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The ISIS Megathread

bit_pattern said:
ByXEC_0CQAASdZw.jpg:large
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While What 23 is being completely unreasonable, I think this is a bit of a stretch too. The attitude in this sign suffers from the same error as he is making, which is lumping all Muslims into the same category. Making a friend with a member of ISIS isn't going to happen.
 
what 23 said:
I see the parasite is with you, quite. As much as you wish, or think, you will not be represented in the certain future. You will be consumed. You're like an incapacitated bug that another laid its eggs in for its offspring's first food.
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C'mon, guys! Let's get fucking weird.

ebola
 
Norf said:
While What 23 is being completely unreasonable, I think this is a bit of a stretch too. The attitude in this sign suffers from the same error as he is making, which is lumping all Muslims into the same category. Making a friend with a member of ISIS isn't going to happen.
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The underlying point that the sign is glibly making is that the tool for recruitment by radical groups among western-born Muslims is the sense of disenfranchisement and alienation from mainstream society. It's a comment being made in the context of the current environment in Australia where there has been healthy and unhealthy debate around the perceived threat we face and the dynamics driving it - in amongst the hateful fear-mongering ("they hate our way of life") there has been more nuanced debate surrounding inclusiveness and exclusiveness as a result of our governments attempt to frame the debate around insiders and outsiders (the phrase "Team Australia" has been seized upon by the government for instance to draw boundaries around who is in and who is out). So if we as a community can do more to make our Muslim members feel a part of society then there will be less alienation and disenfranchisement and the community will be safer as a result.

It's not going to physically defeat ISIS but it is going to do more to reduce their appeal to vulnerable young people than simp,y declaring "you're either with us or against" us which is rapidly becoming the dominant narrative.
 
http://www.theage.com.au/act-news/m...ffers-help-to-government-20140927-10mxqx.html

A grassroots social movement which began in Sydney in 2005 to counter extremist propaganda targeted at Muslim youth says it is ready to help the federal government, if it wants assistance developing deradicalisation programs.

The community program was founded by Mustapha Kara-Ali, a member of former prime minister John Howard's Muslim Community Reference Group, in 2005 in Sydney and secured government funding in 2006.

Funding was discontinued by subsequent governments but the Building Identity and Resisting Radicalisation initiative still runs on a volunteer basis to empower at-risk Muslim youth to challenge extremist radicalisers and their messages.

Mr Kara-Ali said disengagement of Muslim youth from society often began when young people struggled to find their place the community, leaving them vulnerable to the extremist agenda.

"The big challenge in my assessment that faces us today with the rise of a new wave of violent extremism is how do we undercut the propaganda of extremists on social media and elsewhere, while facilitating for those who wish to join Australians in dissuading other young Australians that might be considering joining up with these groups," he said.

The program identified the problem of the growing reliance of Australian-born Muslim youth on religious information promoting extremism in the name of Islam and the distribution of such material in various prayer halls and particular suburbs which led to the formation of youth sub-cultures of alienation and disenfranchisement.

Mr Kara-Ali has been sponsored by an Australian Government Endeavour Malaysia Award to undertake a postdoctoral research fellowship at Harvard University.

He is working on further developing the BIRR program at Harvard University's Divinity School.

The mentoring initiative secured funding in 2006 and was piloted in 2007 in south-west Sydney and later extended into Melbourne and online into other cities.
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bit_pattern said:
The underlying point that the sign is glibly making is that the tool for recruitment by radical groups among western-born Muslims is the sense of disenfranchisement and alienation from mainstream society. It's a comment being made in the context of the current environment in Australia where there has been healthy and unhealthy debate around the perceived threat we face and the dynamics driving it - in amongst the hateful fear-mongering ("they hate our way of life") there has been more nuanced debate surrounding inclusiveness and exclusiveness as a result of our governments attempt to frame the debate around insiders and outsiders (the phrase "Team Australia" has been seized upon by the government for instance to draw boundaries around who is in and who is out). So if we as a community can do more to make our Muslim members feel a part of society then there will be less alienation and disenfranchisement and the community will be safer as a result.

It's not going to physically defeat ISIS but it is going to do more to reduce their appeal to vulnerable young people than simp,y declaring "you're either with us or against" us which is rapidly becoming the dominant narrative.
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It is a terrible angle for them to push. This sign associates all Muslims with ISIS and contains a bit of an implicit threat-- that Muslims who feel disenfranchised will potentially become part of ISIS. A far better PR move would be to say, "We're not ISIS", or something equally distancing from the group. Maybe something patriotic like, "We are Australians" would be good. The sign that they used is definitely designed to stir the pot by making an unpopular and somewhat preposterous statement, and is definitely not the route I'd be taking as a Muslim organization in Australia right now. Ironically, the sign actually seems to entrench the very disenfranchisement that you mentioned.
 
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Quotes from Muslims:

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
- Omar M. Ahmad, founder of Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

"I want to see the U.S. become an Islamic nation.”
- Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR Spokesperson

"Ultimately, we (Muslims) can never be full citizens of this country ... because there is no way we can be fully committed to the institutions and ideologies of this country"
- Ihsan Bagby, CAIR

"No we don’t want to democratize Islam, we want to Islamize democracy" "We love you, America – and we want your children for Islam"
- Islam on Capitol Hill.com

"It should be us, with our understanding of Islam, our principles, colonizing positively the United States of America."
- Tariq Ramadan, Professor of Islamic Studies at Oxford University

"I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate. The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, has to be Islam"
- Abu Bakr, Muslim Cleric

"In the end of the day, Islam must control earth, whether we like it or not."
- Abu Hamza al-Masri, Islamic Cleric

"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians…Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value."
- British career welfare recipient Sheikh Omar Bakri

"We must not forget that Allah's rules have to be established in all lands..."
- Imam Muzammil H. Siddiqi, Islamic Society of North America

"In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing. And the only thing left will be Islam."
- Siraj Wahhaj, Brooklyn, New York Imam

“Muslims cannot accept the legitimacy of the secular system in the United States, for it "is against the orders and ordainments of Allah"
- Imam Zaid Shakir, Former Muslim Chaplain at Yale University

"Greater integration between Islam and the West depends on incorporation of Sharia law into the legal systems of Europe and the U.S."
- Ground Zero Mosque Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf

"I am a traitor to America because my religion requires me to be. We pledge to wage jihad for the rest of our lives until either we implant Islam all over the world or meet our Lord as bearers of Islam."
- Samir Khan

"This religion [Islam] will destroy all other religions through the Islamic Jihad fighters"
- Jordanian/Palestinian School Book 1998

"Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers."
- Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan

"Islam not a religion of violence, but if you burn Qur'ans or draw Muhammad, we'll kill you"
- Gambian President

"The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, Jihad Is Our Path & Death in the Name of Allah Is Our Goal"
- Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi

"I say to America the Islamic Caliphate has been established and we will not stop ... God willing, and we will raise the flag of Allah in the White House."
- Abu Mosa, ISIL militant, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL)

"#AmessagefromISIStoUS #US #USA This is a message for every American citizen, you are the target of every Muslim in the world wherever you are."
- mohibKordi, ISIL militant, tweet

"We are in your state We are in your cities We are in your streets You are our goals anywhere."
- Sunna_rev, ISIL militant, tweet
 
What 23 said:
Quotes from Muslims:
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This thread is way more interesting when the topic at hand is actually being discussed and you're not here spamming it to death with copy and pastes to promote your anti-Islamic agenda.

Why don't you go and start your own Islamophobia Megathread and let everyone else discuss this specific issue in peace?
 
I was wondering how many people besides myself think intervention (against ISIS) by western powers is a bad idea. After all, every time this has happened, the situation has only gotten worse. The ONLY people who will benefit are the so-called "defense" industry and its political lobby.

By "intervention," I mean military intervention.
 
There are reasons to be fearful of Islam. If you weren't so fucking dense with whatever you've accumulated you might be able to see it.

Anyways, socko, have not the Kurds, and many other people benefited, at least in the short term? I understand what you mean, but I think it might be overly simple.
 
socko said:
I was wondering how many people besides myself think intervention (against ISIS) by western powers is a bad idea.
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Nope I think it's a bad idea too. OMG I must be partially sane. America needs to stop acting like the worlds police and focus on fixing itself imo.

"The whole mess that we’ve been involved in, with the Middle East, has been technically illegal because we’ve initiated war but we haven’t declared war. … As a matter of fact, it’s immoral in a sense that our president wanted to wind these wars down. He was going to finish the war in Iraq, and here he is, expanding it massively."

-Ron Paul

bit_pattern said:
and you're not here spamming it to death with copy and pastes
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Lulz... You don't do that right?

What 23 said:
There are reasons to be fearful of Islam.
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Islam is one of the world's biggest religions and the majority of it's followers are peaceful. It's the extremists that give it a bad rap and also get all of the attention.
 
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The majority of Germans were peaceful in WWII. They also weren't all Nazis.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
 
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I'm going to have to admit I don't know what you mean by that here. What am I guilty of in that, that I have accused another?
 
Do you know what he meant? Care to enlighten me or do you just want to be immature, too?

If it's a matter of being "simple"... It is simple that Islam wants to dominate the world. Its humanitarian to Islam. Its Gods ultimatum for all to be under his laws. And its simple that I don't agree at all with their interpretation, and find it intolerant and restrictive.

What is simple about it being said that intervention doesn't help is that it has already saved many, many lives. But I guess they don't matter?
 
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