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Oysters instead of B12 supplements, for a raw food vegan diet?

ForEverAfter

ForEverAfter

Ex-Bluelighter
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I'm on a raw food vegan diet. I don't consume processed food or any products with added sugar.
Basically, a combination of: beans, sprouts, seeds, nuts, legumes, fruits, vegetables & fungi.
I only drink water, freshly squeezed juice, and natural mineral water.

Previously, with this sort of diet, I'd take iron and b12 supplements. But, this time, I don't want to.
I want to maintain a completely natural diet for a year.

I can't consume fortified cereals, because I'm gluten intolerant.
And, I'm not comfortable with consuming soy.

So, my solution is: 6 oysters, every 6 days... (Although technically not vegan, oysters aren't sentient.)

My question is, I guess: is this enough B12?

Also: can I get away with consuming six times my recommended daily dose, every six days? (I assumed it would be okay to do this, because of weekly B12 supplements.) Or is it different with supplements? Do I need to consume B12 containing foods every day? What if I double the number of oysters and consume a dozen per week?

I apologize if this has already been covered. I couldn't find the specific answers I needed.

Thanks, in advance.
-4ea
 
Oysters must be sentient because they cover grit in mother of pearl to avoid discomfort. Your body makes B12 and the great majority of people get plenty B12 without having to resort to supps. I wouldn't worry about it at all. It's verrry difficult to get a b12 deficiency.
 
Just make sauerkraut with raw cabbage and salt. It's easy, and the bacteria that grow in the brine will give you your B12.
 
It's actually quite easy to become deficient in B12, a significant portion of seniors are. I eat a fair bit of meat and still need to supplement.

You don't need B12 everyday, as your body stores it and uses it as needed. The amount one needs to ingest really varies, as it depends on how well you absorb it. Nutritional yeast is another source.

To be safe, I would try out your diet for a while and then get tested and see if your levels are sufficient.
 
Oysters must be sentient because they cover grit in mother of pearl to avoid discomfort.
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That doesn't prove sentience any more than a plant moving towards the sunlight to avoid the "discomfort" of shade. I'm not interested in discussing whether oysters are sentient. The jury is still out, on that one, as far as the (broader) scientific community is concerned.

I believe eating oysters would not be vegan.
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As I said, I don't want to debate the definition of the word vegan.

Your body makes B12 and the great majority of people get plenty B12 without having to resort to supps. I wouldn't worry about it at all. It's verrry difficult to get a b12 deficiency.
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Interesting. I've read the opposite. Can you elaborate a bit? I'm concerned about some of my drug use, combined with starvation, and the affect it has had on my vitamin/mineral levels. So, I'd rather be sure than sorry. But, I'm genuinely interested about how the body makes B12 and in what quantities.

Just make sauerkraut with raw cabbage and salt. It's easy, and the bacteria that grow in the brine will give you your B12.
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I appreciate the suggestion, but fermenting foods with bacteria doesn't fit into my plan. I generally eat ingredients separately and I don't like preparing/cooking/processing food in any way.

To be safe, I would try out your diet for a while and then get tested and see if your levels are sufficient.
Click to expand...

I will do this. Thank you.
 
Sauerkraut doesn't require cooking. You tear up cabbage and crush it with salt until liquid comes out. Then you pack it into a jar until it's immersed in the liquid.
 
I appreciate the suggestion, I do, but it requires too much preparation to fit into my dietary plan. I'd prefer to eat entirely fresh food that is not prepared in any way, whatsoever. I'm basically trying to revert back to a "natural" diet that would be possible if I was an animal. The bacteria that grows on fermented cabbage may have B12, but it doesn't really fit into what I'm trying to do. I'd rather eat oysters.
 
I'm not sure why you would choose to eat something non-vegan over a supplement. In my opinion, supplements cause much less harm.
I would suggest sticking with only B12 vitamin but getting your iron in other ways. Veggies (like spinach and kale, I believe) have iron. Eat enough of that.

Interesting although I'm not sure where you're trying to get with this diet. Being vegan itself is good and eating as raw as possible is good as well.
I suppose it depends on WHY. Personally, I'm vegetarian because I don't want to hurt animals. So switching to eating one animal wouldn't really work. But everyone is vegan for different reasons.
 
Like I said, oysters aren't sentient. They don't have (traditional) brains. They are much closer to plants than cows or chickens, in my opinion. Although they exist within the animal kingdom, that doesn't mean that they're capable of pain/suffering as we understand it.

You said that you're vegetarian (not vegan), meaning that you consume dairy and eggs? I'd argue that - practically speaking - this causes more pain to animals than the consumption of molluscs. Some people draw the line at consuming meat. Others draw the line at consuming animal products. I draw the line at sentience.

As you said, you don't want to hurt animals. That's the main reason people become vegan. What if - for the sake of argument - there's an animal that cannot be hurt? What is the difference between consuming that animal and consuming a vegetable? Neither act causes animals to suffer. Assuming that you're vegan for the sake of the animals, consuming non-sentient "animals" is still "vegan". Isn't it?

I'm not doing this solely to reduce the suffering of animals. I do intend to consume sashimi, for example, after a year of this diet. What I'm doing is mostly spiritual. I'm experimenting with what I consume and how it affects the clarity of God's voice.

I don't believe that an animal without a brain can suffer. So, I don't understand - from a purely logical perspective - why all vegan people don't consume molluscs. It's impossible to get B12 naturally in our diet, so the oyster clause makes a lot of sense to me. I don't want to consume pills with B12 in them. I'd rather consume fresh natural produce with B12.

As for iron, I consume so much spinach that my poo is green.

:)
 
google has a great feature where you just need to type the name of the food and nutrition, so in this case, "oyster nutrition" and it gives you a nutritional breakdown to the right of results. it says six medium oysters will give you 230% of the RDI, so apparently three a day would suffice. because B12 is a water-soluble vitamin, you can't just stock up once or twice a week and persist, you need as close to the 100% RDI as you can get every day.
 
Great, thanks. Almost there.

BlueIV said:
You don't need B12 everyday, as your body stores it and uses it as needed. The amount one needs to ingest really varies, as it depends on how well you absorb it. Nutritional yeast is another source.
Click to expand...

thujone said:
because B12 is a water-soluble vitamin, you can't just stock up once or twice a week and persist, you need as close to the 100% RDI as you can get every day.
Click to expand...

I need to know which one of these is correct. I read that you can take weekly doses of B12 supplements, so that suggests that you don't need to dose every day... Would half a dozen every two days work? (Sorry if I'm being difficult: oysters aren't sold, less than a half dozen.)

...

The google nutrition thing says,

Google said:
Per cent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
Click to expand...

My diet is more like 1000 calories. Does this affect my B12 RDI?
 
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thujone said:
google has a great feature where you just need to type the name of the food and nutrition, so in this case, "oyster nutrition" and it gives you a nutritional breakdown to the right of results. it says six medium oysters will give you 230% of the RDI, so apparently three a day would suffice. because B12 is a water-soluble vitamin, you can't just stock up once or twice a week and persist, you need as close to the 100% RDI as you can get every day.
Click to expand...
You will just urinate out any large excess, it's not like you can OD on it as easily as the fat-soluble vitamins. It is still stored up though. People who get vitamin B12 shots because medically they need them - not the spa BS ones - typically get them about once/month.
 
Vegan society website said:
take one supplement containing at least 10 micrograms of vitamin B12 every day. The Vegan Society's Veg1 supplement has been specifically formulated for vegans OR take one supplement containing at least 2000 micrograms of vitamin B12 every week.
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According to this, you have to take 30 times as much B12 if you do it weekly...

So: it seems that the dose for B12 increases significantly, if taken periodically?
 
wikipedia said:
The human intestinal tract itself may contain B12 producing bacteria in the small intestine, but it is unclear whether sufficient amounts of the vitamin could be produced to meet nutritional needs.
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From your link, BlueIV.
 
velmwend said:
Oysters must be sentient because they cover grit in mother of pearl to avoid discomfort. Your body makes B12 and the great majority of people get plenty B12 without having to resort to supps. I wouldn't worry about it at all. It's verrry difficult to get a b12 deficiency.
Click to expand...

Responding to stimuli doesn't equate to sentience - your argument makes absolutely no sense. And B12 deficiency is a very real concern, especially for raw vegans. It can cause serious, irreparable damage and isn't anything to play with. Basically, you have no idea what you're talking about.

llama112 said:
Personally, I'm vegetarian because I don't want to hurt animals. So switching to eating one animal wouldn't really work. But everyone is vegan for different reasons.
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Oysters have no central nervous system. Eating them doesn't hurt a thing. A quick google search re: the anatomy and structure of molluscs will make this very clear.

FOREVER - if you really don't want to use supplements or B12 fortified foods, I'd be careful with it, but it seems as though you could make it work. I did a quick search, and found the following re: absorption rates and how it varies depending upon frequency of consumption:

"National recommendations for B12 intakes vary significantly from country to country. The US recommended intake is 2.4 micrograms a day for ordinary adults rising to 2.8 micrograms for nursing mothers. The German recommendation is 3 micrograms a day. Recommended intakes are usually based on 50% absorption, as this is typical for small amounts from foods. To meet the US and German recommendations you need to obtain sufficient B12 to absorb 1.5 micrograms per day on average. This amount should be sufficient to avoid even the initial signs of inadequate B12 intake, such as slightly elevated homocysteine and MMA levels, in most people. Even slightly elevated homocysteine is associated with increased risk of many health problems including heart disease in adults, preeclampsia during pregnancy and neural tube defects in babies.

Achieving an adequate B12 intake is easy and there are several methods to suit individual preferences. Absorption of B12 varies from about 50%, if about 1 microgram or less is consumed, to about 0.5% for doses of 1000 micrograms (1 milligram) or above. So the less frequently you consume B12, the higher the total amount needs to be to give the desired absorbed amount."

Source: https://www.vegansociety.com/resour...e/vitamin-b12-your-key-facts/what-every-vegan
 
Thank you, very much.

Since fresh oysters aren't sold individually, or in threes, and they're really expensive, I've decided to go with mussels. Just bought a big bag of them. Going to eat 3 per day. I will get my levels tested in a month.

Thanks very much to everyone who contributed.

Much appreciated

-4ea
 
Fresh oysters are available here. It's hard to keep mussels fresh for very long, you don't want dead ones. Seafood has to be fresh, food poisoning is a real risk if they go bad & it's not pleasant.

Possibly fermented foods might be an option, otherwise it's supplements, eggs, dairy, meat, fish & shellfish. If you're willing to bend your veganism to shellfish, then what about insects, snails, or larger fish?
 
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oo i get heaps of B12 in energy drinks :)

haters -- i know they're bad for you but so are other things.

and yeah the B12 probably doesn't get absorbed at all. but still, +1 for effort.
 
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