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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

METH - Harm Reduction questions

Akarr

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
2
Location
Texas
I am having issues finding the proper place to post this on my phone and do apologize. Hopefully it belongs somewhere.


I was wanting to find out some specific information regarding harm reduction for a certain type of individual. Exact details will be given regarding weather, environment, work, eating and drinking habits, other drug use, sleep patterns, vitamins and supplements, and anything deemed relevant. If something isn't listed that someone needs to know, just ask. I do understand that this isn't a site ran by doctors or medically qualified people to answer the questions with 100% accuracy and always take anything said on the Internet with a grain of salt. Just figured maybe other people have some insight or opinions that could be potentially useful in leading as safe and healthy lifestyle as possible.
Please state if you read the entire thing when you list a response if possible to make sure all aspects were taken into consideration. I do apologize for the lengthiness of the post but I am trying to find out information that might be more specific instead of having my acquaintance try all kinds of different things to figure out what is good and bad for him. I have done a ton of reading here and on another site similar that starts with www dot drug dash (wasn't sure if listing full site was against rules but I'd assume anyone that takes the time to give a response is familiar with the other site I mentioned). Hopefully the formatting looks ok on desktop and mobile.




Age/Location/Sex

The person this thread pertains to is a male between the ages of 20-24. They are located in the Southern US and specifically work/live between the cities of Houston, TX and Galveston,TX. Just to give an idea of the weather, for those not familiar, it is quite hot and humid during the summer. An average day ranges from a high of 90-105 real feel temperature once you factor in a humidity rate between 40-80% with the average running probably around 60ish % humidity.


Vitamins/Supplements/Prescriptions
-Prescriptions
-- Escitalopram 20mg once in morning (generic for Lexapro, an SSRI)
--- dose actually taken is 10mg because 20mg led to serotonin syndrome
-- Ranitidine 300mg once in morning (generic for Zantac, acid reducer)
-- Clonazepam 1mg tablets (generic for Klonopin, as needed - 15 total per month)


-Vitamins/Supplements (all taken in morning with prescriptions)
-- NatureMade MULTI Complete, 1 a day
-- Swanson Condition Specific Brain Essentials, 1 a day
-- SpringValley Fish Oil 1290mg/900mg Omega3 per serving, 2 per day (serving size is 2 a day in mini soft gels)
-- NatureMade Magnesium 250mg, 1 per day (as magnesium oxide tablet)
-- NatureMade Potassium Gluconate 595mg, 1 per day (99mg of potassium from the 595 of potassium gluconate)
-- SpringValley Calcium 600mg, 1 per day




Current Health/Relevant Past Health Issues
Past issues/Current health


-- He rarely gets sick but when he does it's usually worse than most people that get sick frequently. He's never had a broken bone or surgery.
-- At round 16, he developed an allergy to marijuana that causes him to have extreme panic attacks. During these attacks he is disoriented, dizzy, vomiting, and has diarrhea (sorry for specifics here). Anytime he smokes or uses it himself this happens but he can be around it as long as there is adequate ventilation. Prior to developing an actual allergy to marijuana, he used to smoke a lot everyday from the ages of 11 to 15ish. He stopped to take a specific drug test in high school and during that time used cocaine instead. The allergy developed after he passed the drug test, almost a year later, and tried smoking again. He still is unable to smoke more than a hit or two at most and rarely does that unless he's going straight to bed. After that first panic attack he had never ending attacks for a few months and didn't leave his house. Slowly he started trying to overcome it and once he turned 18 doctors started prescribing him different medications. During all this trial and error he went through numerous tests including the following: stress test, EKGs (showed mild arrhythmia but no concern), inner ear balance tests, X-rays of brain and lungs, cat-scans of the brain and head, tests for stomach acid issue that resulted in diagnosis of GERDS, as well as a couple similar tests that he stated he forgot. Nothing was found except that he had labial hypertension and generalized anxiety disorder. These attacks are now almost nonexistent. Occasionally he has very mild ones as compared to before that cause extremity numbness mostly and perceived difficulty breathing. After the first attack around age 16, he instantly gave up all illegal drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes. He didn't start smoking cigarettes again until around age 19-20 and didn't start drinking again until roughly the same age maybe a little later.
-- As mentioned above, he started experimenting with cocaine around 15ish and that only lasted roughly a year. Use eventually reached almost everyday use at this time with upper limit of daily amounts totally 1.6g and lower limits being around 0.5 to 0.8. The next time he touched cocaine again he was an adult and responsible for whatever happened. He started slowly and not very frequently and over the course of 6 months eventually reached a max of 3.2g over the course of a week. He no longer does this drug as it induced mild serotonin syndrome and increased anxiety that he was unable to deal with due to it acting more on the serotonin receptors in the brain instead of the dopamine receptors like methamphetamine does.
-- He went to the hospital in the past month once after work for abdominal pain. They did blood work, piss sample, and a cat-scan of his abdomen from the bottom of the lungs to the pelvis and found no issues in any of them. The hospital staff was notified by him that he used methamphetamine.
-- He weighs between 130-140 lbs with current health issues being generalized anxiety (mostly under control), labial hypertension, and occasional acid reflux even with max dose of Zantac taken each day.




Drug use/ROA/Frequency/Quantity


Drug of choice is crystal methamphetamine and it's done through an ROA of nasal insufflation. Average daily amount used is approximately 160-180mg per day with average amount per dose between 30-40mg depending on 3-5 doses per day. This drug has been used since February 2014 and has maxed out at those amounts due to harm reduction and physical/mental/psychological signs and thoughts encouraging stopping somewhere around that much. Usually this is done anywhere from 4-6 days per week and has been going like that for probably close to 1 month now.




Work (including eating/drinking/sleeping habits during work week)


For work he cleans and repairs community/commercial pools 5 days a week between approximately 40-45 hours a week. He lifts a max weight of 120lbs at a time. Since he does manual labor in the hot weather here, he makes sure to drink at least 2 Gatorades a day and between 3-6 Gatorade bottles refilled with water depending on how he feels and how much he sweats. He usually drinks a Mango Naked pure fruit juice everyday (it's a specific brand, sometimes it's a different type of the same brand) to get a good intake of fruits and vegetables each day as well as to help with constipation. He tries to eat some kind of breakfast everyday which usually consists of some inexpensive fast food or yogurt. He doesn't always eat both lunch and dinner and instead usually eats something near the end of the work day or after work. This is where he tries to get a more balance and healthy meal of chicken or some kind of meat (still fast food though). He showers every day after work or before bed and makes sure to brush his teeth in the mornings to take care of teeth and skin. Most of the time he sleeps around 6 hours a night during the work week. Sometimes he doesn't sleep and used to stay up for around 3 days but has been more responsible to not stay up more than one night without sleep.




Weekend (including differences from work day habits)


The weekend isn't much different from the work week except that he doesn't have to be exposed to the harsh temperatures like he does during the week. He also makes sure to stop using on Saturday night and not use on Sunday to ensure a good night’s sleep before the work week. On Friday and Saturday he sleeps quite a bit, or overall around 10-12 hours each night he said. He also eats 3 times a day on Saturday and Sunday with no fast food most of the time and still makes sure to take care of hydration.



Other Remarks


I can't think of anything else that is important here but I'm sure I probably missed a few details because I tried to remember everything he's informed me of over our time knowing each other. Again, I do apologize for the lengthiness of this post and not knowing where to post it. Just trying to find out useful information for him if at all possible. The things he was concerned about was having a blood pressure regular around 140-150/85-99 while using. The past week it's went down to 135ish/85ish with better sleep and eating patterns. He was also concerned with occasionally getting headaches and feeling somewhat dizzy sometimes. And lastly the thing he informed me that worried him the most was noticing that his heart tends to stay around 70-80 bpm after doses in the late afternoon when he's finished working or at home. Compared to 105-120 bpm all other times.
 
1. We know it's you.
2. That doesn't sound like an allergy to marijuana, it sounds like a typical reaction some people have to marijuana, especially after trying "harder" drugs, especially with an existing anxiety disorder.
3. 20 mg escitalopram led to serotonin syndrome by itself? That's not a high dose and seems quite unusual. Did a doctor identify it or are you self-diagnosing SS?
4. If you're taking meth every day have you thought about getting a script for ADHD drugs? Less risk legally and health-wise, probably cheaper.
 
Yeah, here at BL you just say it's you. Due to the detail, you're obviously talking about yourself and "someone I know" offers no legal protection and is just annoying to read.

Methamphetamine is just poison to your body. No matter how healthy you try and be, it's just toxic to your system and will continue to damage you from the inside out.

It's also going to worsen your anxiety x 10. Two years off using meth off and on resulted in severe anxiety and insomnia for me that persist to this day, almost 5 years later.

I'm also concerned by the level of obsession it's causing you, as evidenced by your daily routine and your post in general. Someone already suffering from anxiety and depression is going to be strongly affected by a drug that makes even the strongest people lose grip of reality.

On top of physical deterioration, your mental state is going to get more and more fragile. Even after stopping use completely, there will be long term side effects. And again, all the healthy habits in the world will only slow down the inevitable by a small percent.

Sorry, but meth is one drug I can't offer harm reduction advise on. It's too damaging.

PS. Fast food has zero nutritional value.
 
2. That doesn't sound like an allergy to marijuana, it sounds like a typical reaction some people have to marijuana, especially after trying "harder" drugs, especially with an existing anxiety disorder.

There wasn't an existing anxiety disorder at the time and no signs or symptoms either. The reason id say it was an allergy that developed is because 8 out of 10 family members experienced the same thing but no where near as bad. They still have similar issues when smoking but do it anyways.


3. 20 mg escitalopram led to serotonin syndrome by itself? That's not a high dose and seems quite unusual. Did a doctor identify it or are you self-diagnosing SS?

Self diagnosis after thorough research about what SS is and a few experiments with lowering dosage as well as not taking at all. It wasn't just the escitalopram, it was when combined with meth, at the time, small to normal amounts of methamphetamine. (Exact amounts unknown but way less than currently)


4. If you're taking meth every day have you thought about getting a script for ADHD drugs? Less risk legally and health-wise, probably cheaper.

That's something that's been bounces around quite a bit. I personally find that I feel better when I only take 10mg of escitalopram daily and use. Only time this isn't true is if I do obscene amounts or ignore basic necessities like food, water, showers, sleeping each night, etc. (which is rarely). Just not sure how to go about bringing that up to a doctor, especially since I don't currently have insurance where I'm at or a doctor. Still got state insurance from another state and that doctor would've probably tried it out to see if I benefited from it because he's the one that got me on what I take now, which is the most stable and longest lasting time of generally low anxiety ever.


Yeah, here at BL you just say it's you. Due to the detail, you're obviously talking about yourself and "someone I know" offers no legal protection and is just annoying to read.

Methamphetamine is just poison to your body. No matter how healthy you try and be, it's just toxic to your system and will continue to damage you from the inside out.

It's also going to worsen your anxiety x 10. Two years off using meth off and on resulted in severe anxiety and insomnia for me that persist to this day, almost 5 years later.

I'm also concerned by the level of obsession it's causing you, as evidenced by your daily routine and your post in general. Someone already suffering from anxiety and depression is going to be strongly affected by a drug that makes even the strongest people lose grip of reality.

On top of physical deterioration, your mental state is going to get more and more fragile. Even after stopping use completely, there will be long term side effects. And again, all the healthy habits in the world will only slow down the inevitable by a small percent.

Sorry, but meth is one drug I can't offer harm reduction advise on. It's too damaging.

PS. Fast food has zero nutritional value.

I understand your stance on not wanting to offer harm reduction for such drug and I appreciate the honestly. Personally, as long as I limit myself to certain amounts and mostly just remember to eat/drink my anxiety is much lower with the combination of methamphetamine and Escitalopram. That's even with only taking half the dose of escitalopram. Before I started doing meth on a routine basis, my anxiety was pretty well under control but not as well as when the two are combined. I used to be prescribed like 60 klonopin a month to take as needed for higher than normal anxiety. I took most of them each month. Now I only get 15 a month for a few months and I have leftovers each month or spares to help friends/family sometimes if they are having anxiety or sleeping issues. I also don't have the constant feeling as though I can't catch my breathe like I did before I started combining the two. Only time I get that feeling now is when my BP gets higher than it's normal 140/90. (It's usually this month with or without drug use. Sometimes it gets higher but not usually.

As far as the level of obsession, I been using way more than normal but that was mostly due to not having to shell out the cash myself. Friend was doing it. Sometimes I don't have it, yet the world goes on. Obviously I think about it when I don't have it (still think about smoking weed everyday or doing cocaine even though I don't really want to do them) but not to the point that I don't pay my bills etc first. If there's money left there is, if not there isn't.

I actually don't feel depressed at all either. Whether on or off. I went through extremely bad depression when I first started getting panic attacks but since those finally got MOSTLY resolved, I've had a positive outlook and been working towards establishing my own life. With all that said, I'm not blind. I would say and have said to a few friends that for this last couple weeks/month we've all show signs of serious addiction.



Anyways, thanks for tanking the time to respond. Hopefully my responses don't come off wrong (get that a lot), just stating how I feel about it and what actual positive affects it's had on my life/ health. I expected my blood work I received in the hospital and urine test to show that I had major imbalances or health concerns but they were spot on for everything.
 
This is not about harm reduction it's about someone trying to convince themselves that a poison will cure their ills. With meth we all went through that phase and it never gets any better with further use no matter what.
 
If it's really helping you and you have a legitimate reason to be on stimulants, you need to consult a doctor. If you can pay for meth then you can pay for a doctor's visit if your insurance doesn't cover it. You might think you're feeling okay right now, but methamphetamine has no medical value. And you're not a doctor, self medicating with illicit drugs won't end well in the long run. On top of the physical damage from all the corrosive, nasty chemicals used to make this drug the risk of addiction is just too high. You should always be aware whether the risk is worth the reward when using, and in this case it's not.

The problem with meth is it messes with your head. This is the case for many addictive drugs, but I've seen it in meth users and addicts to an even greater extent. I'm sure you have all these great reasons you've come up with as to why using meth is a good idea but they're honestly just excuses. It's impossible to keep a healthy perspective while using this substance and I can see that you're not able to see the situation clearly.

I'm not trying to make you feel defensive here, I'm just being direct. Again, I need to really emphasize that you will not be able to control your use and long term it will make your anxiety worse, not better. I'm positive there's some denial going on and you're not seeing clearly.

I had bipolar and PTSD symptoms that still linger to this day from meth use. I would use it and after the euphoria wore off feel horrible and be unable to sleep or eat and swear never to do it again. 2 weeks later, I would completely forget I had a bad time and I had intense cravings. And I was not a daily user by any means.

No matter what ROA I used, it damaged my body. Smoking it stripped the enamel off my teeth and I had a chunk of my tooth come off for no reason. I still have a hole in my nose from snorting it. When I used it intravenously, it would collapse my vein with one shit. Even taking it orally damaged my stomach.

No one is going to tell you that this is anything other than a bad idea. You're playing with fire.
 
what can I say

It's very hard for me to put this into words, I spent at least 20 years as a full on dope smoker, I had a weekness to opium but kicked it. Also smack.
I'm on my way back to Australia tomorrow, as for the last 2 to 3 years my daughter has been into Ice.

I haven't had a proper conversation with her for a long time, actually I don't remember, because she rarely pics up the phone, and when she does she's either super hi, depressed or can't speak because shes at a 'friends' who she never mentions the names of.
She's been homeless for 2 years, she sleeps on peoples couches, she seems to think her problem is that she doesn't have her own place, she does'nt want to admit she needs help and escapes within half an hour of seeing me.

She has warrants out for her arrest and has been spotted on street corners talking like a zombi with bags around her.
I'm looking at this site to try to understand how I could speak and be with her in a way that can help her see the light. I often wonder, Terrance Mckenner who discoverd lsd, said, from every trip always go into it in the search to bring something back in value to this life, can you do that with Meth?


 
It's very hard for me to put this into words, I spent at least 20 years as a full on dope smoker, I had a weekness to opium but kicked it. Also smack.
I'm on my way back to Australia tomorrow, as for the last 2 to 3 years my daughter has been into Ice.

I haven't had a proper conversation with her for a long time, actually I don't remember, because she rarely pics up the phone, and when she does she's either super hi, depressed or can't speak because shes at a 'friends' who she never mentions the names of.
She's been homeless for 2 years, she sleeps on peoples couches, she seems to think her problem is that she doesn't have her own place, she does'nt want to admit she needs help and escapes within half an hour of seeing me.

She has warrants out for her arrest and has been spotted on street corners talking like a zombi with bags around her.
I'm looking at this site to try to understand how I could speak and be with her in a way that can help her see the light. I often wonder, Terrance Mckenner who discoverd lsd, said, from every trip always go into it in the search to bring something back in value to this life, can you do that with Meth?



Hey, sounds like a tough situation, sorry to hear that. I've been on both sides as not only an addict myself but as a daughter of an addict. I would make your own thread in the recovery section of this site so you can get some support and feedback. The Dark Side or Sober Living would be a good place :)
 
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