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The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

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Do you have a point to make, or are you just here to sulk?

Edit - it's funny how solipsistic you guys can be when it comes to analysis of America.
What basis do you have for assuming "an Australian who got off the plane 24 hours ago" wrote the article in question?

Fwiw I found the opinion piece on the Australian ABC website because they're generally a far more reputable source of news than any of the major US based media players.
I know Americans who stayed in their homes in Washington DC on 11 sept 2001, keeping informed on the situation outside through the Australian Broadcasting Commission website for updates and accurate reporting because the American media networks were reporting conflicting, contradictory information - whereas the ABC (who have a number of correspondents in New York, Washington and around the world) were painting a much clearer image of what appeared to be happening.

I can see why you'd be under the impression that "news from overseas" is not as credible, however - the American press seldom reports on anything outside of the United States - and what is reported is generally woeful or a 5 second soundbyte.

It's deliberate; whereas most other countries' press keep their citizens informed on world events, Americans are deliberately kept in the dark; a well informed public is not a warlike public.
 
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But I'm still going to say, for a story such as this, I'd much rather get information from someone who has lived in Ferguson their entire life than an Australian who just got off of a plane 24 hours ago.

It has it's pluses and minuses. On the one hand, a journalist from Ferguson has the ability to offer personal commentary about their experiences growing up there. On the other, this person may have developed an intense personal bias along the way. This negates the objectivity necessary for good journalism.

Like I said, this is good for commentary, it doesn't affect journalistic integrity nearly as much. This depends more on the journalist, not his/her background.
 
As this was an opinion piece, with points based largely on statistics, recent instances of police brutality across the US and the existence of neighbourhoods defined by both class and race (which do not exist in Australia - communities are defined by socioeconomics, not ethnicity - whereas neighbourhoods in the USA are often ethnically and economically divided).

The response from posting an article from outside the States was predictable, as nutty and acri or whatever your name is both missed the point - and went straight into the negative smart arse routine.

The potential insights to be gleaned from an Australian perspective are interesting, for those open to critical analysis.
Both America and Australia have a lot in common, historically and culturally - but we don't have ghettos of ethnic poverty. Poor neighbourhoods, sure - but not racially segregated.
We have violent cops, a disproportionate amount of black people both in custody and dying at the hands of police.

The class system and huge disparities of wealth, racial inequality and police brutality happens in both countries - but the nature of the social problems - and how they manifest - is in some ways very different.
Thus; the point of view allows a different understanding for both Australian readers and American.
I know there are Americans on bluelight wise and open minded enough to get something from the opinion piece. It isn't a straight 'news report',' nor did I present it as such.
The two people that responded to it directly - it wasn't aimed at you, wasn't posted for your benefit, or intended to influence your opinion.

I'm glad you chimed in though, because any insinuation that some of the issue in the United States at the moment is the complacent apathy of those not affected by the events in Ferguson are contributing to the problems seem to be apparent to those of us who look on in horror.
Is this the direction the western world is taking? The United States has led the way for a long time now - are we all going to slide into the police state pit together?

More than just passive ignorance, a ghoulish lack of concern for targets of police violence - or, as the article I posted mentioned - vigilante murders - is pretty disturbing to me. I might not live in the US, but many people I care about do.

But that is beside the point in this instance - the fact that people on a drug HR forum could (in seriousness or idiotic trolling - who knows/cares?) be so fervently pro-police in the instance of another slaying of an unarmed black man in the street - really?
That's pretty interesting to me - that your society is so fucked that people will vocally support the kind of government-sanctioned use of lethal force...yet there is a great amount of defensive sentiment when there is any hint of any non-American criticising your country.
Interesting, disturbing, fucked up - but true to form.
Like Australia, the USA is a fucking hypocritical joke of a nation, populated by a lot of people who are getting the sort of police state large portions of the population seem to be begging for - because they're too fucking scared of their fellow countrymen because of their skin colour or background.

Watching this empire crumble is like watching an American botched execution; utterly sickening, but its hard to look away.
 
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you guys dont seem to realize that Im not going to care what you have to say. I dont need a bunch of people on the internet to tell me how black people operate and why I should/shouldnt feel bad for them. You think you know what youre defending, but you have no fucking idea.
 
because you'll talk to anyone who gives you the time of day and my time just ran out

you would be a good troll if I didn't already have an opinion on this. And im supposed to just do a 180 because some kid got shot in a nation of 300+ million?

get the fuck out of here
 
because you'll talk to anyone who gives you the time of day and my time just ran out

Yet here you are still talking.

I've got a newsflash for you: no-one really gives a shit about your opinion either. So why are you still here? You don't care, we don't care - you may as well go back to the lounge and continue with you mindless drivel over there :)
 
because you'll talk to anyone who gives you the time of day and my time just ran out

you would be a good troll if I didn't already have an opinion on this. And im supposed to just do a 180 because some kid got shot in a nation of 300+ million?

get the fuck out of here

Er...I don't think you even understand what you're blathering about.
I'd make a good troll?
Sorry, some people actually like, believe in shit, y'know.
 
My white brother loved black people more than I did when we were growing up. As a black interracial child of the south – one who lived in a homogenous white town – I struggled with my own blackness. I struggled even more with loving that blackness. But my brother, Mitch, didn’t. He loved me unapologetically. He loved me loudly.

He also loved screwing with other people’s expectations. Whenever we met new people or I joined a social situation he was in, Mitch would make sure I was standing right next to him for introductions and say, “This is Zach, my brother” – and then go silent with a smirk.

These new acquaintances would then scan back and forth with such intensity – black, white, white, black – that our faces became a kind of tennis court, with strangers waiting for someone to fault. Eventually someone would awkwardly laugh and say something like: “Oh, adopted brother,” immediately looking relieved to have figured it out. My brother would deny that and push the line further, “No, like, my brother. We have the same mom. We are blood.”

That would lead to someone questioning me intensely, and, each time, my white brother would stand next to me, proud: prouder than me of my own skin. And over the years, as he continued playing this game, I became prouder ... with his help.

And then, years later and far away in Chicago, I got the phone call: my brother, now a cop, had shot an unarmed black man back in Tennessee.

Hearing about black men dying is never exactly a surprise. Every day, you see the news stories: On the news, black men die while getting Skittles. On the news, black men die in choke-holds. On the news, black men die for playing their music too loud. It seems black men die on the news more than they do almost anything else on the news, even with a black president in office. Every 28 hours, a black man is killed by a police officer in America.

I just never imagined that the police officer in that scenario would ever be my brother. Mitch was supposed to be different than all the rest. He was supposed to be different because of me.

The first thing I did after I got the phone call was Google my brother’s name. I saw a mix of headlines; some outlets were more sympathetic toward the unarmed 22-year-old victim, while other coverage was more favorable to my brother, the cop who “accidentally” killed someone. Articles kept using that word – “accidental” – over and over, and it felt like aloe on a burn.

Watching the first press conference later that day, the police spokesman talked about how my brother was just doing his job, that he followed protocol and that this was just a tragic accident for everyone involved. After the press conference, one of the local news stations in Nashville aired a more in-depth look at the case and reported that the victim had a family member who had been shot by someone on the same police force years earlier – also, apparently, “by accident”.

Accident seemed like an odd word to me for this situation. When I hear the word “accident”, I usually think about spilled milk or the dog urinating on the carpet or even bumper scratch. Accidents were things that you respond to with, “Whoops, sorry!” But with this accident, I wondered: to whom could we even say “sorry” now that a man lay dead?

While I watched, I kept thinking about why these accidents always seemed to happen to black people. And why they were called accidents, when it seemed so clearly to be much more than an accident – when it seemed to be a flaw in a system that called things accidents.

I stared at my computer after my screen went black and prayed that it was an accident. Because calling it that didn’t make me feel I had to choose my race over my blood – the strangers who asked me questions over the brother who wanted them to.

I went home to Tennessee a few years later, after the media coverage of the case had calmed down, and sat in one of the chairs in my mother’s living room and let the argument happen. My mother, with her smooth milk skin, stared at me with eyes that would not unlock from my own.

“Do you actually think he shot him because he was black?” she asked, tearing up.

“Yes, I do. I really do.”

“But how can you say that? Honestly, he is blacker than you!”

I winced at her backwards compliment, the racism veiled as praise, the description I’d heard since I could write my name.

“Mom, that is simply not true. He is white. This will never change, no matter what he does. Never. And because I am black, I know that if that man would have been white he would be alive today.”

My mom finally unlocked eyes with me and stared down at her glass. I could see that she wanted to agree with me, but couldn’t this time, because it was an indictment of her other son. She had probably never imagined having to argue with her black son about her white son shooting and killing an unarmed black man while on duty.

But that’s also when I began to see just how much racism isn’t really about a single act or a single person, but rather a much larger system . A system that calls the recurring death of black male bodies “accidents”.

No matter how my mom had raised us, no matter how much my brother loved my blackness and was so proud of me for who I was, it still didn’t stop another black man from losing his life.

My white brother isn’t a racist – and he didn’t intentionally kill that man because he was black – but that’s not the point. In his case – in Ferguson and in so many other cases – we see the deaths of unarmed black men as “accidents”. And until the day we all recognize them as casualties of something much bigger, we will continue to see black men dead on the news.

We will continue to see brothers killing brothers.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/25/white-brother-police-shot-black-man
 
CEP rules aren't lounge rules. Say something with substance or some sort of logical backing, or gtfo. Useless rants and trolling are not really appreciated by people who do actually enjoy discussing things here.

Personally, it would be interesting to hear what a good cross section of journalists from Ferguson would say, but I would know what they are saying is about as biased as one can be, and that their opinion will be heavily influenced by their race, sex, employer, local friends, etc...

Therefore, the more objective opinion of an outsider provides a good framework in which the varied local (and other outside) opinions can be ordered and analyzed getting closer to the truth. A framework can be made from any of these people (simply using any one of them as a point of reference), but the more objective(outsider) and informed(local) an opinion is, the better a point of reference it makes. I am by nature a skeptic, so I don't really trust many things more than 50%.

I really don't care that much about this single case, but I do care about the massive amounts of racism and segregation going on in the US. I also care about the paramilitarization of the police. These two definitely come together in this issue, and will again in the future. What do you think is going to happen with the millions out west who are in the perhaps not terribly distant future going to be displaced through lack of water? The order from high for the police to start gearing up is what allowed what is happening to happen. The individual police departments seeming to be like children with new toys is an apt description, because without being enabled they would never be where they are. In the direction the US is moving order for some will cost the rights of others. This notion should be fought, and that is what these protests are about. There are better ways including distributing wealth more fairly, and providing for more sustainability.
 
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Black cop kills unarmed white male... no media outcry

Black cop kills unarmed white male... no media outcry

On the surface, the cases appear nearly identical: Michael Brown and Dillon Taylor, two young, unarmed men with sketchy criminal pasts shot to death by police officers two days apart.

But while the world knows of the highly publicized situation involving 18-year-old Mr. Brown, whose Aug. 9 death in Ferguson, Missouri touched off violence, protests and an angry national debate, most people outside Utah have never heard of 20-year-old Mr. Taylor.

Critics say there’s a reason for the discrepancy in media coverage: race. Mr. Brown was black and the officer who shot him was white. Mr. Taylor wasn’t black — he’s been described as white and Hispanic — and the officer who shot him Aug. 11 outside a 7-Eleven in South Salt Lake wasn’t white.

The perceived double standard is fueling resentment and talk of double standards on conservative talk radio and social media, where the website Twitchy has compiled a list of Twitter comments asking why Mr. Brown’s death has been front-page news for weeks while Mr. Taylor’s was a footnote at best.

...

Critics of the disparity in coverage and outrage said that it is actually the Brown case that is the outlier: Statistics indicate that black-on-black crime is far more common than the case of a white-on-black crime. For homicide, for instance, the FBI in 2012 found that of the 2,648 black murder victims, some 2,412 were killed by fellow blacks and only 193 by whites. (Whites also were likely far more likely to be killed by fellow whites than by members of other races, according to the data.)

Talk-show host Rush Limbaugh blamed the discrepancy between the two cases on “the liberal world view” that portrays whites as oppressors and blacks as victims.

...

Another difference between Missouri and Utah was that Mr. Taylor’s death didn’t result in riots. There were peaceful protests a week ago outside the Salt Lake City police headquarters covered by local media, but no outbreaks of violence as happened nightly on the streets of Ferguson.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/25/critics-see-racial-double-standard-in-coverage-of-/
 
Black cop kills unarmed white male... no media outcry

Erm, then what do you call this article?

Cops of all races kill citizens of all races every day. A sensational story is rare, and it's not contentable that police violence is disproportionately perpetrated against blacks. What do you want?

Fwiw, we should be focusing here on the shoot first, ask questions later approach by the modern paramilitary forces that we call local police, regardless of race. Race is certainly a factor in many ways, and needs to be addressed, but this militarization of even local small town police departments is also a major area of concern.
 
Mississippi man beaten after he's warned restaurant wasn't safe for whites, witness says

By The Associated Press August 25th

WEST POINT, Miss. -- West Point police said a man received life-threatening injuries in what they are investigating as an aggravated assault at a restaurant.

Ralph Weems IV, who was injured early Saturday, was in fair condition Sunday at North Mississippi Medical Center, hospital spokeswoman Genie Causey said without elaborating.




A relative, Bradley Barnes of Madison, told The Associated Press by telephone on Sunday that his brother-in-law was in a medically induced coma following brain surgery. "They're going to try and wake him up tomorrow and see what damage was done," Barnes said, describing Weems as a 32-year-old former Marine who had served in Iraq.

David Knighten of West Point told AP earlier by phone that he and Weems had gone to a Waffle House early Saturday. He said a man waved him over outside the restaurant and told him politely that people were upset by the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and it wasn't a safe place for whites. When he went in, he said, Weems was inside and was arguing with other men.

They left after an argument that brought police, Knighten said. He said he showed those officers his .45-caliber handgun and his concealed carry permit.

That was about 1 a.m., according to police, who did not give either man's name ina press release posted by WCBI-TV.

On the way to Weems' house, Knighten said, they went into a Huddle House restaurant with a nearly vacant parking lot.

However, he said, they apparently had been followed by more than 20 people.

Knighten, who said he had served with the Air Force in Afghanistan, said he came out of the restroom to find Weems surrounded. "I was trying to defuse the situation," he said.

After some shoving, he said, the security guard told everyone to leave.

Knighten said some people blocked him from leaving with Weems. When he got out, he said, Weems was down and people were kicking him. Knighten said others attacked him, adding "I do remember racial slurs being yelled from the crowd."

Knighten says he has broken bones in his face, a cut over his left eye and a blood clot in his right eye.

Police did not arrive until after the crowd had left, he said.

Police said they were called to the Huddle House about 2 a.m.

"It's not clear whether or not all of the parties were involved in both incidents," the police statement said.

Police Chief Tim Brinkley did not immediately return a call Sunday from The AP.

"This does not appear to be a hate crime," he said in the press release. "We are investigating this as an aggravated assault. It's very early in this investigation but thus far the evidence and statements suggest that a verbal altercation turned physical and somebody got hurt."

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2014/08/mississippi_man_beaten_after_h.html#incart_river
 
You guise is rasis!!! Blacks never do nuthin rong!!! :\

Anyone remember this? I bet they would've done the same thing if he was black, am I right?...

 
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