Gibberings CLXXXI - Is it Christmas yet?

[lurching]

I think im gonna refer myslef back to services, struggling to find my way out of this mess on my own, i cant remember the last time that my energy and motivation has been so low. I think that stashing or getting rid of that bottle of G would be a good start, or at least cutting down to one small dose of an early evening, its just what i dont need atm. Its impeding my etiz taper, which atm is my number 1 goal. Im sure I'll have more energy when i get my etiz reduced. Not sure if i have the will power to "stash" the GBL, probably need to get rid of it and start at least facing the days and evenings sober.

My pissy tone when I gave you advice in the GBL-thread was partly cos of the obviousness of you not being able to handle a bottle GBL. One small dose in the evening is REALLY difficult with that stuff, in my experience much more so than with benzos or alcohol. Also there's a very fine line to thread with dosing GBL and this gets exponentially more risky if you have as much benzos in your system as you do. Plus the rebounds/WDs can be insidious and you seem like too much of a GABA fiend to avoid those. Try a non-GABA euphoriant instead.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

White man speak truth. Yeah, it was stupid, reckless and irresponsible of me, if i keep the GBL its possibly gonna be about 6 months wasted, as a little goes a very long way, plus possibly acquiring a GBL addiction to boot whilst slowly getting through it all. Not really gonna be helpful atall.

I know this sounds like excuses, but im partly putting this out there for HR reasons as well; possibly part of the reason i got away with it is that my benzo tolerance is still very hefty, ive no doubt if i dint have the RC benzo tolerance that i do i could have died that night. Sobering up, and giving up/cutting down on my vices, is going to be a very long, slow and tedious process, but i know it will be worth it in the long run. If and when i get down to 1~2mg of etiz i may check myself into a rehab. And given how long it takes to get a place in these places i might as well start looking into it now. It'll probably be a good 6 months beofre i get my etiz down to 1~2mg. From what i gather you get a month, and there's not a cat in hells change im going from 10.5 mg of etiz to 0 in one month. Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Plus they'd probably offer me no more than something like 2mg of diaz right from the start, which coming down from 10.5 mg of etiz sounds quite horrendous.

 

[Allein]

I just feel like ive got that much on my plate it just seems like a mountain to climb.. i know that CBT is not the easiest and a fair amount of effort has to be put in, maybe that would just seem like another load on top of what im already carrying.

I tied the NHS CBT 'light' which was nothing but online stuff and a weekly phone call, I didnt find it useful at all but it was a root to a proper face to face CBT course.

I think all counselling is very much dependant on you getting on with the specific counceller , I got on well with mine and found it really helped me start getting to grips with a few long since buried issues as well as providing some really simple but effective ways to start making progress. IT wasnt a silver bullet, I donlt belive such a thing exists but it's had a long lasting positive effect.

The NHS are supposed to be supporting this even more since I did it, it's got to be worth a GPs visit to see what they can provide ??

 

[Sammy G]

Plus they'd probably offer me no more than something like 2mg of diaz right from the start, which coming down from 10.5 mg of etiz sounds quite horrendous.

I dunno. It wouldn't be comfortable, but that 2mg of diaz would keep you from full withdrawal.

I'm not at the 10.5mg of etiz stage just now, but I was earlier in the year when I had a bereavement / other stresses, and I'm down to a maximum of 2mg at night now, with my supply dwindling rapidly. I've achieved this in part through using 0.5 - 1mg diclazepam in the evening.

At first I was craving the warmth of the etiz all day, but over time I've come to barely notice it.

And GBL? Bad, bad idea for you, I agree.

I don't think I really did proper CBT with my CPN, was more just talk therapy... worked well enough though. Hopefully it'll be something like that rather than getting shuttled back and forth... I've heard that often happens with people who have dual diagnosis. (I assume it's more than just the substance problems... sure other stuff comes along with that sort of thing?)

People whose lives are in imminent danger of collapse do (and should) get prioritised. I've benefited from this massively, all because of the dual diagnosis thing.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I dunno. It wouldn't be comfortable, but that 2mg of diaz would keep you from full withdrawal.

I'm not at the 10.5mg of etiz stage just now, but I was earlier in the year when I had a bereavement / other stresses, and I'm down to a maximum of 2mg at night now, with my supply dwindling rapidly. I've achieved this in part through using 0.5 - 1mg diclazepam in the evening.

At first I was craving the warmth of the etiz all day, but over time I've come to barely notice it.

And GBL? Bad, bad idea for you, I agree.

As you've probably gathered im far too much of a pussy to face too much discomfort, plus from what i gather The Ashton Method of a long slow drawn out gradual taper keeps discomfort to the mimimum, and also promises a better outcome at the end. Otherwise i could be looking at months of 'mental totrure' at the end of it all whilst i 'return to normal'. The AM is meant to minimise all this sort of thing.

I think belief plays a large part in this sort of thing, as a lot of it can be all in the mind, and as i fully belive in the thinking and theory behind the AM my mind is already set on that course. Part of the problem is that i keep on stalling and sabotaging my taper through getting in other substances which fucks up a neatly planned taper, which would be much more realistically and quickly achievable otherwise if i was able to resist getting all these other things in on a weekly/fortnightly basis.

 

[Sammy G]

If you're prepared to go the distance, then stick with the Ashton Manual by all means.

Trouble is, you're using a benzo which is one of the worst offenders when it comes to lapses in judgement (i.e. buying drugs that are going to set you back), and it's a short-acting benzo too. I think you'd notice a change in your outlook if you were to switch to diaz / diclaz.

 

[masaz]

Oh god Diclazepam. Had some yesterday for a hangover, and I've never found it very potent before, esp from this vendor. I remember very little but apparently I was kicking the wall in my sleep and when physically restraining me didn't work, I dunno what she was trying to do, but I managed to boot my partner in the face whilst still asleep. Fortunately I have small feet and wasn't wearing boots and all is well but still. Then I followed her downstairs where she took the same can ashtray off me at least five times, then got myself locked in my own bathroom. Which doesn't have a lock. Diclaz is great for tapering though, as is Diaz, providing you don't bloody take as much as I did.

Feel good today tho! Fireworks and then BBQ tonight

 

[Sammy G]

I dunno what she was trying to do, but I managed to boot my partner in the face whilst still asleep.

That's the spirit. Keep it up.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Theres definateely some truth to that, and definately worth considering, the only problem is that ive already got in enough enough etiz powder to get me down to my 1-2mg goal. (All the UK vendors selling out of their etiz prompted a bit of a panic buy, plus it was much better VFM to get a decent size stash in whilst i had the money to do so)

If i get through all that before i reach 1-2 mg then i'll switch to diclaz, i should be somwhere near my goal by then. I cannot afford to simply pour my etiz stash down the drain. Ive hpahazardly got down from 35mg, one way or another, and with a bit more focus and determination i should be able to get into single digits within a couple of weeks. And then its gonna seem a bit less of a mountain to climb. Thanks for the suggession though, i reckognise its a good one.

This talk of diclaz being toxic worries me a bit, have you ever heard anything about that? Doesnt diclaz affect your judgement as badly as etiz can, ive hears that its less clear headed and generally much more "mongy" than etiz.

 

[Sammy G]

I believe most benzos are toxic to some degree - temazepam springs to mind, as does nitrazepam.

As for diclaz being 'mongy', I've never found it to be so. It can surprise you if you drink on top of it, but it's far more functional than etiz. Only you must make sure you start at the lowest dose possible, and remember to dose once daily at the very most.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Ok thats good to hear. Its still someway off though, I'll get some in once i start nearing my etiz dose goal. Unless sources start drying up which will prompt another panic buy. I dont see that being a problem though, i can have a load of benzo powders lying around and most of the time more or less stick to the taper plan, without going crazy with them and be reasonably disciplined with my dosing, apart from when other substances some into the equation. That allways stalls/fucks up the taper.

If i go the rehab route though i can dispense with the diclaz and just take w/e i get offrered there.

 

[ScotchMist]

I tied the NHS CBT 'light' which was nothing but online stuff and a weekly phone call, I didnt find it useful at all but it was a root to a proper face to face CBT course.

I think all counselling is very much dependant on you getting on with the specific counceller , I got on well with mine and found it really helped me start getting to grips with a few long since buried issues as well as providing some really simple but effective ways to start making progress. IT wasnt a silver bullet, I donlt belive such a thing exists but it's had a long lasting positive effect.

The NHS are supposed to be supporting this even more since I did it, it's got to be worth a GPs visit to see what they can provide ??

Well yeah, im waiting to hear back from the mental health team on monday after they've reviewed my case as to what they think is best for me..

Ive a sneaking suspicion that they're going to treat it as a drug treatment issue and not a mental health one though. Which it is in a way but drug treatment services only seek out to stop you taking drugs, not to help seek out the reason why.. ime anyway. I can stop taking drugs, ive proven that time after time, i fail to stay away from them though

 

[Allein]

^^ I'm not up to date with the latest criteria, they wouldnt treat me until I stopped drinking but they knew I was taking illicit benzos, this seemed to be a some what contentious issue with counsellors as many could see the stupidity of it.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Well yeah, im waiting to hear back from the mental health team on monday after they've reviewed my case as to what they think is best for me..

Ive a sneaking suspicion that they're going to treat it as a drug treatment issue and not a mental health one though. Which it is in a way but drug treatment services only seek out to stop you taking drugs, not to help seek out the reason why.. ime anyway. I can stop taking drugs, ive proven that time after time, i fail to stay away from them though

mention that to them, any team worth their salt would take that onboard, and look to forwarding you onto the next stage, like recovery gropus and stuff like that, maybe counselling and such like to try to get to the root cause. Otherwise things could become a never ending revloving door of quitting/relapsing, quitting/relapsing for ever. Sorry to sound pessimistic but from what you say it sounds like just quitting isnt going to be enough if you have trouble staying quit. You might need ongoing support to stay quit.

 

[masaz]

That's the spirit. Keep it up.

I'm doing my best Fuck knows how she managed it to be honest.

I've heard nowt about Diclaz being toxic til now, it definitely helped me get off etiz and there's a tiny bit of monginess if you take a relatively high dose; I was still working on the assumption I have a huge tolerance and necked the lot. Slept like a baby though! But yeah it is good and at 'normal' levels re: your own tolerance it's a great one to withdraw with. Diaz is even better just cos you've got a (hopefully) good doc and prescriptions are cheaper than etiz...in most cases. Good luck anyway!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Snolly havent you already withdrawn from benzos once, not meaning to alarm you, just something to be aware of that benzo w/d is meant to be worse each time you go through it. It sounded like you got off very lightly on your first w/d, i guess that makes it easier to slip back into using them, thinking 'that wasnt so bad'.

 

[acieed_ed]

'Ello again
decided to abandon the mdma xtal for tn did half a bag of v strong h with 3x10mg diaz+1mg alpraz feeling v nice cleaned apartment washed clothes etc on an energetic OCD opiate buzz noice. No mixing md with this. Happy out
plur

 

[masaz]

Snolly havent you already withdrawn from benzos once, not meaning to alarm you, just something to be aware of that benzo w/d is meant to be worse each time you go through it. It sounded like you got off very lightly on your first w/d, i guess that makes it easier to slip back into using them, thinking 'that wasnt so bad'.

Cheers for concern Yeah I have done, twice actually. Was hell enough the first time and the second time was horrific, but girlfriend is into stims and I like them for tripping or crippling hangovers so trying to keep an eye on it and she hides them. I am actually trying to avoid them as much as possible cos I've got a flight next year and I will definitely definitely need em them so can't do with a tolerance, club to the back of the head would probably hurt more.

 

[ColtDan]

Just remember that the feeling of despair is just the comedown. I know that feeling too well and would also be quiet and anxious when sober.

I let too many comedowns like that get to me and started to believe the horrible thoughts I would have.

Likewise. Meph is terrible for that

 

[curious_24]

Hi all, back for a while after sorting some family stuff. Have I missed much?

Btw, thanks for all the concerned PMs whilst I was away...