Governments govern God. Should God govern governments?

[Gnostic Bishop]

Governments govern God.Should God govern governments?

At present, governmentscontrol the law of the land and church policy to a large extent. Should the lawof the land be God’s law?

Separation of church andstate, to my way of thinking, is impossible. To think that an elected official whoadheres to a religion can somehow leave his or her religion out of the housesof government when they enter to take their seat is ridiculous. Social,cultural and traditional conditioning that people live under cannot just be setaside in one’s mind. Further a representative must represent his constituentsand in the U.S. they will be religious constituents who wish to be representedas religious and not necessarily secular.

Christians and otherreligious seek to live in a theocracy under what I would call a Timocratic Tyranny.Timocratic in the sense that God rules for love, honor and duty. Tyrannical inthe sense that any who break any of the laws, large or small, are swiftly dealtwith. The non-religious seek more of a democratic nation where they make therules and not God. As a Gnostic Christian, I admit to being secular and have nolove of the laws the Gods offer.

At present, we all live in Oligarchiccountries. Some of these we call democratic, some communistic and others of variouslabels but at the end of the day, all of us live in Oligarchies. We are allowned and controlled by those with wealth and bought political power.

If I focus on the U.S., I donot see how it is possible for what many Americans call a Christian nation, tonot be conflicted, when Americans seek freedom and democracy in governance hereon earth, while seeking the Timocratic Tyranny of heaven.

This goes against the notionof as above so below, or as Christians say, on earth as it is in heaven.

For Christians to end thisgovernance conflict, --- they cannot have their cake and eat it too, ---Americanswould have to bring God’s law to earth and scrap the notions of democracy andvote for a Timocratic Tyranny like what God has in heaven.

To accomplish the Christiangoal of God’s law on earth as it is in heaven, the Christian right would haveto gain power and end democracy in the U.S.

I would ask those Christians onthe religious and political right, are you ready to try to dismantle the Oligarchyyou presently live under, --- end the farce of democracy, --- and install God’sTimocratic Tyranny?

Regards
DL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

 

[sekio]

To think that an elected official whoadheres to a religion can somehow leave his or her religion out of the housesof government when they enter to take their seat is ridiculous

Christians and otherreligious seek to live in a theocracy under what I would call a Timocratic Tyranny.

Nothing like broad, sweeping generalizations about others to prove your point... and maybe you forget that the US is not an excusively Christian country. Nor is it explicitly a Christian country. Melting pot, remember?

Also, considering nobody can agree on what exactly God's Law is, it would be difficult to implement it. Old testament or New? Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant? Do you wear mixed fibre clothes, like the rest of the sinners? Do you let women talk out-of-turn? Do you... er, something about crop rotation? And how about those cloven hoofed animals?

Double also, does the US Government really control church policy at all?

Triple also, who's going to enforce God's Law? Oh, right, fallible men and women. Unless you want some sort of North Korea style government enforced cult of personality, I believe you'll find it hard to coerce everyone into "enjoying" life under a theocracy.

 

[alasdairm]

"you must learn to master your rage, or rage will become your master"?



alasdair

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Nothing like broad, sweeping generalizations about others to prove your point... and maybe you forget that the US is not an excusively Christian country. Nor is it explicitly a Christian country. Melting pot, remember?

Also, considering nobody can agree on what exactly God's Law is, it would be difficult to implement it. Old testament or New? Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant? Do you wear mixed fibre clothes, like the rest of the sinners? Do you let women talk out-of-turn? Do you... er, something about crop rotation? And how about those cloven hoofed animals?

Double also, does the US Government really control church policy at all?

Triple also, who's going to enforce God's Law? Oh, right, fallible men and women. Unless you want some sort of North Korea style government enforced cult of personality, I believe you'll find it hard to coerce everyone into "enjoying" life under a theocracy.

I guess you missed where I would not vote for a theocracy.

My hope is that we go from the oligarchies that we presently have to a Timocratic Tyranny run by men.

God is way too big of an a hole and his morals are way to poor for us. We have already left him way behind.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

"you must learn to master your rage, or rage will become your master"?



alasdair

Just so you know, I feel disappointment a lot more than any rage.

You have been around and seen enough to know what I mean.

Unless your a theist. Then it may all be going the other way.

Regards
DL

 

[What 23]

Super 'A.I.' needs to come and govern us. I don't trust man.

 

[Teabag Johnny]

Are you referring to the United States?

 

[swilow]

^

If I focus on the U.S.,

Guess so.

I don't understand this last bit:

... a Timocratic Tyranny run by men.

What would that be and why would it be desireable? Or do you speak ironically?

 

[Teabag Johnny]

I thought the United States of today is more of a nation of Free Religion.

 

[VitamaN]

Ugh. God stuff. mer.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Super 'A.I.' needs to come and govern us. I don't trust man.

As we speak, governments are being inundated withinformation from demographers to the point where only a computer can track thetrends from the huge amount of information.

Soon now they will only be able to rule according to thenumbers.

We are almost ruled by computers right now.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Are you referring to the United States?

"If I focus on the U.S., I donot see how it is possible for what many Americans call a Christian nation, tonot be conflicted, when Americans seek freedom and democracy in governance hereon earth, while seeking the Timocratic Tyranny of heaven."

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

^


Guess so.

I don't understand this last bit:



What would that be and why would it be desireable? Or do you speak ironically?

My sneaky way to have people look up what a Timocratic system is as well as the other types of systems Socrates and the boys bandied about.

As I loosely described it, ruling for love of honor and duty, I see this as the best form of Government. It would have to be connected to a tyrannical law system though to work. If instituted by man it would work excellently. If instituted by God, of course, it would not work as we do not have a God at hand.

Today, leaders rule to the needs of the economy as they all try to buy votes. If we do not seek a better way to rule, like honor and duty, the general morality of the population will not improve as quickly as it should.

This is all unproven speculation of course.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I thought the United States of today is more of a nation of Free Religion.

The U.S. does not have a separation of church and state.

How can the u. S. claim such when their dollar as well as theirpledge of allegiance promotes God?

Both actively promote religions and God.

Regards
DL

 

[rickolasnice]

My sneaky way to have people look up what a Timocratic system is as well as the other types of systems Socrates and the boys bandied about.

As I loosely described it, ruling for love of honor and duty, I see this as the best form of Government. It would have to be connected to a tyrannical law system though to work. If instituted by man it would work excellently. If instituted by God, of course, it would not work as we do not have a God at hand.

Today, leaders rule to the needs of the economy as they all try to buy votes. If we do not seek a better way to rule, like honor and duty, the general morality of the population will not improve as quickly as it should.

This is all unproven speculation of course.

Regards
DL

Love of honour and duty? What? Sorry GB but you've lost me..

How do you know Obama isn't ruling for those reasons? People's definition and interpretation of what that means will be different.. person to person..

What do you mean by it?

 

[Foreigner]

I think the U.S. bill of rights' understanding of inalienable human rights that are God-given is a better policy. Err on the side of the individual and their inherent nature. We can prove what God wanted us to be by looking at what we are. There's no point in interpreting "God's law" since humans have done that for centuries and look at where it has landed us: war, genocide, separatism, poverty; but if we look within ourselves to understand the nature of the individual then it makes far more sense to create laws based on those needs, not on some nebulous idea of what God needs.

The only tangible thing in the here and now is us. We should work with human nature. I do, however, like the idea of formalizing the notion that there are powers greater than government... whether it's the People, nature, the divine, the universe, whatever. It's good to enshrine limitations to human power so that there is always something greater that must be reckoned with.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Love of honour and duty? What? Sorry GB but you've lost me..

How do you know Obama isn't ruling for those reasons? People's definition and interpretation of what that means will be different.. person to person..

What do you mean by it?

True that there would be different theories and a debate would have to determine what those terms actually mean. Presently, the duty or honor that any leader shows has been bought and paid for by some oligarch and we dance to whatever he personally thinks of those terms.

Honor and duty, of an acceptable type, like morals, must be a consensus.

That said, I think our first duty is to the backbone of any country. The family unit. This would include a duty to see to it that it is medically fit, mentally fit/educated, and has a reasonable life style. Doing even just that would bring honor to a nation.

We cannot say we are doing that now when we have to rely on schools and food stamps to feed our kids in a healthy way.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I think the U.S. bill of rights' understanding of inalienable human rights that are God-given is a better policy. Err on the side of the individual and their inherent nature. We can prove what God wanted us to be by looking at what we are. There's no point in interpreting "God's law" since humans have done that for centuries and look at where it has landed us: war, genocide, separatism, poverty; but if we look within ourselves to understand the nature of the individual then it makes far more sense to create laws based on those needs, not on some nebulous idea of what God needs.

The only tangible thing in the here and now is us. We should work with human nature. I do, however, like the idea of formalizing the notion that there are powers greater than government... whether it's the People, nature, the divine, the universe, whatever. It's good to enshrine limitations to human power so that there is always something greater that must be reckoned with.

Well put.

That is basically how Gnostic Christians willthink of God. If found, he is to be set aside, the bar of excellence raise, anda better way sought.

Be it a God or political system, to accept it as the best isto deprive ourselves of the best. The best should always be sought. That is howsystems evolve.

This thinking is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught byJesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethrento Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, thenyou will begin to know the only God you will ever find.

Regards
DL