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Please save me from the needle

Get2Think

Get2Think

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
297
Location
The West
Hypothetically speaking would you be willing to spend 12 months living and working with a group of addicts to get sober? To those of you with longterm sobriety (6months and up) if the only way you could stay clean and sober would be to complete a 12 month program would you?

The reason I ask is because I have tried every avenue for my opiate addiction, minus methadone (kind of scared of it). And I have had almost 7 months of sobriety before I find a needle in my arm. That 7 months was fought for and earned very difficultly through doing all 12 steps, having a sponsor, and having AA commitments.

But I always go back. Right now I have a little IV heroin problem and am out of money and friends and family and all that. I still have a roof over my head and don't have any legal trouble or anything but I just can't bring myself to go to AA raise my hand as a newcomer, and try again. I feel like a failure, and I also feel like I've been down this path before and don't want to waste my time.

I am discouraged and scared. I don't have health insurance otherwise I would probley try and get on suboxone. Why? Well because I feel burnt out on recovery, and I feel like not even God or AA or NA can keep me sober. I ask myself if I am done using, and I am, well... I want to be. But mainly the reasons I've always quit in the past is because I had no money and had no choice, I had to quit.

I ask myself if I had enough money would I keep using dope and the answer is yes. I would tell myself that I would use until the New Year or what not and then give it up. So I just don't know how anyone heroin junkie can ever "just be done," and if they are, how do I get to that place? Do I have to hit a rock bottom? Do I have to loose my car, loose my place to live, etc. etc.

Heroin is a plague on my life, and I spent a week tapering and detoxing and got through withdrawals and was happy about it for a day. And then I didn't know why, maybe boredom, maybe fear, but I called my dealer and bought another bag and now it's been a few weeks and I have a habbit again and am looking at some mild WD's to be through.

I don't have anymore money and now am at the point of stealing my roomates change and stuff to buy a bag. If I got clean and could just not use heroin I could use what little money I do have for food and some bills to combat my credit getting totally ransacked because all my credit cards are maxed.

So should I do a 12 month program and go to the extreme to be free from heroin? I don't know what else to do, I know there are other programs that you work to be able to stay there, but I know AA also works and maybe rehab isn't needed. I just feel strung out, unmotivated, hopeless, scared, and unable to help myself out of this trench i dug for myself. 2 months ago I was approaching 5 months sober, had a cool new job, was fucking a hot blonde I met in program, and was getting out of financial bondage. Now I am more miserable than I have ever been in my 29 years on this planet. God help me.:(
 
I know several people who have completed 12 month programs. Most of them were IV drug users addicted to heroin and/or meth. None of them regretted it and it probably saved their lives. But they were all at rock bottom and ready and willing to do whatever it took.

If you're ready for that and nothing else has worked for you, I would take this opportunity. PAWS typically lasts a year and it will get you through the hardest part of it. I think a 12 month program can be crucial for hardcore addicts who no longer know how to live and function in the world without using. I'm also an IV user, and while I'm 4 months off dope, it's hard for me to even imagine a life without using.

But ultimately, you need to decide whether you can committee to this year. And whether you're fighting for your life... And whether you're willing to win that fight at all costs.

What do your friends/family think?
 
None of them know I have relapsed. I am living a lie primarily to not break my mothers heart and not loose my sober residency (have nowhere to go). So I'm really feeling alone this time around, although I have been here before so you would think it'd be clearer what I need to do to remove myself out from underneath heroins boot.
 
You're welcome to PM me, I'm also an IV user and over the last two years trying to get sober I've done inpatient, outpatient, SLEs, 12 step, LifeRing, counseling, psychiatric medication, buprenorphine, methadone, etc etc etc. It's literally the biggest struggle I will ever face in my life.

Doing a year program will force you to change. You'll have to learn everything from the beginning and you'll have to do the work. How miserable are you right now? Is life worth living? And can you see yourself not using without any radical change? Just some stuff to consider.
 
Throw all the guilt and shame out the window get2 and rocket away from it!! it does us no good, isn't warranted, and drives use.

Rock bottom.. such a awful name for this concept as it implies we need to get so low we no where to go but up. Thats bullshit.

When you think of use and recovery how is it in your mind.

Are you doing everything you can to try and not do something you feal is a really pleasurable because it carries with it very negative consequences for you?

Please read post two including the chapter I have linked in The Brain and Addiction thread. Your unconscious is addicted and drives you to use. The reason the fellowships so often fail has many aspects, but the most important is they replace our lost or underdeveloped morals and values with the fellowships. This is why we see the same fellowship clones at every meeting around the world. Please do not use typical addict thinking and say well shit that didn't work so fuck it it does not work I need to find something that does. You made an amazing accomplishment with your stretch of clean time. To make that amount of clean time some things must have worked really well. Please think back to the aspects you really found helpful and incorporate then into your new approach. Also what didn't work and what needs to be adjusted in your new approach?

This really comes down to fine tuning a specific program for yourself. I have had great success this time and i think its because i searched ever angle i could find and tried every thing I could think of. I threw back everything that didn't work for me after an honest shot and developed everything that did. I searched addiction until i figured out what the hell it actually is from the incredible amount of hypothetical nonsense.

Its a learning process. every time we slip back there is no need to feal ashamed or bad. We just need to look at it as an opportunity to learn. But we need to use this opportunity to see where our approach needs to be different or expanded. The old doing the same thing and expecting different results applies as much to recovery as it does to use.

Take a minute to read through the first post including he chapter linked and please use it to throw out all that negative judgement of yourself. The addicted part of the brain is tricky as shit.. it drives us mercilessly at active use, then it makes us feal bad about active use to drive us to use more.. its total mind fuck, so dont fall for its nonsense.

If you learn how it works you wont fall for the illusion or delusion it wields.
 
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^ I disagree. Rock bottom is going to be different for everyone. I've had friends with pretty high bottoms (they didn't have legal problems, major health problems, or other serious consequences) who were just sick of how they felt inside and disappointing family and friends and ultimately they were able to get clean and stay clean. But I've also had friends on the run, homeless, dying of this disease... who never got clean and either died or went to prison.

Your bottom is whenever you're truly done and ready to do whatever it takes to get sober. Sometimes we don't recognize that we had reached our bottom till later on, but only we can define it for ourselves. I don't think rock bottom is misleading at all. For a close friend of mine, it was simply stealing from his best friend since childhood.

However, it's been my experience that very few IV heroin addicts have high bottoms. Most of us are so in the grip of this disease that it takes losing everything for us to even consider that our lives are worth more than shooting dope. By the time we reach the point where we reach for the needle, it's usually already been a hard road. And it only gets harder, I've lost so many friends because the reality is that many of us risk our lives to continue addiction. Getting clean is probably the hardest thing we'll ever go through and if you're not done, you won't make it.
 
I took opiates and benzodiazepines for 7 years. I did the methadone treatment. Scared the shit out of me too, however, it was a five day taper, 25mg to 5mg. They give sleeping meds, clonidine, visterill and muscle relaxers, and it was just fine.

Like neversick said, the PAWS are the hardest part and will.last upto 2 months afterwards (the worst of them), but you will get meds to take home and help you function.

After 1 year all symptoms should be gone, but everyone is different. Exercise helps, so do detox baths if you cant workout. The sweating helps the toxins leave sooner.

Good luck,

Bob
Feel free to msg me if you want to talk more about the methadone treatment. DON'T USE SUBOXONE, ITS STILL AN OPIOID AND THE WITHDRAWAL FROM.THAT IS WORSE THAN OPIATES THEMSELVES.
 
bcfly7x7 said:
I took opiates and benzodiazepines for 7 years. I did the methadone treatment. Scared the shit out of me too, however, it was a five day taper, 25mg to 5mg. They give sleeping meds, clonidine, visterill and muscle relaxers, and it was just fine.

Like neversick said, the PAWS are the hardest part and will.last upto 2 months afterwards (the worst of them), but you will get meds to take home and help you function.

After 1 year all symptoms should be gone, but everyone is different. Exercise helps, so do detox baths if you cant workout. The sweating helps the toxins leave sooner.

Good luck,

Bob
Feel free to msg me if you want to talk more about the methadone treatment. DON'T USE SUBOXONE, ITS STILL AN OPIOID AND THE WITHDRAWAL FROM.THAT IS WORSE THAN OPIATES THEMSELVES.
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Lol really... Then what is methadone? Aspirin?

Heroin and methadone are both full agonist opioids. Methadone is just easier to taper because it has a longer duration of action and little to no euphoria.

Buprenorphine (subutex, suboxone) is an opioid as well, but it's only a partial agonist and its hard to abuse due to the ceiling effect that occurs at 32mg and its lack of sedation, euphoria, and other opiate like effects.

To explain it in really basic terms, full agonists dial the receptors all the way up while partial agonists only dial them part way. This allows addicts on buprenorphine to feel more normal and the withdrawal is much milder than methadone.

I understand you were just trying to help but poor advice could really do some harm if the OP didn't know any better or someone read your post and took it as fact. While it sounds like you had a good experience with methadone, please take some time to educate yourself.
 
neversickanymore said:
I think we have encountered a situation where we have failed for some reason through communication, because it totaly agree. A persons situation can have effect on this crucial moment, but no situation is required to have the essential miracle happen. :)
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Okay, no worries then ;)
 
rhun said:
Lol really... Then what is methadone? Aspirin




Heroin and methadone are both full agonist opioids. Methadone is just easier to taper because it has a longer duration of action and little to no euphoria.

Buprenorphine (subutex, suboxone) is an opioid as well, but it's only a partial agonist and its hard to abuse due to the ceiling effect that occurs at 32mg and its lack of sedation, euphoria, and other opiate like effects.

To explain it in really basic terms, full agonists dial the receptors all the way up while partial agonists only dial them part way. This allows addicts on buprenorphine to feel more normal and the withdrawal is much milder than methadone.

I understand you were just trying to help but poor advice could really do some harm if the OP didn't know any better or someone read your post and took it as fact. While it sounds like you had a good experience with methadone, please take some time to educate yourself.
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Thats not the point, I was trying to say that with methadone taper, your free and clear, you dont trade one for the other. Suboxone, will need to be fill each month to stave off wd, because lets be honest, thats all an addict wants is to find the easiest way out.

After five days for me anyways, the methadone was fine and I had/have no urge. The minute you stop.taking suboxone the wd come back in full.force, not to mention most insurance companies dont accept it and the drs that prescribe it don't either. It very expensive.

Again, my opinion, but getting off everything is much better than getting hooked on another, and while the euphoria might not be there with suboxone, its not there with the methadone either.

Thanks for the input though, im always up.for a good debate, btw rhun, this is just advice from my personal experience and success.

Good luck,

Bob
 
^ You can do a buprenorphine taper just like you can do a methadone taper. There's no reason one would be used different than the other.

The differences between these two opioids I listed above. My point is that you can't really say what you said about buprenorphine without saying the same about methadone. The withdrawal for both will be much longer in duration than other shorter acting opioid if they're not tapered, but bupe will have milder WDs because it's not a full agonist and is less likely to be abused.

Have you been on buprenorphine as well, or just methadone? Just curious.
 
Myself just methadone, but have a good friend that was on heroine for 3 year, and is still taking suboxone. She cant ho without it. If she does she has the same wds, as coming off.heroine. I do agree with you in principal, I just believe methadone is an easier road. IMO.

One.way or.antoher you're going to pay the piper.

Also.sub is a blocker, not a cure. Once the receptors are unblocked againg it still.is.looking for the opiates.
 
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bcfly7x7 said:
Also.sub is a blocker, not a cure. Once the receptors are unblocked againg it still.is.looking for the opiates.
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Methadone has a blocking effect as well, depends on the person but usually anything higher than 60mg. Buprenorphine is the same, it blocks other opioids at doses higher than 6mg.

Buprenorphine can be used to taper, same as you were tapered using methadone. In fact, buprenorphine is slowly replacing methadone in detox and treatment for tapering opiate addicts because it's generally more effective. Not to mention the countless people out there on methadone maintenance. Most methadone clinics do not taper people.

I'm just not really understanding your argument... Methadone is used exactly the same as buprenorphine, either for tapering or maintenance. But bupe is a partial agonist and has milder withdrawal and less opiate like effects, making it more suitable for treating addicts.
 
I was merely stating my experience with the methadone treatment. It went from 25mg to 5mg over 5 days. I was using for 7 years, it is correct that its an opioid also, but because of its half life is eases the wd. Now as we know, PAWS is there waiting in the wings for any person detoxing. Im of the opinion, again my own, that if you use suboxone, and you have zero wd, what will stop a person from continuing to take it? Because the addict wants no pain, whether thats emotional, mental, or physical.

If you truly want to be free, the pain is coming after detox and im just saying as methadone is harder to get now then suboxone, I believe there is lots less of a chance to become dependent on something else.

Is suboxone great at what it does, yes. I for one never thought I would stick up for methadone, but like I mentioned before, a friend with a 3 year heroine addict has been on suboxone for 3 years. Thats not a cure, its another monthly expense and new addiction.
Full antagonist or not, there are more and more people now moving to suboxone just to adviod the wd, which in reality you just have to get through the PAWS, bc either method will get you to that point but you'll never truly be free without leaving it all behind.

I hope you get it now, not meant to fight, plus it was about 1 am when I was posting last night. So I may not have been as specific as I might have liked.

Bob
 
Thanks for hijacking my thread and leaving no room for other comments/suggestions which could make the difference in my life or death situation here.
 
Get2, first im so sorry if you feel my actions jacked your thread. Im not a dr. Just a recovering addict myself. I have only by the grace of god had to go through this once.

My comments are for the sole purpose of trying to help other afflicted with the same type of problem. By no means am I an expert, but I do know what worked/s for me.

I try and pass this on to other to do with as they wish. This isnt a game, it is like you said a matter of life and death.

Whatever you choose as your method to turn your life around is yours and yours alone. Just do me one favor and choose life.

Bob

Of all things said by tongue or pen, the saddest maybe; it might have been.
 
Get2Think said:
Thanks for hijacking my thread and leaving no room for other comments/suggestions which could make the difference in my life or death situation here.
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I think it was very much on topic, as we were disagreeing on which method of treatment would be most beneficial. I would have brought it to PMs but one of us is a Greenlighter. Also haven't responded yet because all the cons mentioned for bupe also apply to methadone. But ultimately, it did keep your thread bumped to the top of the board, not the end of the world. Multiple page threads are common :)

Please do update us on where you're at with your situation.
 
Yeah sorry for being cranky I get kind of weird when I get a bunch of heroin and red wine in me. Right now I am binging with my last bit of money, once the dope is gone and the money is gone I have no choice but to try and let the habit be gone similarily. It's just impossible to mantain a habit when you have no money unless you resort to stealing or begging which I partially wish I could do but at the same time don't want to cause any trouble with the law.
 
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