in them being the favoured route.
It can be hard to separate personal - and (to an extent) vicarious - experience from other factors, but I am aware and do agree SSRIs have a place. I do think they are ridiculously overprescribed as a first option - and often for what would appear to be unuitable cases (relatively minor anxieties and social phobias in particular). But even leaving aside the undesirable effects which obviously vary from person to person, it's the supposedly desirable effects that I had most problem with. I just don't see how it's at all obvious that the first choice should be meds whose intended effect is to knock the roughest edges off depression for the cost of losing the ability to enjoy and appreciate the enjoyable and appreciable aspects of life. I tend to think of it as being somewhat of a methadone for the masses. Yes the worst symptoms go away but so does all the good stuff and the underlying issue remains unsolved.
Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Surely major depression is far more capable of ruining (or even entirely preventing) the appreciation of previously-enjoyable aspects of life? Isn't that its very nature?
Most medications are a trade-off. Hopefully this won't always be the case, but if SSRIs are preventing anybody enjoying their life, then they should seek other avenues - though always under the supervision of their GP / mental health professional.
Again, in cases like these, the patient has to be (excuse the word) pro-active and communicate with their doctor.
SSRIs are neither a life-sentence nor the only option.
I don't know about you but trying to find any alternative options for depression from a doc is nigh-on impossible in my experience. No funding for anything.
(cos it all goes on bloody ssris
)
(cos it all goes on bloody ssris
)Sammy G
Ex-Bluelighter
Unbelievably, I've never been prescribed an SSRI, even during the post-Prozac craze years. I was prescribed TCAs for depression. Not that they would've solved my problem, but that's a different story. I know other people who've quit easily switched from SSRI / SNRIs to TCAs though.
Re: funding - unfortunately it's not even that much better for those with what may be regarded as 'more serious' mental illnesses. Especially if they display a certain level of 'functioning'. It sucks, and my psychiatrist apologises for it on a regular basis, but that's the NHS for you.
(cos it all goes on bloody ssris
Nice!
All on IVF and breast implants, you mean? :D