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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

******WARNING****** - Potentially TOXIC aMT in the UK *********

sorry to hear about this experience! glad you guys made it out ok
200mg is quite a hefty dose by any means... just goes to show that everyone should be careful with these drugs and test out each batch before going in a full fledge dose.

on a side note, i dont think vendors should be named, as there are already other means for calling out vendors' problems.
 
Hi guys, mrcientist, Pagey's fiancé, I was also in hospital last weekend with the symptoms mentioned in the OP. The vendor has just sent me an email saying it has 50% off aMT now. DO NOT under any circumstances buy from this vendor. It seems too suspicious given the circumstances.

Please be safe.
 
Hi guys, mrcientist, Pagey's fiancé, I was also in hospital last weekend with the symptoms mentioned in the OP. The vendor has just sent me an email saying it has 50% off aMT now. DO NOT under any circumstances buy from this vendor. It seems too suspicious given the circumstances.

Please be safe.

Many thanks for the update and info, buying or consuming anything sold as aMT would seem like a seriously bad move under the circumstances .
 
This is very worrying, both my girlfriend and one of my close friends have recently purchased AMT in a 50% off sale from a very popular UK vendor... It's a vendor I've used a lot and never had a problem with, but if there's dodgy AMT going around well known vendors then I'll warn them about it... Glad people who've had issues from it so far have survived and thanks for passing on the warning!
 
Damn this is concerning but one thing I really want to emphasize to everyone in the topic, 200mg is a very crazy dose. At doses over ~100mg or so, AMT is a strong MAOI, serotonin releaser, along with being a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Taking doses of 100-200mg carries similar risks to taking something like PMA.

There was a lot of debate in the past as to whether or not AMT is an MAOI, but the answer is that yes it is, but at it's normal dose range of say 20-60mg, the MAOI action is insignificant and not going to put anyone in danger (unless the AMT is combined with other serotonergic drugs) - once you pass around 100mg though you're taking a notable risk.

200mg is most definitely a dose that can hospitalise someone or even put an end to their life :(. Please don't dose that high again, you've gotten lucky :( I know someone else who was hospitalised by a similar dose (180mg), and barely made it alive, with AMT that was most definitely just regular AMT Freebase too - no contamination or issues.

I'm really glad that you're okay Pagey :) <3 the batch could be in question too but 200mg is a dose that can most definitely kill someone, I'm not at all surprised you experienced serotonin syndrome with that huge a dose. :( The only time you're going to get away with such a dose is A) If you're lucky, or B) Dealing with low purity AMT.

Here are some sources on AMT's MAOI activity: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3747266
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1482243/

^ The second source in particular says that at around 150mg, AMT is as strong an MAOI as Harmaline (the main MAOI present in the Ayahuasca vine) - and even at doses as low as 30-40mg it's a significant releaser/reuptake inhibitor of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine. Meaning doses of 150-200mg+ could very very easily prove fatal. :/ These doses offer a similar pharmacological action to PMA. Please be careful <3 You were extremely lucky, please please please don't repeat these kind of doses when you switch up vendors, you will get the same results..

Just like with PMA, many people can take PMA and be okay, and many people will take huge doses of AMT and be okay, but it's a huge risk, and such a dose is definitely not safe. I'm just glad you guys made it through okay :) I hope this discourages people from trying such doses and being under the illusion that they're safe.. :(
 
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Good Morning Jesus (sorry inappropriate giggle) <3

I think you may have misunderstood they were not saying the purity is 50% but that some sellers are selling their stock at half price/50% off seems most that will admit a purity range suggest an alleged of aprox 96.5%.

With this highly suspected and expected upcoming ban it does make you think 'they' know it will be soon surely alleged reputable sellers would not risk losing their future custom base by selling contaminated product off cheap? Also Al-lad etc ad the the other suggested substances on the ACMD temp ban list are still being sold at usual amounts..please snip snippity snip if this is classed as vendor discussion..it is just conjecture at this point for all anyway.

Set and settings are not clear in the run up to this terrible outcome either. I read recently that some foods can seriously interact with aMT too..marmite and some cheeses for instance..that sounds crazy but crazy often has some genuine source.

This has totally put me off trying aMT and was on my list...but I think I will risk not knowing the joys of aMT as I am easily scared off.

TAKE CARE ALL <3
 
Morning!

^ Aye I edited the post afterwards, I misread and so I re-read the whole thread to be sure. My mistake.

Point still stands, 200mg of AMT is in a similar ballpark to taking a fairly high dose of PMA, and they were very lucky. I just really really hope that this thread discourages some of the people who've been taking such high doses in the past.

It happened with PMA too, a lot of the people who lost their lives to PMA had taken it several times before and deemed it safe as a result. Serotonin syndrome is not something guaranteed to happen at the same dose every time, nor is it guaranteed to be fatal. But just as someone taking 100mg of PMA is putting their life at risk, so is someone taking 200mg of AMT, and the sooner more people realise this, the better for everyone taking it.

inflorescence, good call on mentioning the foods. Just like with a full dose of Harmaline or Ayahuasca vine, when you take 150mg+ AMT (or even slightly less), just eating a little cheese or such can vastly increase your already very high chances of ending up with serotonin syndrome. At the end of the day, these doses just aren't safe.

Please stick to below 100mg with this substance people. In my experience over 50-60mg is unnecessary in the first place with good AMT freebase, AMT might not be as mind-blowing in some senses as other psychedelics, but if that's what you want, then AMT isn't the best drug for it as if you're going to have to push the dose you want to do it with something that *is* safe to push to higher doses.

Also regarding the vendor stuff, other than you guys ending up in hospital, is there anything else to actually suggest the batch was at question? Because as I've said a bunch of times, I'd be questioning your batch quality if you *didn't* end up in hospital from taking 200mg, not when you did. Not a safe dose :(

Take care people <3 Also I hope neither of my posts come off as disrespectful to you guys, I know how easy it is to make such mistakes, I've almost gotten myself killed a few times now. I'm just saying this all because it's very true and I don't want you guys repeating the dosage with a new vendor because you think the batch was at question, when regardless of whether or not the batch was dodgy such a dosage could easily get you killed D: I don't want to see the BL shrine getting any bigger, you guys are all too awesome to disappear on us! :( <3

(note: Had to make a few edits to both posts so if you read either one and noticed a mistake, it might be worth re-reading as I may have fixed it just now)
 
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perhaps it would be worth investing in a sample from said vendor and sending it off for testing?

also, JesusGreen has a valid point about the high doses involved here. Im not saying that it is the only reason, but it is worth mentioning nontheless.
 
Point still stands, 200mg of AMT is in a similar ballpark to taking a fairly high dose of PMA, and they were very lucky. I just really really hope that this thread discourages some of the people who've been taking such high doses in the past.

It happened with PMA too, a lot of the people who lost their lives to PMA had taken it several times before and deemed it safe as a result. Serotonin syndrome is not something guaranteed to happen at the same dose every time, nor is it guaranteed to be fatal. But just as someone taking 100mg of PMA is putting their life at risk, so is someone taking 200mg of AMT, and the sooner more people realise this, the better for everyone taking it.

inflorescence, good call on mentioning the foods. Just like with a full dose of Harmaline or Ayahuasca vine, when you take 150mg+ AMT (or even slightly less), just eating a little cheese or such can vastly increase your already very high chances of ending up with serotonin syndrome. At the end of the day, these doses just aren't safe.

Please stick to below 100mg with this substance people. In my experience over 50-60mg is unnecessary in the first place with good AMT freebase, AMT might not be as mind-blowing in some senses as other psychedelics, but if that's what you want, then AMT isn't the best drug for it as if you're going to have to push the dose you want to do it with something that *is* safe to push to higher doses.

Thanks for your wisdom Jesus. :)

I was unaware that aMT could have a potent MAOI effect, very useful to know.

I would definitely agree that if you are wanting to push the envelope with aMT that 40-60mg is as much as is needed... the best way to get more out of your aMT experience I find is to smoke some weed as you are peaking. It really potentiates things although of course, YMMV.

I'd just like to remind you folks to remember some of your HR practices, especially when it comes to things like RCs... I always do an allergy dose with each new batch & every time I try a new vendor, I'll do a threshold dose after that just to make sure. Keep safe all. <3
 
I'd be questioning your batch quality if you *didn't* end up in hospital from taking 200mg

Agreed.

I'm glad that you are all OK now.

Pagey: bluntly put, you will want to take care of your brain. You may have pulled through this and the 4-FA hospitalization but I have a hunch that you shouldn't take much more chances on this front.
 
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^Hey Jesusgreen,
Just a quick answer, I've got to head off to my first class of the year ( :( ) - we're aware of the dose we took and that's what we suspected at first, but having looked up aMT's LD-50 (which is a lot higher) and taking into consideration the doctors' comments (all of whom seemed pretty convince the batch was dodgy, due both to the severity and the specifics of the reaction) we've concluded it really isn't safe for anyone to take the risk from this particular vendor.

We're also bearing in mind that both mrcientist and I have pushed aMT to extremely high doses in the past, practically the same level (I am NOT encouraging this btw, just pointing out) without any kind of issues - and that's when I was on SSRIs, too.

Your point is definitely completely valid and no one should be taking such ridiculous doses of aMT anyway - but I still think there's definite reason for concern regarding the batch's toxicity :\

P.S. No worries lurching, I'm done with drugs, and I actually mean that...certainly no need for another wake-up call :(
 
Might be worth contacting the vendor directly and letting him know whats up. If indeed it is a problem, then perhaps he/she can show good faith and warn their own customers, before things get out of hand
 
Good post Jesus, I broadly agree.I have had a bit of a suspicion for a while that UK vendors stock low purity AMT, something based soley on the doses people have been doing. I dunno maybe they are just hard heads or trip all the time.

Personally I would not trust any UK vendor to sell me a psychedelic drug, at least not the vendors I have seen. Most of the EU ones seem a lot more respectable.
 
Might be worth contacting the vendor directly and letting him know whats up. If indeed it is a problem, then perhaps he/she can show good faith and warn their own customers, before things get out of hand

Mrcientist contacted them last night, we're waiting on an answer and hoping that by some miracle they pull it from the website. We'll let you know.
 
Expect a NMR of pure aMT ;)

It was likely just your crazy high dose.
 
Do you think your set and setting influenced your sensitivity? Fatal overdoses often occur in unfamiliar environments. If you usually use drugs looking through the shutter shades in your window at home your body adapts. In this situation the set and setting signals biological responses decreasing your sensitivity. If what your familiar with is gone during your experience that could cause hypersensitivity.

Conveniently this relevant story was on r/drugs today. Abnormal set and setting + low tolerance = overdose
mikenney said:
Surviving a heroin overdose

i'm 22 years old, i started using heroin when i was 17 and have been clean September 9th 2013. which was the day i overdosed. i live in Bartlett Illinois which is a suburb of Chicago. i have horrible grammar skills and have never posted on Reddit before so bare with me.

okay so i woke up that Sunday morning in September to find out that my parents were at the Chicago bears game and wouldn't be home all day, now they know of my heroin addiction and at that point in my life i had very little freedom. i wasn't allowed to drive or even have money in my possession. I have been to 2 different impatient rehabs and countless other out patient rehabs with the intent of getting clean. So them going to the bears game and leaving me home alone was a huge deal. Being the addict that i am as soon as i had a tiny bit of freedom i took advantage decided i should go buy some heroin. So i stole 25$ out of my parents room and my brothers 2012 Hyundai Veloster and headed to 290 east. Otherwise known as heroin highway.

Now at this point in my life i wasn't using heroin every day i believe i was a solid 2 or 3 weeks clean at the time so i had no tolerance built up. I put 5 dollars in my brothers gas tank and was gonna spend the other 20 on 2 bags of dope. When i arrived to the spot off Pulaski i spotted the man i was looking for and like a drive through i just pulled up, gave him a 20 and he gave me the drugs, very nonchalant. Like any heroin addict will tell you once you have your dope, you don't wait to get home to use. No, you'll pull over to the side of the road and do it right then and there. which is what i did. I used needles when i used, so i pulled out my kit that i kept in a little zip lock bag, full of a spoon, needles, cotton swabs and a lighter. Now being some what conscious of the fact that i had no tolerance i decided to only do 3/4 of the bag for the first shot. I poured what i thought was 3/4 onto the spoon mixed it with some water and added a little bit of heat until there was no more powder and it was an all a gold looking liquid. I dropped in the little cotton swab and sucked everything i could into the syringe. i had the needle ready to go and now i just needed to find the vein. i usually could hit a vein in 2 or 3 tries with out tying off. But since i hadn't used in a couple weeks it wasn't able to hit the vein. So i took my seat belt and wrapped it around my bicep and my veins started bulging out of my arm. I found the vein and hit it first try. i pushed down on the lever and immediately felt the wild rush of heroin going all through out my body. i remember removing the seat belt from my bicep and starting to prepare for my next shot. and then just black... you know when people have near death experiences they say the see colors or have some what of a psychedelic experience. all i saw was black .

I started to coming to life in the ambulance not knowing what on earth was going on. they told me i had just over dosed on heroin and that they had gave me narcan, which is what they give people who over dose on opiates. Whats crazy is that apparently 3 thugs walking through the west side of Chicago some how saw some white kid in a nice new car slummed over in the driver seat with my car running and needles and heroin every where. And decided to call the ambulance, they did steal my phone and my wallet which had nothing in it lol, but that's besides the point. if they would have not called the ambulance i would have been dead for sure. Its crazy how things worked out but i guess it was just not my time to go. thanks for reading this, sorry if it was boring or something i kinda just wrote this for myself just to express it because i don't really talk about often. so thanks again for reading

Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/2h1xql/surviving_a_heroin_overdose/

Several years ago on 25i-NBOMe I overdosed during the beginning of fall. How odd you all, this guy ^, and myself all overdosed during the beginning of fall.
 
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but having looked up aMT's LD-50 (which is a lot higher)

Just remember the LD50 is for rats/mice, who have a much better metabolism than ours and so can stand a much higher dose per body weight than we can, and that the LD50 is when 50% of the rats/mice die, the lowest dose that has a good chance (say 10%) of killing someone is usually much lower, often as much as 10x lower.

To put it into perspective:
LD50 for MDMA in rodents: 100-300mg/kg which would be 6.5-19.5 grams in a 65kg adult if the dose translated to humans, it doesn't though, and human LD50 for MDMA is thought to be closer to 30mg/kg, so 1.95g in a 65kg adult - plus remember that's the dose when 50% of people will die, would you really be happy with a 20% risk of dying, or even a 5% for that matter? Because if not then the safe dose decreases dramatically, and that 1.95g for MDMA will become more like 400mg for an individual with no tolerance.


Now look at AMT:

LD50 for AMT in rodents: 20-30mg/kg.. That'd translate to closer to 3-4mg/kg in humans (so 195-260mg), and that's when 50% of individuals would be expected to die, nevermind just 10% or 5%.. 200mg is a dose that *should* put you in hospital and that's not something I have any doubt over. I think even 100mg of pure AMT is overkill and getting into riskier territory, and I've seen people manifesting with symptoms akin to serotonin syndrome from around 110mg before - along with the incident with 180mg that nearly killed one of my old school friends.

I can say without a doubt that getting away alive after taking 200mg of AMT freebase is something you should feel very lucky about.

To put it in perspective, at 40-50mg AMT is just as strong a serotonin releaser/reuptake inhibitor as something like MDMA, and at 150mg it's as strong an MAOI as Harmaline. Harmaline at a single dose has killed people just in combination with stuff like cheese and other tyramine containing foods, combined with a serotonin releaser or reuptake inhibitor of any kind will definitely hospitalise or kill someone. Taking 200mg AMT would be like taking just 1 and 1/3 doses of Harmaline along with 3-4 doses of MDMA, that's definitely something you'd need quite the miracle to survive.

You said you've taken similarly high doses in the past, people have taken 150mg of PMA too, or taken 5mg of 25I-NBOMe, and survived before. You've been extremely lucky that you survived this time, and that you didn't end up in hospital previous times, and I wouldn't push that luck again :( Most people who take PMA will survive even if they experience serotonin syndrome, but that doesn't make PMA any safer to take, same goes for AMT at these doses - most people just means the majority, and doesn't rule out 5, 10, or even 25% of the people who take it dying.

I know there are some batches of AMT out there that are weaker and where 40-50mg isn't a solid trip like it is with the higher quality stuff around, but one should always assume they have normal strength AMT, or someone's going to get hurt.

Again like I said before I hope this doesn't come off as disrespectful at all, but your experience is absolutely what I'd expect in 50% of people taking 200mg. There is nothing unusual about being hospitalised from 200mg, and I really really hope no-one tries those kind of dosages any more, because it's not the first time I've heard of people exploring those kind of dosages.

I think the best move right now would be to send off a sample of the AMT to Wedinos for testing. I'd honestly be surprised if the results came back as anything but pure AMT though, since as I've said your reaction was what you should expect at that dosage - it's your past experiences where you've had no such reaction that I'd honestly be more questioning of, and it wouldn't surprise me if you received much less pure AMT in the past if you were able to push the dose range so high without any issues.

Regardless it makes sense to send it off for testing, because if something is up with the batch people should know whether or not that had anything to do with the reaction experienced - and if nothing is wrong with the batch then it'd be good to find that out so it can serve as further evidence to remind people that such doses *will* get people killed.

Hope you guys are doing well and have recovered fully since, I know it must be horribly traumatising having to go through that. I've been close to the edge before with a couple of drug experiences and it's probably the most terrifying thing one can experience.
 
Really sorry to hear what you guys have been through and very glad you're okay <3

..but I think Jesus is talking real sense here (and should be commended for his HR stance and knowledge.)
 
Probably worth asking whether you combined it with any other drugs or ate food like cheese or cured meats which could have interacted with the maoi effects.

Glad you are all OK by the way.
 
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