Heroin Need a little advice

[Opiates<3]

Hello guys,
I have been doing heroin recreationally for around a year now. I only snort it (I know everyone says this but i will never touch a needle i have a very big phobia to needles(I used to pass out when doctors used to give me shots)

Part 1:
Anyways the first 6months(we will call this part one) or so i wasnt using very heavy at all. I had a guy that sold 10 packs in lotto tickets, i went to him about 2 times a month and would just buy 2 packs and it would last me the weekend. This went on for about 6 months. I would take a couple oxys here and there, some vikes, whatever. I really started to get back into opiates again(I had taken a break for quite some time)

Part 2:
But as i kept doing all these opiates my tolerance obviously went up. After the first 6 months i would go down to the city (I live in michigan about 20 minute from detroit.) and start picking up 4 or 5 $XXX packs from this guy. It made more sense to me to buy smack instead of pills. (It would take atleast 100mg of hydro to get me high now)

Part 3:
So its another weekend about 3 months down the road and im waiting for my guy to come to the normal spot when this suv approaches me ask me if i was waiting on some boy. I told him yeah and he gave me a 20$ tester and said to stop fucking with my other guy and fuck with him. This dope was like nothing ive ever seen, the shit i got before was a medium tan color powder. This shit was in rock form and was almost pure white looking. I did the pack and it blew me away i was never that high off any opiates ever.

Part 4:
So for the past 2 months ive been going to this guy and getting his 20 packs. (Ive never tried to weigh em bc i dont have a milligram scale, but they look fat)
ive been going down to see him alot lately (word got around uptown that i have this guys number so i basically take people down there and middle man em and get myself a pack or whatever whenever thats possible)

Part 5:
So the past 3 weeks ive had alot of money to spend so ive been going down every couple days and grabbing a couple packs for myself. ill grab like 2-3-4 20's or so and try and make em last as long as i could. Until one day i found 60$ in one of my old coats and went and got 3 packs. I was so excited i blew a full pack right when i got it, another when i got home. I was so high when i got home i just nodded myself into a full sleep. Woke up and did the 3rd. This is what fucked me. That happened about a week ago and ive been going strong since.

Part 6:
Yesterday i went down and grabbed 3 20 packs. i did 2 last night and said fuck this shit im done, these are my last packs. I woke up did the last one and now im gonna try and be done for as long as i can. I assume im going to withdrawal because of my little binge ive had this week.

So now that you know alot of background information here are my questions for quitting (Not for good i just want my tolerance to go down so i can get high off pills once again and not have to touch this heroin anymore.)

1.) I have the option to get suboxone, which i think im gonna get to make the withdrawls less....(Or should i go cold turkey)
2.) I have the option to get benzos, i could get valium or xanax.
3.) I have some very good medicinal weed that i could always use to lift my spirits.
4.) How bad should i expect my withdrawal syptoms to be? How long would they last?
5.) Does it seem like i should quit opiates all together? I feel like i have things under control and noticed that things were getting out of hand and am doing something to stop it.
6.) What is your general opinion about my situation?

***FOR ANYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO READ THIS AND RESPOND, THANK YOU SO MUCH I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!!!!***

 

[Opiates<3]

I also have another question if i do get the suboxone what would be an appropriate dosage according to my tolerance?

 

[furryfreek]

Well, I'm not exactly experienced in these matters (The most I've gotten into opiates/opioids is my recently acquired kratom habit) but I think if you want to get your tolerance down and stay down for a decent amount of time, you would have to take a complete break from opiates for a fair while (a month or so I guess). I certainly wouldn't want to go full on cold turkey immediately, though. I think if I were in your boat I'd first reduce my usage to the point where its purely maintenance (i.e. only just keeping yourself from withdrawal and not getting high) and then taper down from there as fast as possible (a couple or three weeks). Just the tapering alone would reduce tolerance, but I doubt it would last any time at all (that is certainly the case with me and kratom).

With your tolerance, I don't think kratom would be potent enough for the sake of tapering but it could help take the edge off of withdrawal. What ever you do, though, don't buy it from a headshop! - order it online, it's far cheaper and usually better quality. Another option is poppy pod tea (PPT), made from poppy pods which can be bought legally for the purpose of flower arrangement, though I wouldn't recommend it for the sake of tapering either unless there's nothing better available. The problem with PPT is that potency varies greatly pod to pod and crop to crop which is obviously unsuitable if you're trying to accurately control your dose and taper down, though if you get a decent amount of pods you can crush them all up and mix them together to make it relatively consistent in potency.

 

[Opiates<3]

Well, I'm not exactly experienced in these matters (The most I've gotten into opiates/opioids is my recently acquired kratom habit) but I think if you want to get your tolerance down and stay down for a decent amount of time, you would have to take a complete break from opiates for a fair while (a month or so I guess). I certainly wouldn't want to go full on cold turkey immediately, though. I think if I were in your boat I'd first reduce my usage to the point where its purely maintenance (i.e. only just keeping yourself from withdrawal and not getting high) and then taper down from there as fast as possible (a couple or three weeks). Just the tapering alone would reduce tolerance, but I doubt it would last any time at all (that is certainly the case with me and kratom).

With your tolerance, I don't think kratom would be potent enough for the sake of tapering but it could help take the edge off of withdrawal. What ever you do, though, don't buy it from a headshop! - order it online, it's far cheaper and usually better quality. Another option is poppy pod tea (PPT), made from poppy pods which can be bought legally for the purpose of flower arrangement, though I wouldn't recommend it for the sake of tapering either unless there's nothing better available. The problem with PPT is that potency varies greatly pod to pod and crop to crop which is obviously unsuitable if you're trying to accurately control your dose and taper down, though if you get a decent amount of pods you can crush them all up and mix them together to make it relatively consistent in potency.

Thanks for the post it was very informative with the kratom as im not sure about it. From my headshop my guy said it was bali something strain... But yeah there seems to be a chance of me geetting suboxone now, so that is looking better. im not sure the dosage i should take of that either hahaah ahhh i feel like a mess right now

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

my advice to you would be to suck it up and quit cold turkey, you will feel 100% after a week or so maybe actually less for you. since you only snort it the worst part of w/d for u will be the RLS. now understand that cold turkey means no weed, no benzos, nothing like that. fuck that shit. if u wana quit, cold turkey is the way to do it, you must pay the debt you owe to heroin theres no way around it. best of luck

 

[mabzie55]

Lol sounds familiar, same city and all.

"Yo I'm your t$ now, you buy from me... BTW my shit costs mo" yeah fuck off.

Anyway, I'd say suboxone is your best option. Weed doesn't help as much as you think it would. I found that benzos don't help much either unless you black out. But even then you'll end up addicted to that more than likely.

Just stick with the sub, there are plenty of sub doctors in our area.

Anyway if you don't get sub your hell withdrawal will last anywhere from a 10 to 35 days, with post acute withdrawal for the next 6 months - a few years depending on how addicted you are.

But yeah, of all the options sub is by far the best choice.

If you can go cold turkey great, most of us will literally die before we can successfully go cold turkey.

How addicted would you say you are from 1 - 10?

As far as suboxone dosage, how much dope did you do in an average day/week?
But without knowing that answer prob 3-8mg/day.

 

[rhun]

Please do not mention prices as it's not allowed and be careful with locations.
Sober Living is a great forum to post in for recovery support, I would definitely make a thread there.
I would move this one there, but there's too much triggering content.

Should you quit? You're the only one that can answer that question. But I can tell you from personal experience, it only gets worse (and harder to quit) from here. You can make the decision to improve your life starting today and save yourself from a lot of fucked up shit. Or you can keep using, and risk the consequences of addiction: jails, institutions, and death. You never know if you'll even get the opportunity to get clean, you could never get out. But I will also say that if you're not 100% ready to quit now it's unlikely you'll stay clean.

If you decide to detox, I would start off with the Thomas Recipe. It should come up on Google. Basically it's a home detox that minimizes discomfort and you already have the main ingredient, which is a benzodiazepine. I always advise people to try and get off without buprenorphine (brand names subutex, suboxone) or methadone first because it's easy to get stuck on maintenance and for someone who hasn't been using long, it just drags out the process.

Your use has been short enough where cold turkey detox with benzos is completely doable. And by doing the Thomas Recipe, you're not removing buprenorphine as an option. Due to PWD, you would need to wait approx 24 hours to dose the bupe anyway. So if you get 1-2 days into the detox and it's just unbearable, you can dose the bupe. But I would do your absolute best to hang in there and get through it without bupe... remember, the worst of it it is over in 3 days with heroin.

Now, IF you attempt the Thomas Recipe and end up needing buprenorphine you have 2 options on how you can take it. You can either take a small amount (less than 1mg) when you're at the worst point of withdrawal then dose less than .5mg once or twice more when it's really bad. Basically, you're just taking small amounts to get through the worst of it. In this scenario, you need to be dosing the bupe very sparingly. Very small amounts very infrequently. Once a day or less and after that first 1mg it needs to be half that or less.

OR, you can do a 5-10 day bupe taper. This should be Plan C, if the above does not work. The first day, you start at 2mg when you're in full withdrawal. See if that holds you, if it doesn't you can dose another 2mg after 1 hour. You can keep repeating this as needed, but with your habit you should be able to stay at 2-4mg and have almost all withdrawal removed. Just be patient, it takes time to work and you're not going to get high or feel 100%. Then taper from starting dose to 0 over 5 days (10 if you take more than 6mg first day).

Now, once you get through the physical detox you need to decide on a recovery plan. That is what is going to keep you clean in the long run. What that looks like is up to you, though I highly advise doing something daily for your recovery. Try out multiple things... 12 step meetings, group and/or individual therapy, outpatient treatment, sober living houses, LifeRing, SMART Recovery, medication, herbal remedies, etc etc etc... post in Sober Living for more ideas.

Best of luck

 

[rhun]

Lol sounds familiar, same city and all.

"Yo I'm your t$ now, you buy from me... BTW my shit costs mo" yeah fuck off.

Anyway, I'd say suboxone is your best option. Weed doesn't help as much as you think it would. I found that benzos don't help much either unless you black out. But even then you'll end up addicted to that more than likely.

Just stick with the sub, there are plenty of sub doctors in our area.

Anyway if you don't get sub your hell withdrawal will last anywhere from a 10 to 35 days, with post acute withdrawal for the next 6 months - a few years depending on how addicted you are.

But yeah, of all the options sub is by far the best choice.

If you can go cold turkey great, most of us will literally die before we can successfully go cold turkey.

How addicted would you say you are from 1 - 10?

As far as suboxone dosage, how much dope did you do in an average day/week?
But without knowing that answer prob 3-8mg/day.

This is incorrect. Acute withdrawal from heroin is over very quickly, the worst of it is over in 3 days and the average person starts to feel better after a week. As for PAWS, it's highly dependent on the duration and amount used of the person in question. But even with a big habit, you're looking at a year max. The OP though should bounce back much quicker.

Cold turkey detox is absolutely appropriate for cases like that of the OP, where they've been using a year but have only been physically dependent for 6 months. A correct detox using a benzo and other detox medication can ease almost all withdrawal symptoms. If the OP has used larger amounts and is still uncomfortable, then a rapid buprenorphine taper could be used (10 days max).

But suggesting buprenorphine maintenance or being on it any longer than 10 days is ridiculous. You'd just be taking the problem and making it 2x worse. Bupe is a potent, long lasting opioid that can be difficult to come off of. Maintenance should only be considered when other treatment has failed and the addict in question has been using a long time and/or in large amounts.

How can you rate addiction? A number cannot begin to describe what someone is going through. I'm not trying to single you out, I'm just concerned because it seems like you're throwing out some info that may not be factual and it's important to be well researched when you're advising someone on something so serious and with consequences that could be life threatening. Addiction is life or death.

 

[mabzie55]

Yeah benzos always got rid of my opiate withdrawal... Because they would lower my willpower even more and I'd go score dome dope.

Honestly I don't think benzos are helpful for a serious mentally and physically addicted opiate user.
Maybe if you are purely physically addicted, but idk how many of those are out there.

I've tried everything imaginable, bupe was the only thing that successfully got me off dope.
I would most likely be dead right now if I didn't get on sub.

 

[mabzie55]

This is incorrect. Acute withdrawal from heroin is over very quickly, the worst of it is over in 3 days and the average person starts to feel better after a week. As for PAWS, it's highly dependent on the duration and amount used of the person in question. But even with a big habit, you're looking at a year max. The OP though should bounce back much quicker.

Cold turkey detox is absolutely appropriate for cases like that of the OP, where they've been using a year but have only been physically dependent for 6 months. A correct detox using a benzo and other detox medication can ease almost all withdrawal symptoms. If the OP has used larger amounts and is still uncomfortable, then a rapid buprenorphine taper could be used (10 days max).

But suggesting buprenorphine maintenance or being on it any longer than 10 days is ridiculous. You'd just be taking the problem and making it 2x worse. Bupe is a potent, long lasting opioid that can be difficult to come off of. Maintenance should only be considered when other treatment has failed and the addict in question has been using a long time and/or in large amounts.

How can you rate addiction? A number cannot begin to describe what someone is going through. I'm not trying to single you out, I'm just concerned because it seems like you're throwing out some info that may not be factual and it's important to be well researched when you're advising someone on something so serious and with consequences that could be life threatening. Addiction is life or death.

Everything I said was based on my experience with heroin withdrawal.
So it's 100% not incorrect-- it is a fact, something that happened in real life to me.
And wow, if the average person's withdrawal is over in three days then they are lucky as fuck.

I was pooping my pants and all the rest well past 30 days.

And have you had withdrawal from dope and bupe?
It doesn't even come close.
Bupe withdrawal is like a pissed off kitten.
Dope withdrawal is like a puma that hasn't eaten in 2 weeks.

Have you actually experienced these things or are you just going off something you've read?

Also I definitely didn't specify any amount of time to be on sub so idk where you're getting this "more than 10 days" thing.

And I'm pretty sure a person can rate how addicted they feel they are... No a number won't tell you what they're going through but it will give you an idea how how dependent they feel they are.

Suggesting that after 3-10 days you'll feel all better is what is absolutely absurd.

Addiction is definitely not all physical, and when the worst of the physical symptoms subside that is when the mental torture begins.
The boredom, cravings, etc.
You can't just taper in 10 days and pop a few benzos and be good if you are legitimately addicted

 

[Bliss26]

OP has only had a daily habit for 3 weeks. NO WAY should he go on suboxone. He's not going to have comparable WDs to someone who's been going hard for years.
OP: don't let the horror stories scare you. It won't be that bad, and PAWS is unlikely considering the small window of hard use.
However after access to good cheap dope you're probably not going to be able to go back to pills, from a source or financial standpoint. Yeah once you quit your tolerance goes down but only temporarily like someone says. It has a tendency to ramp back up real fast.
Prep for your WD by getting some benzos and maybe kratom. Kratom doesn't do much but it does help with physical symptoms like watery eyes , yawning etc. You may also want to get some Imodium for the D.

 

[black kat]

I think the first thing you gotta do is ask yourself if heroin is still a recreational drug for you.If you can still get by doing other drugs or no drugs at all then id suggest take some benzos for sleep and focus on keeping yourself busy doing fun staff-drinking with your mates ,your gf etc..Seriously,taking Subs at this early stage will only keep your mind around drugs as the withdrawals of a 2 month habbit are easy to manage,especially compared to what the future holds for you if you keep walking this path.

Sometimes people experiment w different drugs until they find heroin,then usually the experimenting is over as heroin requires a full on love affair.Recreational use already became 7 years for me so think realistically about the depth of the problem,it might still be early to avoid the inevitable.

 

[rhun]

Everything I said was based on my experience with heroin withdrawal.
So it's 100% not incorrect-- it is a fact, something that happened in real life to me.
And wow, if the average person's withdrawal is over in three days then they are lucky as fuck.

I was pooping my pants and all the rest well past 30 days.

And have you had withdrawal from dope and bupe?
It doesn't even come close.
Bupe withdrawal is like a pissed off kitten.
Dope withdrawal is like a puma that hasn't eaten in 2 weeks.

Have you actually experienced these things or are you just going off something you've read?

Also I definitely didn't specify any amount of time to be on sub so idk where you're getting this "more than 10 days" thing.

And I'm pretty sure a person can rate how addicted they feel they are... No a number won't tell you what they're going through but it will give you an idea how how dependent they feel they are.

Suggesting that after 3-10 days you'll feel all better is what is absolutely absurd.

Addiction is definitely not all physical, and when the worst of the physical symptoms subside that is when the mental torture begins.
The boredom, cravings, etc.
You can't just taper in 10 days and pop a few benzos and be good if you are legitimately addicted

Yep, I've withdrawn from oxycodone, heroin, methadone, and buprenorphine. My DOC is heroin though, I used IV for 5 years along with cocaine and benzos. What I said was the worst of the acute withdrawal ends after day 3, at which point it usually gets better. PAWS is a bitch and can generally last for up to a year, longer for MMT patients and career addicts.

My point is that we need to look at the OP's situation, not just what worked for us. It's important not to just suggest something because it worked for you, because your situation may be different. I know my last detox is completely wrong for the OP. They didn't use regularly until pretty recently and not in large amounts. Buprenorphine maintenance would just make it worse and prolong PAWS.

I'm in no way saying your experience is wrong and the numbers you stated may have a been true in your case. But that doesn't mean those are typical. It's one thing to say hey I used x amount for x length of time and this is how it was for me. It's another thing to say this is how it is and this is what you should do, unless that's based off more than just your experience. I've worked with a lot of addicts, done a lot of recovery, and yes I read a lot. So I usually suggest something based on a common detox protocol.

Get what I'm trying to say? If it came off harsh, I apologize. I just don't want the OP to end up on maintenance for a habit that doesn't require it, especially when there are other treatment options.

Edit: my point with the 1-10 scale was what if he says say, 3. What does that mean? I don't know how long they've used, what amounts, their history, etc.

Also, acute withdrawal may not last long but it doesn't mean you don't feel like shit. But while you're on bupe, you've stopped PAWS. You can be on bupe a year and go off and you still have to go through PAWS from the beginning. So unless you're an addict that should be on maintenance, staying on bupe isn't doing you any favors.

I think maybe you just thought the OP had been physically dependent longer?

 

[mabzie55]

Yeah I get what you're saying.

IMO I still think a short bupe taper is the best route. When I was at roughly the same point as the OP a 4 day taper got me off of junk... For awhile.

Unfortunately I went back and used daily for years so I needed a much longer taper. That's just what worked for me personally.

And yeah the first time I read through it it seemed like he was using relatively often for the full 6 months, not 3 weeks.