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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The Cost of Immigration

LosBlancos said:
I think he is scared of losing power and wants to usher in 5 million new citizens who will likely vote Democrat their whole lives.
Click to expand...

I've thought about it for a few days and I think you're right. It's pretty sad when the president doesn't even have any regard for the country's own law. I've said before America pretty much acts as the world's police and EMT. Now I guess we can add homeless shelter and soup kitchen as well at the cost of the country's legal citizens.

Dissatisfied with your own country? Come to America, we'll foot the bill while we can't even take care of our own citizens. That makes total sense.
 
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It's not like America is a wealthy nation or anything.
You guys put way too much energy into your hand-wringing about this sort of stuff. I sincerely doubt any of this affects you negatively in any way - you're just too heartless and bigoted to empathise with anyone outside of your Fox News soaked echo chamber of manufactured discontent.
 
LosBlancos said:
Most of whom aren't "cream of the crop" unless you consider not speaking the native toungue, not having graduated high school, and having several children as a young adult "cream of the crop".
Click to expand...

You just described more than a few of my immigrant ancestors.

Since they came over between one hundred and four hundred years ago, and yet America is still a pretty spiffy place to live, I think it's safe to assume that this time won't be different.
 
LosBlancos said:
Well he's gone and done it.

Barak "Hussein" Obama has undermined the law of the land and will let scores of illegal aliens remain in the country. I thought there was separations of powers and checks and balances, but apparently the President has taken the law into his own hands.
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executive orders are perfectly legal so suggesting that he's undermined the law is absurd. but then you already know that.

list of presidents by number of executive orders signed: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

itt: flap over total non-issue

alasdair
 
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LosBlancos said:
Just a small executive order completely undermining the law of our land, our established immigration process, our border.
Click to expand...

Please provide a link.

Which immigrants have been granted amnesty? Every person caught crossing the border, or the war refugees he's been vowing to protect?

LosBlancos said:
He delayed this issue until after the recent midterm elections, and he still saw the choice of the American people towards Conservative values.
Click to expand...

How often do minority parties NOT win midterm elections? Remember 2010? The whole Republican Shellacking thing? Two years later Republicans were declared "dead on arrival". Here we are once more.
 
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IIRC, until around the Depression Era, Hispanics could freely go and work and live in the US. It has been a long tradition for millions of migrant workers, but the restrictions are new. I have never seen any convincing data that shows that they are actually harming the country by being there.

There are obviously some wrong ways to bring people into the country -- but I don't think this is going to be harmful overall. Conversely, in the name of fairness I think the source countries should be welcoming to Americans who want to live and work abroad.
 
Bardeaux said:
Please provide a link.

Which immigrants have been granted amnesty? Every person caught crossing the border, or the war refugees he's been vowing to protect?
Click to expand...

Did you watch his speech? I've heard figures of 5 million potentially being given citizenship.

I pray no members of ISIS are given admittance to our beautiful nation under the guise of being a refugee.
 
alasdairm said:
executive orders are perfectly legal so suggesting that he's undermined the law is absurd. but then you already know that.

list of presidents by number of executive orders signed: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

itt: flap over total non-issue

alasdair
Click to expand...

That's misleading since you can't see what the executive orders are. Sure Bush had alot of them but they were for the most part fairly menial things I'll give you a few:

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TD]13453[/TD]
[TD]Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Monday, December 24, 2007[/TD]
[TD]2007-12-06[/TD]
[TD]72 FR 70477[/TD]
[TD]2007-12-11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13454[/TD]
[TD]Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-04[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 1481[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13455[/TD]
[TD]Establishing the President’s Advisory Council on Financial Literacy[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-23[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 4445[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13456[/TD]
[TD]Further Amendment of Executive Order 11858 Concerning Foreign Investment in the United States[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-23[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 4677[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13457[/TD]
[TD]Protecting American Taxpayers From Government Spending on Wasteful Earmarks[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-29[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 6417[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13458[/TD]
[TD]Implementation of the Protocol Additional to the Agreement Between the United States and the International Atomic Energy Agency for the Application of Safeguards in the United States of America[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-04[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 7181[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-06[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13459[/TD]
[TD]Improving the Coordination and Effectiveness of Youth Programs[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-07[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 8003[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13460[/TD]
[TD]Blocking Property of Additional Persons in Connection With the National Emergency With Respect to Syria[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-13[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 8991[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13461[/TD]
[TD]Providing an Order of Succession Within the Department of Health and Human Services[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-15[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 9437[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13462[/TD]
[TD]President’s Intelligence Advisory Board and Intelligence Oversight Board[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-29[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 11805[/TD]
[TD]2008-03-04[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13463[/TD]
[TD]Amending Executive Orders 13389 and 13390
[/TD]
[TD]2008-04-18[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 22047[/TD]
[TD]2008-04-23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13464[/TD]
[TD]Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Burma
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hardly anything as radical as completely undermining our nation's laws and saying that previous laws are null and void if you happened to sneak over here you're now a citizen. 5 million now granted amnesty, should we sign them up for welfare and food stamps at the same time we give them citizenship just to eliminate some paperwork?
 
"completely undermining our nation's laws" keeping saying it won't make it true.

"if you happened to sneak over here you're now a citizen" when you have to lie like this, it says everything about your participation here. these people are not being granted u.s. citizenship.

go troll somewhere else, dude.

alasdair
 
I like Mexicans. I've worked with them. I've had jobs where they were regular patrons. I've frequented establishments where they were employed. They are wonderful folks. Some of the nicest people I've ever met.
Do I think it is a good idea to have several million of unskilled Mexican peasants who illegally crossed our borders become legal citizens? Erm, no. Some simple number crunching will disabuse anyone of that.
I do not blame for a second anyone trying to come to this country. If I were born in Mexico, I would try to immigrate here too. But I was born American. I think our immigration policy should be designed to benefit Americans who are already here or were born here. I grew up in the 80's when it seemed like American wealth was infinite. But now, it is becoming very clear that our wealth is quite finite. We can't afford all these people.
 
EA-1475 said:
I like Mexicans. I've worked with them. I've had jobs where they were regular patrons. I've frequented establishments where they were employed. They are wonderful folks. Some of the nicest people I've ever met.
Do I think it is a good idea to have several million of unskilled Mexican peasants who illegally crossed our borders become legal citizens? Erm, no. Some simple number crunching will disabuse anyone of that.
I do not blame for a second anyone trying to come to this country. If I were born in Mexico, I would try to immigrate here too. But I was born American. I think our immigration policy should be designed to benefit Americans who are already here or were born here. I grew up in the 80's when it seemed like American wealth was infinite. But now, it is becoming very clear that our wealth is quite finite. We can't afford all these people.
Click to expand...

It's not about Mexicans. It's about anyone that is here illegally, doesn't matter if they are British, Australian, French, African, Asian, Mexican. If you don't abide by our laws they need to be enforced.
 
nuttynutskin said:
So you have no problem with them taking our jobs? Really?
Click to expand...

If we actually invested in our citizens education, we wouldn't need to worry about unskilled labor taking their jobs.

Partially the result of our shit education system that doesn't prepare them for life beyond being a teenager. Then, if they are lucky enough to go to college, they are stuck with debt for the rest of their life.
 
LosBlancos said:
That's misleading since you can't see what the executive orders are. Sure Bush had alot of them but they were for the most part fairly menial things I'll give you a few:

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TD]13453[/TD]
[TD]Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Monday, December 24, 2007[/TD]
[TD]2007-12-06[/TD]
[TD]72 FR 70477[/TD]
[TD]2007-12-11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13454[/TD]
[TD]Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-04[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 1481[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13455[/TD]
[TD]Establishing the President’s Advisory Council on Financial Literacy[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-23[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 4445[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13456[/TD]
[TD]Further Amendment of Executive Order 11858 Concerning Foreign Investment in the United States[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-23[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 4677[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13457[/TD]
[TD]Protecting American Taxpayers From Government Spending on Wasteful Earmarks[/TD]
[TD]2008-01-29[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 6417[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13458[/TD]
[TD]Implementation of the Protocol Additional to the Agreement Between the United States and the International Atomic Energy Agency for the Application of Safeguards in the United States of America[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-04[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 7181[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-06[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13459[/TD]
[TD]Improving the Coordination and Effectiveness of Youth Programs[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-07[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 8003[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13460[/TD]
[TD]Blocking Property of Additional Persons in Connection With the National Emergency With Respect to Syria[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-13[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 8991[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13461[/TD]
[TD]Providing an Order of Succession Within the Department of Health and Human Services[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-15[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 9437[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13462[/TD]
[TD]President’s Intelligence Advisory Board and Intelligence Oversight Board[/TD]
[TD]2008-02-29[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 11805[/TD]
[TD]2008-03-04[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13463[/TD]
[TD]Amending Executive Orders 13389 and 13390
[/TD]
[TD]2008-04-18[/TD]
[TD]73 FR 22047[/TD]
[TD]2008-04-23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13464[/TD]
[TD]Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Burma
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hardly anything as radical as completely undermining our nation's laws and saying that previous laws are null and void if you happened to sneak over here you're now a citizen. 5 million now granted amnesty, should we sign them up for welfare and food stamps at the same time we give them citizenship just to eliminate some paperwork?
Click to expand...

Ahh, so you admit the executive order itself isn't the problem. It's just that you don't like the contents of the executive order.

Case closed.
 
It's not about Mexicans. It's about anyone that is here illegally, doesn't matter if they are British, Australian, French, African, Asian, Mexican. If you don't abide by our laws they need to be enforced.
Click to expand...

Do you use any illegal drugs? If yes, Why aren't you turning yourself in? You seem to feel so strongly that the law is the law no matter what. Or is that you like to selectively follow the laws you feel should and shouldn't apply? You know, you really can't get mad at people for the doing the same thing you do.
 
LosBlancos said:
It's not about Mexicans. It's about anyone that is here illegally, doesn't matter if they are British, Australian, French, African, Asian, Mexican. If you don't abide by our laws they need to be enforced.
Click to expand...

I guess you don't smoke Cannabis, do any other drugs, smoke untaxed cigarettes, drink untaxed booze, speed when your driving or any other illegal stuff then? If you do those laws need to be enforced so get the fuck out of your country if you don't like em :p
 
paranoid android said:
I guess you don't smoke Cannabis, do any other drugs, smoke untaxed cigarettes, drink untaxed booze, speed when your driving or any other illegal stuff then? If you do those laws need to be enforced so get the fuck out of your country if you don't like em :p
Click to expand...

I have smoked Cannabis and been wrote a ticket for possession of it, unfair that illegal citizens don't have the law enforced against them while the rest of us do.
 
alasdairm said:
executive orders are perfectly legal so suggesting that he's undermined the law is absurd. but then you already know that.

list of presidents by number of executive orders signed: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

itt: flap over total non-issue

alasdair
Click to expand...

So cause he has done it the least or held out the longest gives more relevance to whatever order he puts down. Right....
 
legalizeall said:
So cause he has done it the least or held out the longest gives more relevance to whatever order he puts down. Right....
Click to expand...

They're just delusional. If you look over previous executive orders they're usually pretty innucous not something like letting 5 million illegal aliens stay in the country overriding all other laws.

It's like saying this person has a longer criminal record when his offenses are petty burglary, marijuana possession, jaywalking and criminal mischief when the other guy has 1 count of murder. Does it matter who has the most executive orders? Not really. What matters is the content of them! The whole executive order combined with the fact he put it in place after midterm elections thinking his position on it would hurt Democratic candidates yet they still lost both houses of Congress horribly is just laughable. If you think American people would react that badly to legislation don't pass it in the first place, he's supposed to be acting in our interests not the interests people who've been hiding in our country for many years or bypassed our border security.
 
alasdairm said:
"completely undermining our nation's laws" keeping saying it won't make it true.

"if you happened to sneak over here you're now a citizen" when you have to lie like this, it says everything about your participation here. these people are not being granted u.s. citizenship.

go troll somewhere else, dude.

alasdair
Click to expand...

Actually, dude, Obama just granted lawful status to people that are declared unlawful by the laws of the United States. Ya i would say thats undermining.
 
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