Bupe Sub, euphoria, tolerance, and all that good stuff.

[mabzie55]

Okay, so I've read a good amount of posts on this forum through Google searches, decided to make an account.

Backround
So I've been on Suboxone for about a year and a half.
Prior to that I was doing just about any opiate I could get my hands on-- mainly heroin, oxycodone, morphine, and hydrocodone depending on what I could get and how much money I had at the time. After a few years of this I had a massive tolerance and a pretty hellish life between the withdrawals, trying to score, and all that fun stuff.

I originally was on a higher dose, which has been lowered over time-- I currently take 4-6mg per day.
When I first started on sub maintenance I was absolutely floored... very fucked up. This super-fucked-up feeling went away after a few weeks and I steadied out, feeling slightly euphoric, no withdrawal... which was great, I actually got a job, went back to school and got my life on track.

About a year after starting on sub through the present, no euphoria. Nothing. I feel a slight "good feeling" for about 15 minutes and then I go back to how I was before the dose. Although I don't have withdrawal, this nothingness is making it very difficult to control these cravings. I haven't relapsed on opiates since I started on sub but I have, many times, taken other drugs such as cannabis to try to get that euphoria. When I was feeling good from the sub I didn't feel the need to smoke weed or anything like that (Which I don't want to do, just to be clear).

Now, I've tried many things, such as:
- Taking benadryl, doxylamine succinate, APAP, chain smoking cigarettes with snus in my mouth-- sometimes all at the same time.
- Putting the sub between my cheek and gums instead of under my tongue to get it on some fresh tissue
- randomly taking double my normal dose

and none of these have really had the desired effect.
I just would so love to be able to smoke a cig and get that good, euphoric feeling again.

Does anyone have any tips here?
If I were to only take 1mg or so for a week and then take the normal amount (Or taking none for a few days, fighting through the w/d, and then taking the normal dose), would that get me there? Is it a tolerance thing?

I'm just really at a loss here. I'm not looking to get super-high nodding or anything, just enough to get me satisfied so I'm not constantly thinking about getting high.

If I took say, 16-20mg when I normally take 4-6, do you think that may work?

Anything at all would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

[batrider]

IME sub is a very strange drug, I had I think a quarter of a 2mg tablet with 3 or 4 hours of bliss a few years back coming off a rough oxy habit, now 2x8mgs is absolutely baseline minus some weird eye shit (left eye becomes impossible to concentrate on a screen with, I see a 'second' screen that moves way off the actual screen and it becomes virtually impossible to look at anything more than a couple feet away). Very minimal use since then, though I have quite a tolerance (or had??) to oxycodone. Got to stay clean for quite a while now, 3 months maybe up to 5 or 6 and if I were to get bupe idk if it would be worth using or trying to maneuver into something more effective. Kratom also doesn't work very well on me, but moral of my short story is more does not necessarily work better. They sell 0.2 mg tablets of subutex ffs, euphoria just may not come anymore for whatever reason.

 

[dirzted]

Although i've had a somewhat similar experience (not super fucked up in the beginning, but still got the euphoric feeling you're talking about), i was and am on a higher dose of 16 mg. Regardless, the "sub-glow" i maintain (enough so that i don't have cravings) by taking 20mg of DXM with my dose 5 times a week with random days off to avoid side effects of the DXM, i started doing this upon taking my dose by way of a liquid solution, which worked so well i was able to increase my sub-glow and at the same time lower my dose. I've done this for about 3 months with little to no decrease in said sub-glow.

Of course, getting to know how to live without artificial means is the end goal, but from a harm reduction standpoint, i honestly see no harm in this- I'm able to increase my motivation, actually get shit done in my life without worrying AT ALL about using in a way that negatively impacts my primary responsibilities... so idk, hard to work that one out in the head of an addict, i know it SHOULDN'T be this way, but shit man what can i say?

 

[The Doc.]

I don't understand why you want to be high from Suboxone by mixing it with whatever meds you can find and not marijuana? Is that dangerous or something?

No you can take 3 4 6 or even 10 times your normal dose and all that will happen is you I'll feel like crap and you won't even feel the first 15 minutes of euphoria anymore. The reason your not feeling anything is because your on a pretty high dose and with the long half life your having each dose carry over into the next day so you when you dose again your only increasing the duration the medicine stays in your body. If you were taking a low dose daily this would not be a problem cause the dose would be mostly worn off before the next dose so when you dose again you get fresh buprenorphine filling up your receptors not this 2-3 day old bupe which has been stuck to your receptors. Low doses mainly convert to a full agonist unlike the large doses which stay a partial agonist. When you take a large dose it will last a long time but you stop getting opiate like effects after 6 hours or so then its simply making you well after that. So when taking a large dose and having it last you 3 +days that bupe is going to stay clung to the receptors and not let anymore buprenorphine entering your body give you any sort of rush.

Taking all this crap isn't going to do anything but damage your body your chasing a high that isn't there. Now you can get a buzz from LOW DOSE (2mgs or under a day) Suboxone but its not a strong euphoria still and you will probably still want a stronger high. I lowered my dose from 8mgs where I felt the same as you describe basically no feeling from dosing down to 2mgs now I'm at 1mg and feel great heroin is a thing of the past and sub's/Mary Jane are all I need to be satisfied. When on a lower dose you feel each dose cause they wear off before the next one so when you dose again you feel a bit of a "rush" if you can call it that. Low dose bupe works better for pain relief/obtaining euphoria because low doses convert to Nor-buprenorphine which is a full agonist unlike plain unconverted buprenorphine which is a partial agonist.Large doses don't leave room for this conversion on the receptors so it stays a partial agonist not giving opiate like effects it'll only trick the mind into thinking your well since the opiate receptors are filled. But like I said this euphoria isn't going to be like heroin or anything, buprenorphine helps my chronic pain and keeps me well everyday so I don't have to buy heroin which is all I need to function and be happy in life but others will want a better high still. My doctor had me going to counsling which helped me quite a bit with anxiety and such without using meds to do so.

Have you tried counseling sessions yet? Most sub docs ask you to go to counsling to help deal with this urge to get high since the physical aspect is not everything. For me when i want H real bad The only thing that helps cravings alongside with sub's is by smoking some pot for me anyways. I don't see anything wrong with cannabis. Another way to obtain that first feel good feeling is to take a day or 2 off from sub to bring your levels back down then you can redose but if you were on a low dose you could dose 2-4 times a day and get this feel good feeling since the small doses wear off before the next one. I take 0.3 mgs every 8 hours or so (3 times a day) and have found this to relive cravings best due to my fast metabolism and need for pain relief(Suboxone is only effective on pain the first 4 -6 hours after its taken).

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

i know this isnt going to be the advice you wana hear but have you ever considered finding a new hobby other than trying to catch a buzz? do you have any hobbies? for example surfing saved my life, of course i still think about using every day of my life, but when you have something you love besides getting high it really makes this fight a little bit easier.

suboxonne gives no buzz. i take less than 1mg every day and it makes me feel physically normal. I mean like my old self, like before I became a junkie. no withdrawals, no high, just feeling normal and i love it.

 

[edgewise1]

A good friend of mine was on sub due to a large oxy habit. At first she got the same high you spoke of but after a bit it went away and she was left feeling normal for a couple of years. One day she asked if I would give her a few tramadol tabs for a leg pain she was having, I did and she took 200mgs. An hour later she has a high that causes her to jump up off the couch from a movie we are watching and start cleaning up. Next day she tells me it lasted well into the evening. She waited a few days, did it again, with the same results. A true happy camper. From there she bought a bottle of 180 online and used them up fairĺy quick getting to using everyday which caused the high to no longer occur. It did help her leg pain which was the original reason to get them in the first place.


Guess the moral is that while tramadol may help with the getting high part, it should not be used everyday for that reason. Soon after all this took place she finally got off of sub only to find out, after several months, that she could now take oxycodone again and get high. Currently she is pregnant still using, though only frequently and in smaller amounts. What a waste of three years.......

 

[mabzie55]

I don't understand why you want to be high from Suboxone by mixing it with whatever meds you can find and not marijuana? Is that dangerous or something?

The thing is, I can take benadryl or something like that every few days to try to get more effects out of the sub, and not go crazy with it taking it every day.

I smoke weed to enhance the effect, and the drug addict thing kicks in and I end up smoking 10-15 times a day, every day-- spending all my money and wasting all my time.

Pot would be great... if it didn't completely consume my life, drain my money, and put strain on my relationship with my g/f.


Just to clarify, I'm not necessarily looking to get a buzz every day, but at least 2-3 times a week would really be great.

 

[mabzie55]

i know this isnt going to be the advice you wana hear but have you ever considered finding a new hobby other than trying to catch a buzz? do you have any hobbies? for example surfing saved my life, of course i still think about using every day of my life, but when you have something you love besides getting high it really makes this fight a little bit easier.

suboxonne gives no buzz. i take less than 1mg every day and it makes me feel physically normal. I mean like my old self, like before I became a junkie. no withdrawals, no high, just feeling normal and i love it.

Yes, I have many hobbies and interests.

Still, I'd like to get something out of the sub.

I realize I'm a drug addict and shouldn't be looking for a buzz, but-- what can I say?

 

[mabzie55]

I guess I'll make a new post, since it won't let me edit my other one?

There's nothing wrong with pot if you can handle it, and i used to smoke all the time for years-- but I go completely overboard with it, smoking 10-15 times a day every day.
I am 100% addicted to cannabis-- and all other aspects of my life suffer when I am smoking. Also I can't smoke a reasonable amount because... well I'm a drug addict, and opiates and pot are my DoCs. When I try to smoke once a day, or once every other day, or even as much as twice a day... that works for about a day, and before you know it I'm back up to 15 times a day, every day. I just can't control my use at all... and when I smoke that much I NEED to be ripped to have any fun. When my dealer gets busted or stops selling, or whatever happens where I can't get any... fuck. that. shit. The boredom of going from constantly getting ripped to having none is fucking unbearable.
Basically pot just really fucks up my life, and becomes the only thing I do. I'd much rather not smoke, and be able to have fun whenever, have some time for relationships, a job, school, etc.

So yeah, no pot for me.

I got sub, and that's the only drug I do besides nicotine, caffeine, and allergy meds (which I do have allergies, but I also abuse sometimes).

I would just like to feel my sub once in awhile.
Maybe I'll try the low dose method.

 

[The Doc.]

Huh well I suppose some people do get addicted to cannabis I was in detox with a guy who was addicted to cannabis actually.
I've smoked pot pretty much at least once daily since starting Suboxone and it seems I can stop without much issue at all as long as I have my opiates I figure im fine physically which is all I really need I tell myself. It helps me sleep so I don't need sleep meds such as trazadone anymore I told my doctor this and she is fine with letting me smoke. But anyways if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you what can we do. I think low dose is your best bet if you get down to 2 mgs you should notice quite a difference between large doses and the smaller ones you could try mixing say benadryl with the low doses here and there for a sleepy like effect with the stimulanting action of buprenorphine, see how that works.

Just keep in mind you can't just go from what your at now and start taking small doses hoping to get high, it won't work since your tolerance needs to be brought down to that level with a slow taper then once stable on the dose you should start to notice more typical opiate like effects with each dose.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

The only way to catch a buzz from subs is to take low doses, or not be on it daily. Didn't have any for week because I'd went on a Oxy binge for a week and took one today and actually got a good glow from it...so LOW doses everyday, add some weed this actually does bring out more of an opiate effect for me, and if I was able to do it daily probly would not relpase so much, OR Benzo's go nice with it also, but just don't go overboard with them, and if your lucky and your Sub doc gives them to ya (alot do others are like no you will die) they tend to even out the Subs and give them what there missing with the craving opiates wise part. But honestly if I could have my sub dose, weed, and 4-6mg of Klonopin or Xanax(high tolerance....been taking benzo's for over ten years, though not daily) I could honestly say I would not feel the need to go out and get other opiates to get that Rush I chase....

 

[dirzted]

The thing is, I can take benadryl or something like that every few days to try to get more effects out of the sub, and not go crazy with it taking it every day.

I smoke weed to enhance the effect, and the drug addict thing kicks in and I end up smoking 10-15 times a day, every day-- spending all my money and wasting all my time.

Pot would be great... if it didn't completely consume my life, drain my money, and put strain on my relationship with my g/f.


Just to clarify, I'm not necessarily looking to get a buzz every day, but at least 2-3 times a week would really be great.

Ya man i totally understand that, im right there with you, again, DXM and using a liquid solution really works wonders. Definitely don't up your dose, although making a solution technically is upping your dose it is only doing so by 1-2mg, and for me i feel like it's 4 mg, hence why i dropped my dose 2mg so i wouldn't create that drastic of an dosage, still, that gives you a little more of a glow and then starting that with DXM makes you able to completely maintain that glow.

Just my experience hopefully all is well, i think it's really good you understand your interactions with cannabis and try to avoid it- just admitting it to yourself can be half the battle with us addicts.

 

[mabzie55]

Benzo's go nice with it also, but just don't go overboard with them, and if your lucky and your Sub doc gives them to ya (alot do others are like no you will die) they tend to even out the Subs and give them what there missing with the craving opiates wise part. But honestly if I could have my sub dose, weed, and 4-6mg of Klonopin or Xanax(high tolerance....been taking benzo's for over ten years, though not daily) I could honestly say I would not feel the need to go out and get other opiates to get that Rush I chase....

I used to be prescribed benzos, and could easily get them again if I wanted to.

But IDK if it's just me, but when I take any kind of benzo (and I've tried all of them), it seemed to cancel out whatever other drugs I was on at the time.
Plenty of people tell me it will help the effects of sub, but for me it does just the opposite. When I smoked pot, I would take some Valium or other benzo-- then proceed to smoke like 5 bowls and not get high at all.. like literally nothing. Then I would just be pissed because I couldn't get high because I took the stupid benzos.
With sub it's not as extreme, but it definitely reduces how much I feel it by A LOT.
Has anyone else had this experience?

and when I wasn't on anything, and I took benzos, it was either:
A. I hardly felt anything because I didn't take enough
B. I took enough to feel it, but 5 hours seemed like 5 minutes and it was all over way too fast... or I wouldn't remember it at all.

I honestly don't understand why people do benzos recreationally... they must have a different brain chemistry than I do or something.

 

[mabzie55]

Ya man i totally understand that, im right there with you, again, DXM and using a liquid solution really works wonders. Definitely don't up your dose, although making a solution technically is upping your dose it is only doing so by 1-2mg, and for me i feel like it's 4 mg, hence why i dropped my dose 2mg so i wouldn't create that drastic of an dosage, still, that gives you a little more of a glow and then starting that with DXM makes you able to completely maintain that glow.

That's a good idea, I forgot about DXM... I remember I used to take DXM with dope or oxy and that worked pretty well.
I will for sure try that with the sub and let you know how it worked out.