Women. Religion’s longest running victims.

[rickolasnice]

The riches of the Vatican are merely blessings from the lord Jesus Christ. So many of these blessings they pass along to impoverished people and send missionaries to remote regions across the world to spread the word of Scripture and offer critical supplies. You don't hear about these in the newspapers though, or the magazines or in the cinema. I'm sorry you believe these things about the Vatican, but perhaps you get these ideas from our media which is dominated entirely by Zionists.

Blessings from the Lord Jesus?

It's the rich taking money from the poor..

Yes they do send unpaid sheep around the world trying to increase the size of the heard.

Some of the money is used to buy property.. churches, halls, shops, etc etc.. some of it is used to pay off the families of children that were abused by priests etc etc.. Some of it was used to help smuggle world war 2 criminals from country to country.. and a whole host of other dodgy shit.

Criminal activity at ze bank?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banco_Ambrosiano

And again? :O

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23289297

Where do you think the stolen goods that Titus took from the Temple are? Including the Menorah?

 

[Xorkoth]

The fact that women are not allowed to be priests is a piece of evidence of the Catholic church's misogyny. As far as I can see, it's a bit of a joke to try to claim that the religion is not misogynistic. Never mind all the people who try to use Old Testament scriptures to justify it... it would be impossible to try to take the entire OT as a whole and claim that it doesn't contain horribly misogynistic ideas towards women. Stoning women for infidelity or even less is contained in those passages as well. I don't believe anyone who is Christian should be quoting anything from the OT as evidence of how to believe or act anyway, since Jesus' ministry is entirely contained in the NT and his ministry was a reaction again the old status quo that he found to be immoral and incorrect, but so many Christians regularly quote the OT when it's convenient for them to justify their bigotry or specific desires.

I'm no Christian, I believe spiritually based on my own collective life experiences, but I love the teachings of Jesus in their unpolluted form. I believe he was a great and insightful man who had the right idea, that we simply need to treat one another with unconditional love and help our fellow man regardless of ethnicity, gender, etc etc. I don't even believe he was trying to create an organized religion, to me it seems that the entire idea of organized religion probably repulsed him. He was trying to guide people on a spiritual path that would be good for individuals and the world. Organized Christianity as an institution is an oxymoron.

 

[legalizeall]

Totally agree with Xorkoth. I think thats the only really valuable area in the bible. Doesnt matter what beliefs you have or if you have no beliefs, everyone can learn and pick up things to use in life from the stories about Jesus. It was just way to live a decent life and be kind to your fellow man. We could all do that a little more these days.

 

[LosBlancos]

The fact that women are not allowed to be priests is a piece of evidence of the Catholic church's misogyny. As far as I can see, it's a bit of a joke to try to claim that the religion is not misogynistic.

Misogynistic means hating women, barring them from priesthood hardly constitutes hate. You lot seem to brush away the barbaric treatment of women in Islamic societies while condemning the Church for not allowing women to be priests. I cannot be a waiter at Hooters do you consider that sexism against men? It's the same concept as women not being priests. What about the fact women are not drafted into the American military ? Misogyny as well?

It's laughable that in a discussion about repression against women via religion you choose to target Christianity while other ideologies are stoning women to death daily for infidelity, allow forced marriages of children, genital circumcision, and some don't even allow women to drive or walk about freely without a male companion.

 

[RichardMooner]

Satan is a mythical character. What you are seeing is Catholic misogyny and type casting that show the immorality of Christianity.

Boo hoo said Adam. That woman you gave me made me eat. Boo hoo. So much for strong male characters.

Regards
DL

I understand the Catholic misogyny behind it, I was just pointing out that the Bible uses male pronouns when speaking of Satan, so it's not a problem with the Bible, it's a problem with the Church. And using female pronouns when describing Satan because the Catholic Church has depicted him that way, is almost kind of misogynistic in and of itself.

 

[RichardMooner]

Misogynistic means hating women, barring them from priesthood hardly constitutes hate. You lot seem to brush away the barbaric treatment of women in Islamic societies while condemning the Church for not allowing women to be priests. I cannot be a waiter at Hooters do you consider that sexism against men? It's the same concept as women not being priests. What about the fact women are not drafted into the American military ? Misogyny as well?

It's laughable that in a discussion about repression against women via religion you choose to target Christianity while other ideologies are stoning women to death daily for infidelity, allow forced marriages of children, genital circumcision, and some don't even allow women to drive or walk about freely without a male companion.

Once again, oppression is not justified by relativity. No one is blowing off Islam, it's just not on topic right now. Misogyny does mean the hatred of women, but in the colloquial, it's used to describe something that is a contributing factor in the oppression of women. We're talking about women being treated and viewed as inferior to men.

Islam is not an exception, but you seem to think that Christianity is an exception because Islam is more oppressive.

 

[LosBlancos]

Once again, oppression is not justified by relativity. No one is blowing off Islam, it's just not on topic right now. Misogyny does mean the hatred of women, but in the colloquial, it's used to describe something that is a contributing factor in the oppression of women. We're talking about women being treated and viewed as inferior to men.

Islam is not an exception, but you seem to think that Christianity is an exception because Islam is more oppressive.

Oppression is justified by relativity, how many women have their lives seriously altered by them not being allowed to being a priest? Compare that to having to wear a full veil showing only their eyes, being sold to an old man at the age of 12 for marriage, and having their clitoris cut off?

In Brazil the country with most Catholics in the world, a woman was just reelected to their Presidency. Argentina another large Catholic country also has a woman as President. If a woman can become the most powerful person in those countries which are populated almost entirely by Catholics then I fail to see where the oppression is.

 

[Xorkoth]

Oppression is oppression, whether it's just a bit of it or a tremendous amount. It is not relative.

In Brazil the country with most Catholics in the world, a woman was just reelected to their Presidency. Argentina another large Catholic country also has a woman as President. If a woman can become the most powerful person in those countries which are populated almost entirely by Catholics then I fail to see where the oppression is.

Brazil is Brazil, and it's a country experiencing a huge surge of female power right now, which is a great thing. But it's not like that in every Catholic country, now is it? I would agree that a lot of progress has been made since earlier centuries as far as releasing that grasp over women, but it's not gone from the religion. I know Christians who still argue that women are inferior because Eve ate the apple.

 

[LosBlancos]

Oppression is oppression, whether it's just a bit of it or a tremendous amount. It is not relative.



Brazil is Brazil, and it's a country experiencing a huge surge of female power right now, which is a great thing. But it's not like that in every Catholic country, now is it? I would agree that a lot of progress has been made since earlier centuries as far as releasing that grasp over women, but it's not gone from the religion. I know Christians who still argue that women are inferior because Eve ate the apple.

Yes Brazil is Brazil, the country with most Catholics in the world I think it is pretty significant they have a female as a President if we're talking about Christians or Catholic oppression of women.

Everything in the world is relative. A friend of Bill Gates that only makes $5 million a year may feel he is poor because he is only comparing himself to Bill Gates. But relative to everyone else in the world he is rich. I don't know which societies you think treat women perfectly and do not oppress at all given your broad definition of oppression. If you talked to women today I doubt any would say they are want to be able become a priest. Just like if you ask men if they want to be a waiter at Hooters, or ask men if they want to be go-go dancers.

According to a list of countries with most gender-equality: 1. Iceland 2. Finland 3. Norway 4. Sweden 5. Phillipines 6. Ireland 7. New Zealand 8. Denmark 9. Switzerland 10. Nicaraugaua...now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all of these countries predominanetly Christian. Interesting that this horribly oppressive religion has it's followers in the top countries for gender equality. What country is the ideal for you? Or is it some radical Marxist utopia that exists only in your mind?

 

[RichardMooner]

Oppression is justified by relativity, how many women have their lives seriously altered by them not being allowed to being a priest? Compare that to having to wear a full veil showing only their eyes, being sold to an old man at the age of 12 for marriage, and having their clitoris cut off?

In Brazil the country with most Catholics in the world, a woman was just reelected to their Presidency. Argentina another large Catholic country also has a woman as President. If a woman can become the most powerful person in those countries which are populated almost entirely by Catholics then I fail to see where the oppression is.

So if Catholics were forced to live in Ghettos because of their religious beliefs in the U.S, but they were tortured to death for their religious beliefs in China; the U.S is excused? By that logic, anything with less significance than something else doesn't matter. Which means that your thoughts and ideas are irrelevant because Chomsky is more intelligent than you.

Not to mention, you're contradicting your entire belief system. Jesus didn't preach inequality, and I truly doubt that he would condone gender inequity in the Christian Church just because gender inequity in Islam is a bigger problem. You're do not follow Christ; you follow the Church.

 

[RichardMooner]

In Brazil the country with most Catholics in the world, a woman was just reelected to their Presidency. Argentina another large Catholic country also has a woman as President. If a woman can become the most powerful person in those countries which are populated almost entirely by Catholics then I fail to see where the oppression is.

The Christian Church is still beating it into adolescent girls heads that they are never to engage in premarital sex because they will defile themselves, ruin their value, sin against the temple of God, and become unfit for a good husband. Slut, Whore, Twat, Hoe; all of these words are derived from the teachings of sexual immorality, implemented by the Christian Church.

The Church still teaches that women are here to please their husbands. That they are to do as their husband wishes, they are to fulfill his sexual needs whenever he has them, that he is the head of the family, he makes the decisions, etc.. The sexual exploitation of women is a HUGE problem in the Western world. Women are seen as sexual objects and if they do not meet the standards of society, they are ugly, nasty, disgusting....and the list goes on and on. Guess where the root of this problem lies? I'll give you a hint........ "Women are here to please their husbands".

 

[LosBlancos]

So if Catholics were forced to live in Ghettos because of their religious beliefs in the U.S, but they were tortured to death for their religious beliefs in China; the U.S is excused? By that logic, anything with less significance than something else doesn't matter. Which means that your thoughts and ideas are irrelevant because Chomsky is more intelligent than you.

Not to mention, you're contradicting your entire belief system. Jesus didn't preach inequality, and I truly doubt that he would condone gender inequity in the Christian Church just because gender inequity in Islam is a bigger problem. You're do not follow Christ; you follow the Church.

If you are going to crusade for women's rights I would place priority on where women are facing horrors such as genital mutilation, stoned to death or beheaded for minor transgressions, where they cannot drive before I go after the Church because their are no women priests. Sorry the Church isn't misogynistic it just holds some traditions like male priests, the fact that the military doesn't draft women is that misogynistic?

There will be inequality many places regardless of what the Church does. Humans are inherently inequal, everyone equal that would be an episode of the twilight zone.

Chomsky is an idiot, I really don't feel he is smarter than me. It can be argued every group of people in every country face some form of oppression, and to you it's all equal and we should consider one group of people not being allowed one very specific position in an organization to be actually more important than complete denial of rights, killing, and subservience.

 

[RichardMooner]

Everything in the world is relative. A friend of Bill Gates that only makes $5 million a year may feel he is poor because he is only comparing himself to Bill Gates. But relative to everyone else in the world he is rich. I don't know which societies you think treat women perfectly and do not oppress at all given your broad definition of oppression. If you talked to women today I doubt any would say they are want to be able become a priest. Just like if you ask men if they want to be a waiter at Hooters, or ask men if they want to be go-go dancers.

Considering that there is a set amount of yearly net income that defines poverty based on one's ability to live comfortably; your analogy does not work. Just because someone "feels" poor, does not make them poor. Relative to everyone else, he is not rich. He is rich because he makes $5 million a year; not because most other people make less than that. "Everything in this world is relative", no, absolutely not. You have a very poor understanding of relativity.

 

[LosBlancos]

Considering that there is a set amount of yearly net income that defines poverty based on one's ability to live comfortably; your analogy does not work. Just because someone "feels" poor, does not make them poor. Relative to everyone else, he is not rich. He is rich because he makes $5 million a year; not because most other people make less than that. "Everything in this world is relative", no, absolutely not. You have a very poor understanding of relativity.

So according to your definition of oppression for women it means "not being able to become a priest"? Oh what horrible horrible oppression.

I would think most women would prefer being able to become a President of their nation rather than a priest.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I understand the Catholic misogyny behind it, I was just pointing out that the Bible uses male pronouns when speaking of Satan, so it's not a problem with the Bible, it's a problem with the Church. And using female pronouns when describing Satan because the Catholic Church has depicted him that way, is almost kind of misogynistic in and of itself.

I agree that the church has problems and giving reality and literal life to imaginary constructs is one of the many problems it has.

Regards
DL

 

[RichardMooner]

So according to your definition of oppression for women it means "not being able to become a priest"? Oh what horrible horrible oppression.

I would think most women would prefer being able to become a President of their nation rather than a priest.

No, if that's the only problem that you see - you are an ignorant fool. Funny how you just ignored everything I said about The Church and what it teaches women and little girls.

But if we assume that women not being able to become Priests was the only problem, you're telling me that according to your belief system (Catholicism) - being in a position of power in the flesh, is better than being spiritually enlightened, and in a position of power in the spirit? Well, that has it. Once again, you are not a follower of Christ; you are a follower of the Church.

So, that wraps it up for me.

 

[Xorkoth]

You keep talking about degrees of a problem, as if only the higher end of that is actually a problem. In fact, any amount of negativity to peoples' lives from something constitutes a problem. If oppression of women is mild enough in most of the western world that there are far fewer problems than there are elsewhere or that there used to be, but there are still some problems, then there is still a problem.

But I don't expect to make a dent here so I guess I'm done.

 

[LosBlancos]

The Christian Church is still beating it into adolescent girls heads that they are never to engage in premarital sex because they will defile themselves, ruin their value, sin against the temple of God, and become unfit for a good husband. Slut, Whore, Twat, Hoe; all of these words are derived from the teachings of sexual immorality, implemented by the Christian Church.

The Church still teaches that women are here to please their husbands. That they are to do as their husband wishes, they are to fulfill his sexual needs whenever he has them, that he is the head of the family, he makes the decisions, etc.. The sexual exploitation of women is a HUGE problem in the Western world. Women are seen as sexual objects and if they do not meet the standards of society, they are ugly, nasty, disgusting....and the list goes on and on. Guess where the root of this problem lies? I'll give you a hint........ "Women are here to please their husbands".

Exploitation of women is a problem in the Western World? So not in the rest of the world as well? What about exploitation of men as well? In Qater thousands of men work as indentured servants to this day. Do we really need a Church to establish the idea that a wife pleases her husband sexually? Sexually pleasing each other is like one of the basis of a relationship at least she can't be taken out back and killed in an honour killing if she doesn't peform for the husband.

How is it that hard to grasp that Catholic countries have women presidents and the ones that don't have women as member of parliament or involved in positions of power like this?

 

[LosBlancos]

You keep talking about degrees of a problem, as if only the higher end of that is actually a problem. In fact, any amount of negativity to peoples' lives from something constitutes a problem. If oppression of women is mild enough in most of the western world that there are far fewer problems than there are elsewhere or that there used to be, but there are still some problems, then there is still a problem.

But I don't expect to make a dent here so I guess I'm done.

My coffee was cold this morning and my dress shirt was wrinkled after I put it on. I have problems too. Don't tell me these are minor degrees of problems, a problem is a problem, these bring negativity to my life.

 

[Xorkoth]

That's precisely what I said in my post... so we agree?